Religious psychosis

[nightcrickets]

no, not that, I am used to people disagreeing with me. I have been to alot message board. But time again and again, I hear the same old stuff..."you english is horrible" "you english is this and that" you get sick of hearing it too. I just didn't think this would come from a deaf board.

 

[christlovedeaf]

no, not that, I am used to people disagreeing with me. I have been to alot message board. But time again and again, I hear the same old stuff..."you english is horrible" "you english is this and that" you get sick of hearing it too. I just didn't think this would come from a deaf board.

Don't worry about them, even when I say some good posting but twisting by thinking I say one thing than the other , judgemental and hateful response by some bec of my belief and name calling. I keep my foot on the ground. I'm with you, nightcrickets. Don't worry about them. It's just their thoughtless attitudes. I've been timidating by alot numerous of times. I know it is very painful circumstances. Stick with me and some others who you have no problem with. SMILE and HUGS

 

[Yiffzer]

I have learned my lesson not to write again. Time and time again, people make comments about my writing.

Night Cricket, I'm sorry if I've been critical. I did not appreciate how much sense your writing lacked:

Yiffzer: Even some Christians think there is no hell. It doesn't matter what people say. Follow the holy books and no one else's words. I don't know why you haven't realized that by now.

Night Cricket: who says I don't? You do know that I am Independent FundaMENTAL baptist, don't you?

I don't what? I tried to understand what you're trying to say. It just doesn't work out. Your English is poor and it is hard for me to understand your point. Also being "independent fundamental baptist" has nothing to do with the topic. Which is why I've been abrupt to say:

Yiffzer: I don't care what reasoning you give me, your responses tell me otherwise.

Night Cricket: do you usually jump to a conclusion like that? You are absolutely wrong.

You lost me again with this. Wrong about what? Jump to conclusions how? There is much I don't understand of you. Hopefully you can understand where I'm coming from.

And Jordan, please don't speak for me. Thanks.

 

[Angel]

no, not that, I am used to people disagreeing with me. I have been to alot message board. But time again and again, I hear the same old stuff..."you english is horrible" "you english is this and that" you get sick of hearing it too. I just didn't think this would come from a deaf board.

I understand you perfectly fine, beside the moderators and the owner of AD made it perfectly clear that no one makes fun of those who have English or grammar plms, if you feel someone is picking on you, just press the report button hon....ignore those fools ..

 

[christlovedeaf]

I understand you perfectly fine, beside the moderators and the owner of AD made it perfectly clear that no one makes fun of those who have English or grammar plms, if you feel someone is picking on you, just press the report button hon....ignore those fools ..

I second that, winks

 

[xentar]

You say that Satan does not exist and that were no proof to support the concept of Satan.
It's your turn: prove that Satan does not exist.
The same with God: prove God does not exist.

You are trying to resort to "you cannot prove a negative" fallacy. You made that claim and you HAVE to prove it. The burden is ON you, not me.

Speaking of proof and evidence I'll jump in and say that there is no scientific evidence indicating that God exists.

• God has never left any physical evidence of his existence on earth.
  
• None of Jesus' "miracles" left any physical evidence either.
  
• God has never spoken to modern man, for example by taking over all the television stations and broadcasting a rational message to everyone.
  
• The resurrected Jesus has never appeared to anyone.
  
• The Bible we have is provably incorrect and is obviously the work of primitive men rather than God.
  
• When we analyze prayer with statistics, we find no evidence that God is "answering prayers."
  
• Huge, amazing atrocities like the Holocaust and AIDS occur without any response from God.
  
• And so on…

If we had scientific proof of God's existence, we would talk about the "science of God" rather than "faith in God".

If we had scientific proof of God's existence, the study of God would be a scientific endeavor rather than a theological one.

If we had scientific proof of God's existence, all religious people would be aligning on the God that had been scientifically proven to exist. Instead there are thousands of gods and religions.

 

[Yiffzer]

God uses the instrument of faith, not scientific evidence. Again, science can not deny God's existence nor prove God's existence. Considering God is outside of the universe, we can not do anything to test the presence of God. The only choice we have is to believe in such a thing or not. Then again, it is precisely that which would determine our final destination, if God were to be true.

Are you familiar with Descartes' Evil Demon argument? It's somewhat applicable to this type of argument.

# God has never left any physical evidence of his existence on earth.

Faith.

# None of Jesus' "miracles" left any physical evidence either.

Such as healing a blind man? Why would that leave any physical evidence?

# God has never spoken to modern man, for example by taking over all the television stations and broadcasting a rational message to everyone.

Why would He? If He did, everyone would believe in God. That defeats the purpose.

"Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." (Luke 13:23-4)

# The resurrected Jesus has never appeared to anyone.

Apparently, we're not that close to the Day of Judgment.

# The Bible we have is provably incorrect and is obviously the work of primitive men rather than God.

Perhaps the original Bible was true but "visions" by Paul and such changed the entire works of it.

# When we analyze prayer with statistics, we find no evidence that God is "answering prayers."

Faith.

# Huge, amazing atrocities like the Holocaust and AIDS occur without any response from God.

Explained in the other thread, we would need these things to restore balance. Many claim that the Holocaust occurred because the Jews were unfaithful. AIDS are done to show the sign of homosexuality being a sin, etc. But I admit, I am ignorant of how AIDS spread (also we do not know how it started).

 

[VamPyroX]

God uses the instrument of faith, not scientific evidence. Again, science can not deny God's existence nor prove God's existence. Considering God is outside of the universe, we can not do anything to test the presence of God. The only choice we have is to believe in such a thing or not. Then again, it is precisely that which would determine our final destination, if God were to be true.

Are you familiar with Descartes' Evil Demon argument? It's somewhat applicable to this type of argument.

# God has never left any physical evidence of his existence on earth.

Faith.

# None of Jesus' "miracles" left any physical evidence either.

Such as healing a blind man? Why would that leave any physical evidence?

# God has never spoken to modern man, for example by taking over all the television stations and broadcasting a rational message to everyone.

Why would He? If He did, everyone would believe in God. That defeats the purpose.

"Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." (Luke 13:23-4)

# The resurrected Jesus has never appeared to anyone.

Apparently, we're not that close to the Day of Judgment.

# The Bible we have is provably incorrect and is obviously the work of primitive men rather than God.

Perhaps the original Bible was true but "visions" by Paul and such changed the entire works of it.

# When we analyze prayer with statistics, we find no evidence that God is "answering prayers."

Faith.

# Huge, amazing atrocities like the Holocaust and AIDS occur without any response from God.

Explained in the other thread, we would need these things to restore balance. Many claim that the Holocaust occurred because the Jews were unfaithful. AIDS are done to show the sign of homosexuality being a sin, etc. But I admit, I am ignorant of how AIDS spread (also we do not know how it started).

They didn't have the technology to find evidence.

 

[xentar]

God uses the instrument of faith, not scientific evidence.

That's actually a whole 'nother debate, but for now I'll stick with this:

# God has never spoken to modern man, for example by taking over all the television stations and broadcasting a rational message to everyone.

Why would He? If He did, everyone would believe in God. That defeats the purpose.

"Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." (Luke 13:23-4)

I see you quoted the scripture there, but I still have to ask though. Could you be a little bit more specific as to what you mean when you wrote the word 'purpose'?

Are you referring to the fact that God must remain a hidden God? (if God spoke, that would take away your free will to believe in him)

Or did you mean something else with the quoted scripture?

 

[Reba]

[*]The resurrected Jesus has never appeared to anyone.

I Corinthians 15
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

If we had scientific proof of God's existence, all religious people would be aligning on the God that had been scientifically proven to exist. Instead there are thousands of gods and religions.

Not all people are "religious" or even spiritual.

Even if people accepted the fact that God existed, that doesn't mean they would trust, worship, and obey Him (even Satan believes that God exists, but Satan doesn't believe in God).

 

[xentar]

I Corinthians 15
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

Of course you would use the bible as evident but let's put the bible down for a second. Ask yourself, can anyone outside of the bible verify existance of james, or any of the apostles?

Not all people are "religious" or even spiritual.

Even if people accepted the fact that God existed, that doesn't mean they would trust, worship, and obey Him (even Satan believes that God exists, but Satan doesn't believe in God).

Hrmm... so much for free will. Even if God was proven to exist, what happens to the people who doesn't trust, worship, and obey him?

Right, we already know the answer. Again, so much for free will. Apparently we don't have a choice.

 

[Yiffzer]

I see you quoted the scripture there, but I still have to ask though. Could you be a little bit more specific as to what you mean when you wrote the word 'purpose'?

That's why I quoted the relevant verse. Do you understand the verse and what it says of God's intention?

Are you referring to the fact that God must remain a hidden God? (if God spoke, that would take away your free will to believe in him)

Not sure how to answer this.

Or did you mean something else with the quoted scripture?

If God revealed himself to everyone, everyone would believe. That contradicts his plan to test mankind. The verse I showed you specifically says that very few would enter Heaven and many would go to hell. If God knows of all things and He had said that very verse, then it would mean that a majority of people would not believe him. If you demanded God to "come out" and He does, that verse would suddenly become false.

Now, as for free will, I already explained that at DS. Don't argue against the post but just try to understand it. I know it goes under heavy debate, especially under philosophy. I have been through it as well. But I've come to realization that there is only one explanation that could help people understand free will.

Sam,

Yes, the free will argument is debated to no end. I will introduce a different perspective so that you may understand the free will claim from the religious camp.

We all know that God's purpose is to test mankind. This is an assumption that is agreed by a majority of followers of God. God provided a fact to its followers that God is all-knowing. Though God knows your every step, you will not know your own fate. Whether you choose to give up and doubt free will or believe and follow suit is up to you. That is a test of your faith. That is a test that distinguishes the believers over the non-believers.

You may have seen some people claim, "I know God will do good things for me." If that person chooses, he/she will follow suit by being as good as possible.

And you may have seen some people claim, "God doesn't care." If that person chooses, he/she will follow suit by being as arrogant and/or ignorant as possible (sometimes unknowingly).

This may be a perspective that hopefully you can understand. The whole concept of free will in religion may sound contradictory but with enough understanding of how God works (which is often very mysterious), you can validate the concept of free will in religion.

-Kahyr.

I already explained how there is free will when it comes to God. There is a thick line between you and God. God knows what will happen at the end of the timeline but you will never know of what God knows. God knows who will and who will not pass the test but you will never know of what God knows. God will know who will and who will not accept God's religion but you will never know of what God knows. That is the test for you - will you take the chance to be a part of his "believers will go to heaven" plan?

Now your next question would probably be: "Why would God do that if He already knows who will end up in Heaven?" I don't know. God's works are mysterious. Or maybe He's just a child who likes to play Barbie with His own creation?

 

[xentar]

God knows what will happen at the end of the timeline but you will never know of what God knows.

I'm reminded of this rather amusing paradoxical quote:

Can omniscient God, who
Knows the future, find
The omnipotence to
Change His future mind?

Now your next question would probably be: "Why would God do that if He already knows who will end up in Heaven?" I don't know. God's works are mysterious. Or maybe He's just a child who likes to play Barbie with His own creation?

I'm gonna have to stick with the barbie syndrome.

 

[Yiffzer]

Cool quote. It's mind boggling. Then again, we would never know. The only defense to that paradoxical quote that a religious person would say:

No creation of God's can be turned against [disprove] Him.
If we are the creation of God, we can not turn against [disprove] Him.
Whatever God's creation's [human beings] creations [scientific evidence or philosophy] can not be used against God for the single reason being Him being higher than all things.

 

[VamPyroX]

Cool quote. It's mind boggling. Then again, we would never know. The only defense to that paradoxical quote that a religious person would say:

No creation of God's can be turned against [disprove] Him.
If we are the creation of God, we can not turn against [disprove] Him.
Whatever God's creation's [human beings] creations [scientific evidence or philosophy] can not be used against God for the single reason being Him being higher than all things.

If God is testing us, he's gambling with us.

 

[shel90]

Speaking of proof and evidence I'll jump in and say that there is no scientific evidence indicating that God exists.

• God has never left any physical evidence of his existence on earth.
  
• None of Jesus' "miracles" left any physical evidence either.
  
• God has never spoken to modern man, for example by taking over all the television stations and broadcasting a rational message to everyone.
  
• The resurrected Jesus has never appeared to anyone.
  
• The Bible we have is provably incorrect and is obviously the work of primitive men rather than God.
  
• When we analyze prayer with statistics, we find no evidence that God is "answering prayers."
  
• Huge, amazing atrocities like the Holocaust and AIDS occur without any response from God.
  
• And so on…

If we had scientific proof of God's existence, we would talk about the "science of God" rather than "faith in God".

If we had scientific proof of God's existence, the study of God would be a scientific endeavor rather than a theological one.

If we had scientific proof of God's existence, all religious people would be aligning on the God that had been scientifically proven to exist. Instead there are thousands of gods and religions.

 

[shel90]

Hrmm... so much for free will. Even if God was proven to exist, what happens to the people who doesn't trust, worship, and obey him?

Right, we already know the answer. Again, so much for free will. Apparently we don't have a choice.

I know..no kidding!

 

[christlovedeaf]

Well, over 500 people witnessed Jesus ascension, and said, still, few does not believe in Him. Proof doesn't change their mind. Even Jesus parable about the rich man and Lazarus, when the rich man in torment in outer darkness and beg to tell his family, and Jesus said, they still will not believe. Even Jesus healed many, some still doesn't believe. Proof does not change anyone's mind. And talking about evidence. History shown what has happen in His time and rather to believe those who doesn't believe Christ than believe those who do believe in Christ. Evidence? It's there, but notice rather choose other whoever speak against Christ.

 

[xentar]

Well, over 500 people witnessed Jesus ascension, and said, still, few does not believe in Him. Proof doesn't change their mind. Even Jesus parable about the rich man and Lazarus, when the rich man in torment in outer darkness and beg to tell his family, and Jesus said, they still will not believe. Even Jesus healed many, some still doesn't believe. Proof does not change anyone's mind. And talking about evidence. History shown what has happen in His time and rather to believe those who doesn't believe Christ than believe those who do believe in Christ. Evidence? It's there, but notice rather choose other whoever speak against Christ.

Have you ever stopped to notice where there is no evidence, the only thing they can say is "well even if there were evidence, it still wouldn't change people's mind".

If one would to try this analogy to science, you'd make a bad scientist. It'll be like you trying to prove something, but since you have no evidence naturally no one is going to believe you.

Want to convert people who's into science to worship your God? Provide evident.

 

[christlovedeaf]

Have you ever stopped to notice where there is no evidence, the only thing they can say is "well even if there were evidence, it still wouldn't change people's mind".

If one would to try this analogy to science, you'd make a bad scientist. It'll be like you trying to prove something, but since you have no evidence naturally no one is going to believe you.

Want to convert people who's into science to worship your God? Provide evident.

Xentar, before I say something, since you are new to me and not want to misunderstand of my saying, I know some just bashing and grabbing throats and etc, but I am not that way. Rather share the POV. As so call show me proof will not get you anywhere. Even all those years, there are lot of proofs, but not want to accept it or attitude of turning down or turn their backs or close their eyes. Proof or no proof will answer the same. Strongest saying what Jesus said after Thomas doubted Jesus, "... now you (Thomas) seen me, but blessed are those who have not seen Me yet believe...." Showing proofs does show of lack or no faith at all. Noone convert me, and neither will I convert you, why? Bec that is not my job, my job is to share, a person's job is to decide, at that point, that is where God is at work, gentle voice speaking to your heart, many many are deafen His speaking, bec their mind is soooo loud and following wherever the eyes leading them to believe and chose to believe. The world is far louder than jet fighter. God's voice is soo gentle and serene. In my daily walk, I have seen how God is working whereever I go, many times, I don't understand why this and that, and discovered where I go wrong and etc, why? Take my time in solitary moments. Sometimes, when I sinned, that lead me farther away and harder to figure it out, thats where I cry out to have Him helps me to get back on my feet. Not, I am in perfect or highest level, I never will be. But strive toward the goal. I believe in science, depend who is teaching. Bec there are many scientist and alot have different views, and the way I see, many people chose whoever the scientist teaches as a "proof". But as a "proof", yet, that is not mean if there is no God. Still in the loophole. Lee Strobel and his wife were in your level and has very similar questions and etc and even worse, and the same one who wrote a book called " Case of Christ". I will not have same experience as a same life I face as Reba, or other christians, but yet same beliefs who Christ is.