Requirement? Pass a Urine Test Before Getting Public Assistance?

Good point there. One thing.... how are they going to come up with more money for the tests? Never mind.. they can get more money when they drop the drug users. What about those false positive test? I know that eating poppy seed can cause the test to come up postive.
I don't know about the tests that employees get but I know the procedure that the military used for urine tests. If the first test was positive, a second test was scheduled to verify the first one. One positive test was not enough to be conclusive. Also, prior to being tested, we were required to fill out a form that listed all meds that we were taking.
 
That's the way the tests administered by the courts are set up, too. The quality of the professionals and labs are really important to accurate results. I can only imagine what would come out of mediocre labs processing high volume tests. There are also issues with chain of custody. You want to know that the results are tied to a particular person's sample.

In the military, soldiers are under a completely different system of law. A soldier is not under civilian law once she enlists. Someone who is given weapons should be clean and sober.

Reba, did they test routinely? How was the quality of testing? I imagine that testing is even more important now that enlistment standards are less stringent.

How easy is it to get drugs on a military base? Probably not very hard in Afghanistan. Cash crop there.
 
...In the military, soldiers are under a completely different system of law. A soldier is not under civilian law once she enlists. Someone who is given weapons should be clean and sober.

Reba, did they test routinely?
In general, testing was done randomly. That is, we never knew when it would happen ahead of time, and we never knew which numbers would be picked that day. They went by the last digit in your SSN. For example, at morning quarters it would be announced that all people with a SSN ending in 7 had to report to room such-and-such for urine testing. We went to the room to fill out the paperwork, and then one at a time go with an observer to the restroom.

How was the quality of testing? I imagine that testing is even more important now that enlistment standards are less stringent.
Chain of custody was very important. Any little flaw in the procedure and the test results were thrown out. When there was a question about the results, it was always ruled in favor of the military member.

I don't know how it is today.

How easy is it to get drugs on a military base? Probably not very hard in Afghanistan. Cash crop there.
I don't know about today. I'll have to ask around. When I first served in the early 70's drug use was rampant and in the open, especially weed. People stood around outside their barracks smoking pot and offering it to passersby. We were coached to lie on the forms that we filled out about drug use.

After Vietnam the military got harsh about drug use. Once urine testing was perfected it seemed to drop. Also, the draft ended so the all-voluntary military attracted people who wanted to be there and didn't need drugs to escape military life. They were more career oriented and didn't want to jeopardize their careers.

When I was a Chief, one of my duties was to observe female officers during the urine test. Believe me, it's no more fun observing than being observed. Ugh!
 
I don't know about the tests that employees get but I know the procedure that the military used for urine tests. If the first test was positive, a second test was scheduled to verify the first one. One positive test was not enough to be conclusive. Also, prior to being tested, we were required to fill out a form that listed all meds that we were taking.
When I was under the "random testing" procedure, a positive reading was all it took. If you wanted to dispute the findings, they retested, using the same urine supplied during the prior test. We made various things for many different airlines, so we fell under FAA rules. No doubt a different standard. This was prior to 9/11/2001.
When I was a Chief, one of my duties was to observe female officers during the urine test. Believe me, it's no more fun observing than being observed. Ugh!
When we gave samples, we could turn away from the observer. Are you saying they had to face you? I would be in there for days! It took a long time before even my wife could watch me go.
 
I forgot about the watching part! How embarrassing for all parties involved. :Oops:
 
When I was under the "random testing" procedure, a positive reading was all it took. If you wanted to dispute the findings, they retested, using the same urine supplied during the prior test. We made various things for many different airlines, so we fell under FAA rules. No doubt a different standard. This was prior to 9/11/2001.
In the Navy, a retest meant new urine sample.

After my previous post, I confirmed my information with Hubby who was a Navy DAPA. His experience was the same as mine.

Hubby told me that the big emphasis now is on DUIs. Two DUIs and you get kicked out.

When we gave samples, we could turn away from the observer. Are you saying they had to face you? I would be in there for days! It took a long time before even my wife could watch me go.
Depends on your sex. ;)

Men face the wall when urinating, so the observer stands behind them, a little bit to the side.

Women urinate sitting down, facing the stall door, so the observer stands facing them with the stall door open.

The rule is, once the person gets the empty cup and goes to the stall, they don't leave until "positive flow" is observed and the cup is filled enough to test. Yes, some people take a lllllooooonnnnngggg time but they can't leave.

It's no picnic for the observer either but we don't hassle the person--we stay patient.
 
I forgot about the watching part! How embarrassing for all parties involved. :Oops:

Yes, and unlike most other things, you are forced to prove your innocence through this procedure. There is no "innocent until proven guilty" in the drug testing business.
 
In the Navy, a retest meant new urine sample.

Yes, but if someone used a substance other than marijuana, they could just force themselves to be clean for a day or two to pass. Marijuana traces take weeks to evacuate from a body.


The rule is, once the person gets the empty cup and goes to the stall, they don't leave until "positive flow" is observed and the cup is filled enough to test. Yes, some people take a lllllooooonnnnngggg time but they can't leave.

It's no picnic for the observer either but we don't hassle the person--we stay patient.
Yes, I am aware of that. Glad I can face away, but it still is no picnic for me. I know they take the temperature right away to assure it came from me, not a baggie or bottle. Thanks for your input from the other side of the testing procedure.
 
Yes, but if someone used a substance other than marijuana, they could just force themselves to be clean for a day or two to pass. Marijuana traces take weeks to evacuate from a body....
The "donor" isn't told when the retest will be.
 
Won't be a blood test be better? No way I could go if someone is watching me. You can't fake the blood test if someone else is doing all the blood-drawing.
 
Won't be a blood test be better? No way I could go if someone is watching me. You can't fake the blood test if someone else is doing all the blood-drawing.
Blood testing would require more of a medically trained staff. There is not as much experience needed to take a urine sample. Just follow procedures. Added cost would be passed on the the companies that have the subjects that are tested. That would end up being passed to the consumer. There is also a hair follicle test. No way to mask usage, and they can test backwards about 6 months. Not sure why there are not more tests done this way. They do not need hair from the head, for anyone that is bald. Any body hair will work.
 
good question but now probably most jobs requires all to take drug test before start with new job but lucky not me cuz it started after I joined longs drugstore (now cvs pharamcy) :) so.. I think it's good that they want to make sure people who are on drugs to take urine test if they fail then they can't see $$ in their hand :) but doesn't happen here in california but only happen for people who are on probation that is also requirement tho :)
 
In my county service, they don't require a urine test based on application if the person marked in the checkbox "Has you been on the criminals or jailed", they would denied on applicants as Public Assistance frauds..

I never have any criminals in the past.
 
........................... I do, on the other hand, have a problem with helping someonesitting on their ass - doing drugs, while I work. . . . Can you imagine how much money each state would save if people
had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance
check?
Oh man.... I feel your pain brother but the reality is that's how the system works. I like how you think though. I wonder how many people on welfare would fail the drug test.
 
Far as I am concerned, as long you are on welfare-- you are at the mercy of the government. And they should, so I support the drug-test concept.

However the whole "government controls us" is why I am planning to turn off the lightbulb permanently, so to speak, or be homeless rather than resorting to disability welfare. So far I am independent. :)

i disagree, consider this, the rich owns businesses and reaping huge benefits , chances are they are not immune to bordom so resourcing to drugs. People on welfare are very likely to be depressed, wallowing in the land of hopelessness, resource to drugs for temporary escape that i cant blame them for feeling like this. Now also consider cannabis laws, it is stupid, backwards and hypocriticial. Although I dont use drugs, not even pot (purely my choice that i prefer to have clear mind for study) i still emphasise with people who enjoy it (not chronicially that's another story - that would be akin to alcoholics, so in a sense 'cannibis-holics' (for lack fo better word just descriptive) is a problem) I still believe it should be legalised for many reasons -too much to mention in this post.

now back to drug testing i dont like it its a violation to peoples' rights to privacy, but Id say its ok for 'work-related hazards using heavy dangerous machinarys - a too relaxed mind can become a problem due to sloppy concern aorund safety. this would be as far as i'd go.

just my opinion.

back to welfare, I do not believe government should have rights to control peoples lives to this extent, it is bordering dangerously close to facism.
 
Facism! Didn't know people are racist toward faces!

Grummer, 90% of my family is on disability welfare in one way or another. I have been cursed by them because I am the only one, apart from my mom (who came from a family of 7-- and has over 16 aunts and uncles) and sister, who manage to stay off of disability welfare. To them, I am more "disabled" than they are considering I am deaf, blind, has "ADD," and obtained nerve damage to the left hand-- so they are bitter that I can find employment while they "can't" even though they are "healthier" than I am.

Ironically, the ones that got off of welfare only found jobs once the people in charge of the welfare program started testing them for drugs as part of their health check-ups to see if they are still eligible for disability. So you can see why I am in favour of this.

Now if you meant my opinion is too close to the pitfalls of industrial Europe in the 1800s, then it would be more accurate.

Addendum: It is also the reason why I know about the hard drugs as well... from my extended family. :\
 
...back to welfare, I do not believe government should have rights to control peoples lives to this extent, it is bordering dangerously close to facism.
I think most of the reason tax payers complain about welfare recipients wasting their money on drugs and alcohol is because it is the tax payers' money that supports welfare. Most people don't really care how others live but they do care how their tax money is spent.

The truth is, any time a person or group accepts government money, there are strings attached. If a person or group doesn't want to be "controlled" by government they have to turn down that money. It might be a hard choice but that's it.
 
Facism! Didn't know people are racist toward faces!

Grummer, 90% of my family is on disability welfare in one way or another. I have been cursed by them because I am the only one, apart from my mom (who came from a family of 7-- and has over 16 aunts and uncles) and sister, who manage to stay off of disability welfare. To them, I am more "disabled" than they are considering I am deaf, blind, has "ADD," and obtained nerve damage to the left hand-- so they are bitter that I can find employment while they "can't" even though they are "healthier" than I am.

Ironically, the ones that got off of welfare only found jobs once the people in charge of the welfare program started testing them for drugs as part of their health check-ups to see if they are still eligible for disability. So you can see why I am in favour of this.

Now if you meant my opinion is too close to the pitfalls of industrial Europe in the 1800s, then it would be more accurate.

Addendum: It is also the reason why I know about the hard drugs as well... from my extended family. :\

Cheers and Kudos to YOU!.....
 
Back
Top