SEE is a language... It's English...

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It's not a dumb question, RR. :)

The only thing is your last sentence -- the ones here who use ASL, we still do (myself included, PFH, Shel, etc.), we just don't write in it.
 
It's bad enough when you know that the creator of SEE himself goes to ASL in conversations. He has to constantly remind himself to use SEE. Who woulda have thought after decades of using a certain mode of communication you wouldnt be doing it outta habit?

That in itself speaks volumes.

Oh and if you guys want me to introduce you to him, he lives a mile from me.
 
CSign said:
He has been exposed to English as his "natural" language, or first language. Whichever you prefer to call it.
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resaon language choice people have issues natural have ASL strong &

fail weak is very ESL

But I know experience reason lots of history old past I know reason happy change improve education and deaf mentor support reason ASL! DOn't be late because hard to understand!
 
rockin'robin said:
:ty:...Read ur answer twice, before I understood it....ahh...I did read in a past post someone saying that a lot of deafies (the reason) they didn't post here at AD was beuz of their bad English...(?)....so does that mean they had never mastered SEE?....or that they used ASL for so long, they forgot when/how to use SEE?....
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I never really mastered SEE as it's awkward. When I'm with Deaf, I don't use English as it isn't well suited to sign language.

The reason why I have good English skills is that I read a great deal but even though I have excellent English skills, I can't entirely hide my language delays though they are mild compared to other d/Deaf. That's because I didn't have complete access to language before I was 3. I learned SEE when I was in the sixth grade. I already could read above grade level before I learned SEE. I think I should have learned ASL first - not SEE. I had a lot of unlearning to do.

Some deaf have language delays so they never really caught up with their peers. If they have poor language skills, it will show up in both ASL and English. They won't want to post here. Most Deaf (myself included) do not use SEE at all.

SEE was invented as a way to teach the difference between ASL and English. It never was intended to be used in everyday conservation and it is not well suited to it due to the awkwardness of the signs. It's so awkward to use that even hearing will resort to using PSE which is Pidgin Signed English. PSE is signed in a roughly English syntax without gerunds or suffixes. So much for good English grammar.
 
AlleyCat said:
It's not a dumb question, RR. :)

The only thing is your last sentence -- the ones here who use ASL, we still do (myself included, PFH, Shel, etc.), we just don't write in it.
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Exactly. you said it better than me.
 
jillio said:
Okay, from the first article:

Further, the trajectory established during the emergent literacy stage continues well into the school years both for hearing children (Foster& Miller, 2007; Stanovich, 1992) and for deaf and hard of hearing children(Colin, Magnan, Ecalle, & Leybaert,2007), implicating preschool literacy instruction as a key factor in promoting better literacy outcomes.

Nothing about specificity to oral language or phonological awareness. Applies to preschool instruction in ASL as well.

Bingham studied 60 mothers and their 4-year-old children using various measures of literacy interaction and outcomes and found that the quality of children's home literacy environments and mother-child joint book-reading interactions were both related to the overall development of the children's literacy skills. Similar outcomes are found with the early literacy environment of deaf and hard of hearing children (Aram, Most, & Simon, 2008).

Again, nothing regarding the specificity of English or oral language. Early literacy environment refers to interactions in ASL as well.

When children engage in literacy-rich play, they are incorporating highly contextualized, meaningful, and familiar concepts from stories or from life to support the language used during play. This helps them to understand concepts better and to use language meaningfully. Researchers have identified literacy-rich play as an important component of emergent literacy (Christie & Enz, 1992; Vukelich, 1994).

Notice it says "language" not "English" or "spoken language". Language refers to ASL, as well.

On the one hand, emergent literacy for some, particularly those with deaf parents, develops similarly to that of hearing children (Williams, 2004). These young children engage in rich interactions around books and writing activities. On the other hand, most deaf and hard ofhearing children are at risk of delays in literacy development (Mayer, 2007).

As the result of early languge exposure, not as the result of early English exposure, or early spoken lanuage exposure. Likewise, delays for most come from the lack of early language exposure as in deaf of hearing.

However, Swanwick and Watson (2005) pointed out that there are many similarities between the emergent literacy processes of oral children and signing children. They identified these similarities, as well as the differences, suggesting that early literacy instruction for deaf and hard of hearing children should account for both the similarities and the differences.
Five factors have been identified in the literature (see review) as being critical to emergent literacy: parent involvement, a language-rich environment, storybook reading, a supportive classroom environment, and explicit instruction.

Again, nothing to indicate dependency on oral language or English to achieve the environment necessary to emergent literacy.

Further research is needed to determine the contribution that each of these makes to the overall emergent literacy process. Most likely this involves a combination of environmental factors, typical instructional factors, and a set of instructional factors unique to the classrooms of children who are deaf or hard of hearing.

And, once again,nothing specific to oral language or English exposure.

Conner, C., Easterbrooks,S. and Lederberg, A. (2010). Contributions of the emergent litercy environment to literacy outcomes for young children who are deaf. American Annals of the Deaf. 155(4).

Discuss away.

Please note that this research is only a year old. It was done using empirical methods. This goes right back to what I stated in post 725.
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Wow. If this doesn't make a strong case for ASL, I don't know what will.
I will have to read and study the article when I have time. I don't think I will be much surprised by what I find, really.
 
I have to thank everyone in this thread... Today I finally realized the exact reason I never liked reading. :)
 
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GrendelQ said:
Mountain Man said:
There essentially is: Deaf children should be immersed in a sign language rich environment from as early an age as possible. The only people insisting that there's no "magic formula" are those who think that learning a spoken language should be a priority.
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If you take a look at the research, even just this particular article, you'll see that -- to Marschark's admitted surprise -- even those Deaf of Deaf fluent ASL users in signed instruction environments are significantly underperforming.
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from what i understand, the issue is trying to read and write a language that you do not know. ASL using children do not know English, so they have to learn an entirely new and different language to read and write. Literacy is linked to the ability to use (and know) english for face to face communication. Without that reading and writing are hugely difficult and that is why the "4th grade" barrier remains.
 
faire_jour said:
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from what i understand, the issue is trying to read and write a language that you do not know. ASL using children do not know English, so they have to learn an entirely new and different language to read and write. Literacy is linked to the ability to use (and know) english for face to face communication. Without that reading and writing are hugely difficult and that is why the "4th grade" barrier remains.
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Ah, they don't?

And look at the majority of the 70's/80's children.... They were SEE users. How'd that work out?
 
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CSign said:
shel90 said:
How does one acquire language naturally if the language being exposed to them is a made up one?
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He has been exposed to English as his "natural" language, or first language. Whichever you prefer to call it.
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in my opinon alone, SEE would be "filling in the gaps". The child would have access to English both visually and tom some extent, through audition.
 
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Mountain Man said:
CSign said:
He has been exposed to English as his "natural" language, or first language. Whichever you prefer to call it.
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SEE is not a natural language no matter what BS the SEE Center has been feeding you. You need to talk with some actual linguists rather than listening to a group trying to promote their services through what I have to assume is deceptive marketing.
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English certainly is.
 
Oh GAWD...

Deaf children of Deaf parents already proved that stupid myth wrong many times over.

Same with deaf people in the 19th century.

What more proof do you want?
 
shel90 said:
Oh GAWD...

Deaf children of Deaf parents already proved that stupid myth wrong many times over.

Same with deaf people in the 19th century.

What more proof do you want?
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I think we could provide mountains of proof till we're blue in the face and we'd s still get discounted. :P
 
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shel90 said:
Oh GAWD...

Deaf children of Deaf parents already proved that stupid myth wrong many times over.

Same with deaf people in the 19th century.

What more proof do you want?
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it isn't a myth. Deaf of Deaf still struggle with reading. The myth is that ASL solves all the literacy issues.
 
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posts from hell said:
faire_jour said:
Wirelessly posted



in my opinon alone, SEE would be "filling in the gaps". The child would have access to English both visually and tom some extent, through audition.
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Thank god its just your opinion.
faire_jour said:
Wirelessly posted



English certainly is.
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So is ASL. :cool2:
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yep. I chose ASL as my child's first language but others have chosen English.
 
ASL and English are entirely 2 different languages. One doesn't have to solve the other. I am 40 years old, I grew up with both English and ASL. I don't see myself having much of a literacy issue.
 
AlleyCat said:
ASL and English are entirely 2 different languages. One doesn't have to solve the other. I am 40 years old, I grew up with both English and ASL. I don't see myself having much of a literacy issue.
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I am sorry girl...your ENGLISH SUCKS!!!


J/K :hug:
 
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