Recent statements by Catholic church about bible

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Reba said:
That's my point. A person can't logically accept all (or even a few) different religions as equally valid because the teachings of each one contradict the others. A person must either pick one religion or no religion to follow. For example, three religions have beliefs about life after death. Religion A believes in reincarnation. Religion B believes in total annilihation. Religion C believes everyone goes to heaven. A person can't say, "I believe they are all true." How can that be? How can a person die and be reincarnated, annilihalted, and go to heaven at the same time?

She's not accepting any religion. She's simply saying that she acknowledges the presence of a divine being or beings, over Atheism, but does not subscribe to any other their specific teachings. This is the common belief of all religions: the existance of a spiritual presence.
 
Thanks central 34.....that's exactly what I meant.
Reba, I don't know why God appeared in many different manifesations. Maybe that's how the people in that country saw/interpreted Him, through their Cultral Lens. Man cannot conceive of God in all God's glory.
I've found in life that everything is interconnected. One of my friends who is a WICKED Christian said that she'd read somewhere that Jesus may have studied with Budda.
 
Reba said:
We can't pick and choose what parts of the Bible to accept as accurate. Either all of God's word is true, or none of it is true. God doesn't say, "Believe Me when I tell you how to be saved, but you can wink at the rest of the Bible."

This is based on the assumation that there was a god who authored the bible. Assuming that a god wrote or inspired the writing of the entire bible and always tells the truth leads one to see the bible as a monolithic entity as far as truth is concerned.
Considering the bible as a volume with multiple authors makes it easier to think of the bible having parts of different truths.

<snip question for someone else>

Reba said:
The Bible is not a science text book but the science that it does contain is accurate. God is not the author of lies or confusion.

So, the belief that the god doesn't lie or confuse leads to the belief that all of the science in the bible is correct? That is starting with an assertion that haven't yet been supported here. And don't support it by quoting the bible because that would lead to circularity as discussed before.
What to do would be compare the claims in the bible to what we can detect out there in the real would to decide if any of the science in the bible is right instead of starting with the assertion about god never lying. It's because we all agree that the natural world exists, unlike with supernatual things like gods, so we should start with the natural.
 
CyberRed said:
Ok, Cental34. Thanks for not bashin'. :)
Umm, here's the scriptures about the rapture :

Rapture :

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [caught up=Rapture]
1 Thessalonians 4:18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
1 Thessalonians 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That's when and BEFORE the Anti-Christ appear on the world's stage. The Revelation is more complicated, but when Anti-Christ appear on the world's stage, then the Revelation will reveal...no more complication. Right now, we are not there just yet and, it's why the Revelation is very hard to understand. People will realize after readin' the Revelation right AFTER the rapture, because they will see him, the Anti-Christ. Some will flee and hide after learnin' somethin' from the Revelation about the Anti-Christ.

I'll be honest, I've done alot of research for the past hour, attepmting to refute the verse, even challenge its credibility. Did I come up with anything solid? No. But I still have a hard time accepting the concept of rapture. In fact, the belief of the rapture was not popular until the 18th Century. But on the other hand, 1 Thesselonians was one of the earliest written texts of the New Testament, between 50 and 60, AD.

Now that I get to thinking about it, I'm not even sure if I still believe in the Bible. I have several friends who can easily challenge the credibility of the writings. They are knowledgable of each individual books background, and the authors. I've read several articles on early church councils and politics about books omitted because the clergy did not approve of the content. These are books that have been retranslated throughout several generations. I just don't know what I believe anymore.
 
RedFox said:
What you said sets a standard for deciding who is a Christian and who are not among those who claim to be Christians. The liberal Christians could easily say that since you follow the bible absolutely, you are not a true Christian.
It's like when Muslims say that the extreme Muslim terrorists like bin Laden are not true Muslims. Bin Laden could claim that the Muslims criticizing him are not true Muslims by his standards.
Different people can use different standards to decide who is in a group. Or Christianity could be considered a set of many belief systems that have common characteristics like believing in Jesus plus some other characteristics that could vary, such as how the bible is followed.

Sighs.

You are not making any sense. I believe Christian is only a true religious. You cannot compare with Muslims or other reiligious.

The liberal Christians could easily say that since you follow the bible absolutely, you are not a true Christian.

Yes, if the Holy Spirit did not entered the person then that person who know everything about Bible and the doctrine then that person isn't Christian, yet.

When you can be Christian that you are absolute following the Bible, know doctrine, attending church, repent sin, show lights and with holy spirit in them.
 
Crazymanw00t said:
Sighs.

You are not making any sense. I believe Christian is only a true religious. You cannot compare with Muslims or other reiligious.

It doesn't make sense to start with the assumation, which haven't yet been supported here, that Christianity is the only true religion. Since when true things can't be compared to other things, including things that could be false? I could compare the writings of Anne Frank to whatever fictional writings I could find about oppressed people to compare their experiences, thoughts and emotions. Becuase of the fictional nature of the hypothetical fictional writings, the information we get from the comparison is different from if they were all true. Namely, the comparison would show how good or bad the writers of the fictional material were at writting about oppressed people.
With religions, unlike the example above, the truth of each of them had not yet been shown without making circular arguments. So the nature of the information resulting from the comparison between relgions would be different from the information about the writings in the above example. Namely, the information would be a comparison of the histories of the religions, their belief systems, etc. It is not impossible to make such comparisons. Of course, if one of those religons was shown to be true, the nature of the comparison would change to include what is false about the other religions.

Crazymanw00t said:
Yes, if the Holy Spirit did not entered the person then that person who know everything about Bible and the doctrine then that person isn't Christian, yet.

When you can be Christian that you are absolute following the Bible, know doctrine, attending church, repent sin, show lights and with holy spirit in them.

Not everybody who knows a lot about the bible claim that they are Christians. Christians may believe in a holy spirit and use its whereabouts outside or inside people as a part of a definition of who are Christians. But there could be disagreement about if the holy spirit really did enter somebody or not. For example, I thought it was in me. Maybe some Christians would say that I never was really one. If they said things like that, they'd be assuming that people like me had been faking it the whole time when the Christians can't get inside others' heads, including those of future deconverts, to see if they're faking it or not. Maybe they could say that it was trick of Satan, but that's assuming that Satan is real, which haven't yet been supported. They could say that only their god would know if people really believed or if they were faking it. But that's falling back onto a being whose existence had not yet been supported here. The best thing for them to do is not say people faked belief if they deconverted. I really did believe :bowdown: and it's nuts to claim otherwise. :crazy:
 
What's your definition of being filled with the Holy Spirit?
The Holy Spirit is love.........We are ALL filled with the Holy Spirit if we know and love. Is it speaking in tongues? Is it being on fire for God? If God is love, then love is God. I don't need a church or sinful men to tell me how to think. Crazyman.....you forget that John Calvin was a sinful man. He had His OWN built in biases and was corrupt. The only PURE One was Jesus. Follow His Teachings....that is what He says about stuff, and you're a Christian, even if you don't go to church (oh, and one of my favorite sayings is "Going to church doesn't make you a christian any more then going to the garage makes you a car") or are born again or whatever. What makes John Calvin's teachings about Jesus more "legitimate" then: Luther's, the various and sundry Popes (oh, and if you use teachings by Paul or scripture by Paul, were you aware that you are supporting the Catholic Church? Paul was the FIRST pope!), David Koresh's, Jim Jones, Brigham Young, Ellen White, Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson and more leaders then I can care to name?
 
deafdyke said:
What's your definition of being filled with the Holy Spirit?
The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity--Father, Son and Holy Spirit. At the very moment that a person receives Christ as Savior, the Holy Spirit enters that person, and stays permenantly. That is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The filling of the Holy Spirit means to totally surrender to the Holy Spirit's influence. Therefore, all Christians are indwelled by the Holy Spirit (His presence is within) but NOT all Christians are filled with the Holy Spirit on a daily basis. Unconfessed sin, the influence of the old nature, spiritual laziness, etc., can hinder the influence of the Holy Spirit, which means the person is not filled with the Holy Spirit at that time.

Prior to salvation, the Holy Spirit is outside the person, convicting the person, leading the person to Christ.


The Holy Spirit is love.........We are ALL filled with the Holy Spirit if we know and love.
The Holy Spirit is the Comforter that was sent by Jesus to live in and support Christians while they live on earth. The Holy Spirit is present inside saved/born-again Christians, only.

Is it speaking in tongues?
No.

Is it being on fire for God?
If you mean a strong love for God, and living for God, then that is one of the results of Holy Spirit filling.


The only PURE One was Jesus. Follow His Teachings....
Exactly. Jesus taught that He is THE ONLY WAY to Heaven. Jesus taught that "ye MUST be born again". Yes, we must follow His teachings.

...you're a Christian, even if you don't go to church ... or are born again or whatever.
John 3:1-3
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:7
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.


Paul was the FIRST pope!
No, Paul was never a "pope".
BTW, the Catholic church teaches that Peter was their first pope.
 
The Holy Spirit has many names and titles. I will type all the names and titles of the Holy Spirit here. I got all of them right here from my bible ( KJV ).

Titles and Names of the Holy Spirit

Breathe of the Almighty Job 33:4
Comforter John 14:16, 26; 15:26
Eternal Spirit Hebrews 9:14
Free Spirit Psalms 51:12
God Acts 5:3-4
Good Spirit Nehemiah 9:20; Psalms 143:10
Holy Spirit Psalms 51:11; Luke 11:13; Ephesians 1:13; 4:30
Lord 2 Thessolanians 3:5
Power of the highest Luke 1:35
Seven Spirits of God Revelation 1:4
Spirit Matthew 4:1; John 3:6; 1 Timothy 4:1
Spirit of adoption Revelation 19:10
Spirit of burnin' Isaiah 4:4
Spirit of Christ Romans 8:9; 1 Peter 1:11
Spirit of counsel Isaiah 11:2
Spirit of the Father Mattew 10:20
Spirit of the fear of the Lord Isaiah 11:2
Spirit of glory 1 Peter 4:14
Spirit of God Genesis 1:2; 1 Corinthians 2:11; Job 33:4
Spirit of grace Zechariah 12:10; Hebrews 10:29
Spirit of holiness Romans 1:4
Spirit of judgment Isaiah 4:4; 28:6
Spirit of knowledge Isaiah 11:2
Spirit of life Romans 8:2; Revelation 11:11
Spirit of the Lord Isaiah 11:2; Acts 5:9
Spirit of the Lord God Isaiah 61:1
Spirit of might Isaiah 11:2
Spirit of prophecy Revelation 19:10
Spirit of revelation Ephesians 1:17
Spirit of the Son Galatians 4:6
Spirit of truth John 14:17; 15:26
Spirit of understandin' Isaiah 11:2
Spirit of wisdom Isaiah 11:2; Ephesians 1:17

The Holy Spirit has their own personality, too.
 
Let me remind you again. I do not follow John Calvin's teaching. He just points out what is the Bible really trying to teach us. He showed the Bible's core with T-U-L-I-P and that is what I believe. Therefore I believe the teaching from Jesus Christ.
 
I do not follow John Calvin's teaching. He just points out what is the Bible really trying to teach us. He showed the Bible's core with T-U-L-I-P and that is what I believe
Would you have come up with the T-U-L-I-P theroy on your OWN? Probaly not, You follow Calvin's teachings...You did not study the Bible on your own to come up with those beliefs.
Reba, is that according to the King James Bible or is that verse consistant through ALL versions of the Bible?
 
Crazymanw00t said:
The Roman Catholic Church is a false church. They teach false doctrine, and gospel. Sorry, that is truth.
I agree with you. RC is also a cult.
 
cental34 said:
Basically if two men practice homosexuality, they must be put to death. So I think the Bible is pretty clear on what to do. Are you going to follow God's word? Are you going to put them to death?
We are under GRACE right now -- NO LONGER the LAW (OT). Give them their LAST chance for the REPENTANCE.
 
Yeah, and what about witches?
Catholicism is not a cult?!?!?! It's been a mainstream religion for MILLENIA!!!!!!! Oh, and how ironic that this post should be listed as 666......Does that mean I'm the AntiChrist? Lev.....What's your church's Anti-Christ called? The Anti-Pasto? :thumb:
 
deafdyke said:
...Reba, is that according to the King James Bible or is that verse consistant through ALL versions of the Bible?
Are you referring to the verses from John 3? I use the KJV. However, it is the same concept in other versions:

John 3: 3, 7

(RSV)
3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born anew.'

(NJV)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

(ASV)
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born anew.


The Douay-Rheims Bible
3 Jesus answered and said to him: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
7 Wonder not that I said to thee: You must be born again.

New Living Translation
3 Jesus replied, "I assure you, unless you are born again, you can never see the Kingdom of God."
7 So don't be surprised at my statement that you must be born again.

Good News
3 Jesus answered, "I am telling you the truth: no one can see the Kingdom of God without being born again."
7 Do not be surprised because I tell you that you must all be born again.

New Century version
3 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, unless one is born again, he cannot be in God's kingdom."
7 Don't be surprised when I tell you, 'You must all be born again.'
 
Askjo said:
TULIP is a false teaching, the unscriptural teaching.

Ok you just disagree with TULIP because you believe in the free-will. Free-will is very very unscriptural. TULIP is very scriptural and all those TULIPs are based on the Bible's verses and stories, period. If TULIP wasn't based on the Bible's verse and I will never believe it, for example: Free-will.
 
deafdyke said:
Would you have come up with the T-U-L-I-P theroy on your OWN? Probaly not, You follow Calvin's teachings...You did not study the Bible on your own to come up with those beliefs.

Uh!? You need to re-check what I am doing and gospeling on this website. TULIP is based on GOD CONTROLS EVERYTHING WITH GOOD AND BAD and that is TULIP's core. Bible gave many many many like that controling the good and bad from Gen. to Rev.
 
cental34 said:
Now that I get to thinking about it, I'm not even sure if I still believe in the Bible. I have several friends who can easily challenge the credibility of the writings. They are knowledgable of each individual books background, and the authors. I've read several articles on early church councils and politics about books omitted because the clergy did not approve of the content. These are books that have been retranslated throughout several generations. I just don't know what I believe anymore.

Cental34: To be able to challenge something does not equal 'the thing challenged is incorrect.' I know of people personally who can argue that the holocaust never happened in Europe under Hitler (with lots of 'evidence') but their rationalizations and viewpoints do not overcome the truth that it did happen. (the truth established by eyewitnesses, documents, photos, film, locations, etc.) I daresay that a good lawyer could convince a normal jury that just about anything you assert is shaky at best (in terms of provability).

Not that my education or credentials make me more of an authority than any of your friends, but I do read koine greek (the language of the New Testament). I have studied the formation of both the old and new testament. Conspiracy theories always run ahead of evidence and truth, and unfortunately are rarely exposed for the sensational-yet-unsubstantial fads that they are. The current (but already debunked) fad is the claims of Dan Brown in The DaVinci Code (which proposes alot of the same things you mention in your post). Do a quick online search about 'errors davinci code', there are already 12 books on the market refuting the rehashed arguments in his book.

Most of the challenges against the legitimacy of the new testament documents arise from a non-historically-accurate view of the council of Nicea. Many have been erroneously led to believe that the books of the New Testament were somehow 'voted' upon then, or worse yet, that Constantine himself 'hand-picked' the contents of the New Testament. Nothing even close to that occured. The issue at Nicea was the truth concerning the deity of Christ: Was He God, or was He created by God? That issue WAS voted upon (with over 300 of the delegates saying He is God, and only 3 saying that Jesus wasnt God, later only 1).

But the question may arise, but just how ACCURATE is what we have today compared to the ORIGINAL writings of the New Testament? Have the writings been corrupted, changed, or translated wrong? To answer, let me borrow a quote:

"This is a common misconception. Some people think that the Bible was written in one language, translated to another language, then translated into yet another and so on until it was finally translated into the English. The complaint is that since it was rewritten so many times in different languages throughout history, it must have become corrupted ...The fact is that the Bible has not been rewritten. Take the New Testament, for example. The disciples of Jesus wrote the New Testament in Greek and though we do not have the original documents, we do have around 6,000 copies of the Greek manuscripts that were made very close to the time of the originals. These various manuscripts, or copies, agree with each other to almost 100 percent accuracy. Statistically, the New Testament is 99.5% textually pure. That means that there is only 1/2 of 1% of of all the copies that do not agree with each other perfectly. But, if you take that 1/2 of 1% and examine it, you find that the majority of the "problems" are nothing more than spelling errors and very minor word alterations. For example, instead of saying Jesus, a variation might be "Jesus Christ." So the actual amount of textual variation of any concern is extremely low. Therefore, we can say that we have a remarkably accurate compilation of the original documents.
So when that we translate the Bible, we do not translate from a translation of a translation of a translation. We translate from the original language into our language. It is a one step process and not a series of steps that can lead to corruption. It is one translation step from the original to the English or to whatever language a person needs to read it in. " (http://www.carm.org/questions/rewritten.htm)

To even further remove the possibility of improper translation, I learned koine (new testament) greek in college in the late 80s. I wanted to check my english translations to see if they were faithful. I personally have found that the NEW King James english translation is fairly faithful to the greek, others may be as well.

All of this amazing evidence aside, there is still the overwhelming conclusion of logic, which states that if there is a God who created us, and Who desires to communicate with us, then that God is powerful enough to ensure that what we have is His message recorded and preserved faithfully. Is there a book in the world that (1) claims to be the Word of God (2) contains internal, verifiable evidence that it is of divine origin (3) Has stood the test of time through overcoming challenges to its veracity and historicity (4) Speaks to the greatest need of mankind...i.e. establishing a personal and real relationship with the creator. ?

The answer is yes, the Bible. As far as verifiability of divine influence in its composition, the Bible is the only 'sacred' text in the world that a full 1/3 of what was written was PROPHETIC in nature. In other words, 1 out of every 3 verses in the Bible speak about events YET FUTURE when those verses were penned. Not vague 'pie-in-the-sky-at-the-end-of-the-world' statements, but specific prophecies, written hundreds and even thousands of years BEFORE the events that they detailed. Many hundreds have already been literally fulfilled in verifiable history. Specific events, people, places. If the Bible were only the product of man, (1) it would not be possible to have 100% accuracy about future events (2) it would have already been proven false by an inaccurate prophecy. If mortal man could accurately foretell the future, we would have a lot more billionaires in the stock market, no doubt.

Here's just one contemporary example: the nation of Israel. No country in human history which was wiped off the face of the earth and it's people scattered to the four quadrants of the globe, and then miraculously reappears as an autonomous nation 2000 years later, with ethnicity, language, culture, and faith all still 100% intact. The Bible said that the Lord would regather the Jews to their land in the last days(after dispersing them for a long period), just before the Messiah comes back. May 1948 saw that come to pass.

There are those who question many things. But God is not afraid of our questions, He is much greater than all of our conflicting perplexities. He created us with an inquisitive and rational mind. The danger is when we reject the truth because it makes us uncomfortable or because we are intimidated by what others will think of us if we acknowledge the truth.

We may not understand all things, but that does not stand in the way of accepting something. No one on this planet understands the true physics of gravity, yet we accept it. No one understands WHY or HOW it works, but we accept it because of the verifiability of the premise of GRAVITY. This analogy could be enlarged to include many dozens of readily accepted concepts in the physical sciences. We can accept without always understanding.

It is not faith IN SPITE of the evidence, it is faith BECAUSE OF the evidence. God is NOT asking for blind faith, He is asking for intelligent faith based upon the assurances of His trustworthiness. That can be easily established.

Do we doubt His love for us??? Just pause and think about the CROSS...all doubt will vanish.

Romans 5:8 "But God PROVES His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
Amen
 
deafdyke said:
Yeah, and what about witches?
Catholicism is not a cult?!?!?! It's been a mainstream religion for MILLENIA!!!!!!! Oh, and how ironic that this post should be listed as 666......Does that mean I'm the AntiChrist? Lev.....What's your church's Anti-Christ called? The Anti-Pasto? :thumb:

AntiChrist
Revelation 13:11-18

"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six
."

Did you know that all the armies/troops/soliders already have their devices under their skin ? First pets, and then, armies. It's startin' on people now. There's one place in Spain that has the mark already for people there. Don't let it surprise you if, you start to realize that the bible is tellin' the truth. :)There's also a movie called "The Manchurian Candidate" -- it will give you some ideas. You can find it at the video store.
 
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