School for the Deaf denies deaf child with Down Syndrome placement

[CSign]

If you believe that due process is against the contract school and not the home school district, then obviously you don't know exactly what you are doing.

Who brought you in to help this family?

Many people are capable of helping and making a difference, as long as what they are doing is truly helpful. It would appear that you are running on pure emotion and some highly held principle. Unfortunately, the real world of educational placement does not work that way. It has to be a battle that is fought with fact, not emotion. You have no basis, at least none that is demonstrated to date, for instance to claim that deafness is the primary disability. You do not have the credentials to make that determination. So, just because you think that it is that way doesn't mean that it will count for a hill of beans in a court of law, or a due process hearing. Unfortunately, too many
well meaning people end up making a mess of things.

Would you like me to produce her IEP which clearly states primary category of eligibility is deafness? Would you like me to post her audiogram? How about her assessments and reports? Would that be sufficient proof for you?

Am I not qualified to read and understand what an IEP says? Given that I have some mastery of the English language, I'd say I'm qualified to read and comprehend.

I fully grasp the concepts regarding educational placement, Least Restrictive Environment, educational benefit, FAPE etc. I get it. You can say I don't understand until your eyes turn blue- but it won't make it so. My position is based on facts, laws, and by a solid moral compass. I absolutely will continue fighting the good fight, for the benefit of these children. In terms of making a "mess of things" well, sure. I'm making a mess of things for the school. I'm helping the family call them out on a systemic level of discrimination.

The family and the school she attends both contacted me for help with the situation, and that's exactly what I've done. This isn't coming from a place of emotion. This is coming from the reality of the situation.

 

[CSign]

Such a ridiculous attitude.

How, exactly is my attitude ridiculous? Because I'm optimistic? I prefer to see the glass as half full, but I am realistic at the same time. I shared the same confidence when I went to battle with our home school district, and we ultimately got everything we were looking for, for our son. I'm confident the same will be true in this situation.

 

[jillio]

Would you like me to produce her IEP which clearly states primary category of eligibility is deafness? Would you like me to post her audiogram? How about her assessments and reports? Would that be sufficient proof for you?

Am I not qualified to read and understand what an IEP says? Given that I have some mastery of the English language, I'd say I'm qualified to read and comprehend.

I fully grasp the concepts regarding educational placement, Least Restrictive Environment, educational benefit, FAPE etc. I get it. You can say I don't understand until your eyes turn blue- but it won't make it so. My position is based on facts, laws, and by a solid moral compass. I absolutely will continue fighting the good fight, for the benefit of these children. In terms of making a "mess of things" well, sure. I'm making a mess of things for the school. I'm helping the family call them out on a systemic level of discrimination.

The family and the school she attends both contacted me for help with the situation, and that's exactly what I've done. This isn't coming from a place of emotion. This is coming from the reality of the situation.

The school she attends? And why would they do that? Again, you have indicated no credentials, and a great deal of misunderstanding of the way the process placement works. Are you simply a volunteer sort of mentor or something?

Yeah, why don't you post all of the above?:roll: However, given that you won't even say what school this is that has so drastically discriminated against this child, I don't imagine we'll be seeing anything else that can support your position.

 

[jillio]

How, exactly is my attitude ridiculous? Because I'm optimistic? I prefer to see the glass as half full, but I am realistic at the same time. I shared the same confidence when I went to battle with our home school district, and we ultimately got everything we were looking for, for our son. I'm confident the same will be true in this situation.

That is the problem. You don't see it. Your son also has Down's Syndrome? And was refused placement at a school for the deaf? But aren't you the one that believes signed English should be used rather than ASL?

 

[deafdyke]

In defense of CSign, it IS very possible that the student has a level of functioning that means they could fit in at the school. And we do have to admit that placement at schools for the deaf IS very political. We don't know the level of mental functioning the student has. That's really what this whole thread is about.

n the first place since ASL is used so much in classrooms for kids with disabilities that have low verbal abilities in addition. The DS kids don't need to be deaf to benefit from ASL. So I am actually quite certain that there is a program like that in such a high population state.

And if she is very low functioning, she would probably benefit more in a classroom with a signing aid even if every student did not use ASL.

Throw a low functioning kid into a classroom that is full of deaf kids with normal intelligence, and she is just going to sink to the bottom.

Actually reword that. A lot of mild MR kids (especially the ones who are slow learners or who function more like a kid with nereological impairment/scattered abilties) can benifit from being in a regular class, especially in elementary school. Older grades, it's different....they do need a seperate program (ie life skills and functional academics)
But CSign, you stated that this student has less then 200 signs. How old is she? Unless she is a preschooler, or a kindergartener that does indicate a low level of functioning......in which case she might be better served in a SH program that concentrates on communication skills, which means signs used in an alternative and augmentive communcation fashion as well as other AAC methods.

 

[deafdyke]

Oh and CSign, I do understand that cases like this need to be considered on a case by case basis if the mental disabilty is moderate or below. Nobody really has any problems with kids with mild MR or even mild/moderate MR attending a Deaf School.
But what I think you may not understand, is that just b/c a deaf school offers special needs programming, it's not going to serve all levels of MR.
Kids with moderate and below MR tend to need SH programming. I know of a lot of kids who were deaf and autistic or deaf and significently MR who started out in Dhh programs/schools. They couldn't be served well in a dhh program. The programming for dhh or even mild moderate MR (or other disabilties) was basicly over their heads. They then got transferred to SH programs, which then helped them a lot more.
Then again, I'm open to the possibilty that the student might be actually smarter then everyone thinks, and if they get immersied in an ASL enviroment, they could gain a LOT of language.
You know........maybe a compromise might be to have the student trial the special needs program if they're one of those ambigious students.

 

[CSign]

So, just to be clear... Some of you believe a deaf child who also has a cognitive disability don't think they are entitled to peers and staff with whom they can communicate with? That's essentially what many of you have said, so I want to be sure I'm clear. So deaf and Autism need not apply? How about deaf kids with CP? Are they not welcome either? Going by some of the responses here, I'm not surprised about the attitude of the school for the deaf.

It's amazing to me, how some of you feel that people with secondary disabilities don't belong. It's really sad actually. A secondary disability doesn't change the fact that they are deaf, and access information visually through sign language. They have just as much a right to communicate as those "Vanilla Deaf.".

It seems that some people are doing the same thing to multi-"handicapped" individuals, as was done to the d/Deaf in the past. Essentially saying they are less than, and incapable. Unbelievable.

 

[CSign]

The school she attends? And why would they do that? Again, you have indicated no credentials, and a great deal of misunderstanding of the way the process placement works. Are you simply a volunteer sort of mentor or something?

Yeah, why don't you post all of the above?:roll: However, given that you won't even say what school this is that has so drastically discriminated against this child, I don't imagine we'll be seeing anything else that can support your position.

I don't need to indicate or prove anything to you Jillio. The facts anyone on this forum needs to know have been posted.

Yeah right, like I'd actually post someone's private information, when I wouldn't even provide my own.

Yes, I've been brought in as a "volunteer sort of mentor or something."

 

[CSign]

That is the problem. You don't see it. Your son also has Down's Syndrome? And was refused placement at a school for the deaf? But aren't you the one that believes signed English should be used rather than ASL?

Way to twist the facts. Good job.

 

[Bottesini]

So, just to be clear... Some of you believe a deaf child who also has a cognitive disability don't think they are entitled to peers and staff with whom they can communicate with? That's essentially what many of you have said, so I want to be sure I'm clear. So deaf and Autism need not apply? How about deaf kids with CP? Are they not welcome either? Going by some of the responses here, I'm not surprised about the attitude of the school for the deaf.

It's amazing to me, how some of you feel that people with secondary disabilities don't belong. It's really sad actually. A secondary disability doesn't change the fact that they are deaf, and access information visually through sign language. They have just as much a right to communicate as those "Vanilla Deaf.".

It seems that some people are doing the same thing to multi-"handicapped" individuals, as was done to the d/Deaf in the past. Essentially saying they are less than, and incapable. Unbelievable.

Just so you know, I am not Vanilla Deaf. And I told you quite succinctly what will happen to her.

If you are more concerned with being righteous than with the emotional and educational well being of the child, just continue on.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Yeppers. Most do these days. Some simply don't. And the ones that don't are not equipped to handle the needs of students with special needs. They are equipped to handle the needs of deaf students without special needs.

No crap. My local School for the Deaf while I was growing up didn't have the accommodations for the Deafblind. If mother wanted to send me to a Deaf school, it would have to be two provinces away-- which I did attend until the cost-benefit of sending me there dwindled.

 

[CSign]

Just so you know, I am not Vanilla Deaf. And I told you quite succinctly what will happen to her.

If you are more concerned with being righteous than with the emotional and educational well being of the child, just continue on.

I know you're not "Vanilla Deaf." Bullying happens everywhere, and shouldn't be tolerated.

Were you in a school for the deaf, or were you in a class with kids who had other disabilities? You don't agree, that it's important to have people to communicate with?

I'm not being righteous, and my number one concern is the well being of this child.

 

[Bottesini]

I know you're not "Vanilla Deaf." Bullying happens everywhere, and shouldn't be tolerated.

Were you in a school for the deaf, or were you in a class with kids who had other disabilities? You don't agree, that it's important to have people to communicate with?

I'm not being righteous, and my number one concern is the well being of this child.

Not a school for the deaf. Elementary had multiple disabilities in one special public school. Junior high on mainstream.

I think it is more important to get the right placement where one can get as much education as can be absorbed and fit in.

 

[CSign]

Not a school for the deaf. Elementary had multiple disabilities in one special public school. Junior high on mainstream.

I think it is more important to get the right placement where one can get as much education as can be absorbed and fit in.

I agree with you.

 

[jillio]

In defense of CSign, it IS very possible that the student has a level of functioning that means they could fit in at the school. And we do have to admit that placement at schools for the deaf IS very political. We don't know the level of mental functioning the student has. That's really what this whole thread is about.
Actually reword that. A lot of mild MR kids (especially the ones who are slow learners or who function more like a kid with nereological impairment/scattered abilties) can benifit from being in a regular class, especially in elementary school. Older grades, it's different....they do need a seperate program (ie life skills and functional academics)
But CSign, you stated that this student has less then 200 signs. How old is she? Unless she is a preschooler, or a kindergartener that does indicate a low level of functioning......in which case she might be better served in a SH program that concentrates on communication skills, which means signs used in an alternative and augmentive communcation fashion as well as other AAC methods.

Evidently, after an evaluation of social, language, and academic functioning, it was decided by the school that she did qualify for placement. But since CSign won't even tell us what school she is talking about, no one can even check to see if they have a program to accomodate secondary disabilities.

 

[jillio]

Not a school for the deaf. Elementary had multiple disabilities in one special public school. Junior high on mainstream.

I think it is more important to get the right placement where one can get as much education as can be absorbed and fit in.

Absolutely. And who is better to make the decision whether a particular student will fit a program than those educated and trained to make those decisions? A placement just to satisfy a parent or someone outside the family should never, ever be made. That is why we have so many mismatched placements in deaf ed today. And why the students pay the ultimate price.

 

[jillio]

I agree with you.

It appears that you misunderstood the meaning in Bott's post.

 

[shel90]

So, just to be clear... Some of you believe a deaf child who also has a cognitive disability don't think they are entitled to peers and staff with whom they can communicate with? That's essentially what many of you have said, so I want to be sure I'm clear. So deaf and Autism need not apply? How about deaf kids with CP? Are they not welcome either? Going by some of the responses here, I'm not surprised about the attitude of the school for the deaf.

It's amazing to me, how some of you feel that people with secondary disabilities don't belong. It's really sad actually. A secondary disability doesn't change the fact that they are deaf, and access information visually through sign language. They have just as much a right to communicate as those "Vanilla Deaf.".

It seems that some people are doing the same thing to multi-"handicapped" individuals, as was done to the d/Deaf in the past. Essentially saying they are less than, and incapable. Unbelievable.

Geez, you are blaming us and the Deaf community for the the non-existence attitude of the deaf school? It is not a personal thing...it is all politics and we know how crappy politics can be but we are realistic with how unfair the real world works. It has nothing to do with elism from the Deaf community or the Deaf school. We dont know WHAT policies are set in forth with that school and what resources the school has. We ARE concerned that the child's needs gets adequently met and if a school doesnt have the staff nor the resources to meet the cognitive needs, then it would do the child no good to sit in a classroom full of children who are performing on academic level without any extra support and let her drown? Unless she is high functioning and if so, then why do you say that her Down Syndrome is another disability? If she is high functioning then there should have not been any mention of her Down Syndrome in the first place. By mentioning it is apparent the child needs additional support. If the school doesnt have the funds nor the means to support that, then the child is the one who suffers.

Now, if the school does have aprogram for children like her and denied this child placement, then like many of us have said...appeal.

The problem is that many of us dont have all the factors involved that lead to this decision regarding this child's placement so we are just relying on the little bits of information you have shared.

 

[shel90]

I know you're not "Vanilla Deaf." Bullying happens everywhere, and shouldn't be tolerated.

Were you in a school for the deaf, or were you in a class with kids who had other disabilities? You don't agree, that it's important to have people to communicate with?

I'm not being righteous, and my number one concern is the well being of this child.

I was mainstreamed with hearing kids...there were no hearing children with Down's Syndrome in any of my hearing classes from preK to senior year in high school. Did that mean that the hearing DS kids were discriminated against by not attending my school?

 

[deafdyke]

Some of you believe a deaf child who also has a cognitive disability don't think they are entitled to peers and staff with whom they can communicate with? That's essentially what many of you have said, so I want to be sure I'm clear. So deaf and Autism need not apply? How about deaf kids with CP? Are they not welcome either? Going by some of the responses here, I'm not surprised about the attitude of the school for the deaf.

No nobody is saying that. As a matter of fact virtually ALL Deaf Schools had a strong MR population back in the 80's. We are saying that there is a HUGE difference between mild/moderate MR and more severe MR. Kids with more severe MR (and deafness) might be better off in a severely handicapped classroom. When you get into the more severe MR they are on the level of a toddler, and it's also more of a secondary disabilty.
Like a SH kid's IEP is something like " so and so will use a switch or PECS or will sight read 10 words (for the higher functioning ones)