Proposal for Audism policy to be placed in the guidelines

[Mrs Bucket]

Thanks sweetie!

I'll be away out of town today and will be back later this evening.

I truly appreciate each one of you & your contribution to this thorny issue. It really helps us mend as a community.

 

[shel90]

Will need to go thru the videos...I agree with Mrs. Bucket but I also kinda understand PFH's point of view..still thinking.

 

[deafskeptic]

Audism has always been a thorny subject for a long time, it was defined in 1977 but buried so deep in the books.

It was just too thorny; Deaf elitists would actually practise audism themselves without realising it. Systematic audism, the Deaf elitists actually suffered from systematic audism when they in turn practised audism on others.

Some Deaf elitists would assume other Deaf people with a lower "d" didn't understand Deaf culture because they weren't educated about the Deaf-World, they didn't go to the Deaf institution, they weren't from a Deaf family and they didn't have a Deaf identity.

Systematic audism had to be broken free in order to analyse ourselves to realise that we actually did this to others because hearing people did this to us. We needed to self-project the audism towards the weaker kind. We were viewed as the weaker kind by the hearing people therefore we had to find the weaker kind; DeafBlind, Deaf with physical handicaps.

Yes, audism is thorny and still is. It is hard to accept and discuss audism because it means we have to seek within ourselves our wrongdoings towards our own community.

It starts with ourselves and it starts with our community; AD.

The subject is a thorny subject for me as well. I am slow to call others audist because I want to assume that the person may not be very educated about the Deaf community so I will give them a chance. And yes it's our responsibilty to address this issue.

I think the offender should take the responsibility for their actions and that they should make amends.

That said, as Carl said , some people will not take responsibility for their actions. If that is the case there, they must deal with the consequences of their actions if we are to take action against them. I can think of one poster whom I think is an audist and he likes to play the blame game on others and subject them to ridicule. Many of his posts seem calculated to stir up a hornet's nest. I'm sure there are other examples that others can think of as an example.

If the majority agree that a person has a history of audism, the question here is what should be done about this person on this forum? Personally, I think everyone is welcome here till they turn out to be trolls or worse. If someone gets a threatening or hate pm or post, I think that the sender gets an insta ban or even a perma ban but I'm not so certain about other courses of action vs the audist. Audists and trolls have potential to destroy an internet community. If they ignore the complaints and warnings, they deserve bans.

I can see where PFH is coming from and I'm willing to let the audists to make themselves known but I think their actions should be tolerated only so far.

 

[evil_queen_lisa]

I couldn't watch the vids since I don't know enough ASL and can't get what was said. I tried, but I'm not quite that fluent yet.

agreed. Could someone please summarize / interpret the videos for those of us who cannot access them?
Thanks,
*EQL*

 

[faire_jour]

Can we get a good, working definition for what would be considered "audism"? If a newly implanted CI user says "My CI has made my life so much better! I can't believe what I was missing out on!" Is that unacceptable? How about an oral deaf person saying that they are happy they grew up oral annd have no problem with oralism? What about reverse audism when a Deaf person calls CI users "freaks"?

What is acceptable life experience and what is audism?

 

[Moon-child]

I don't know near enough sign to make much of those videos. I only have level one. I cannot afford Level two right now, sucks that it comes down to finances. I need more info and then contemplation before I can comment on the topic. Please!

 

[Bottesini]

It is beginning to sound like a witch hunt.

Criteria for membership should probably be spelled out more clearly.

 

[deafskeptic]

It is beginning to sound like a witch hunt.

Criteria for membership should probably be spelled out more clearly.

I'm not interested in hunting down anyone I think is an audist. Only if the person causes problems for us should this issue be addressed. Nor do I think all audists be banned from this forum. IMO, if an audist commits a hate crime, he/she should be banned. But I'm not sure what should be the appropriate action be toward repeat offenders on this forum. So I'm asking others what they think would be appropriate.

 

[Bottesini]

I'm not interested in hunting down anyone I think is an audist. Only if the person causes problems for us should this issue be addressed. Nor do I think all audists be banned from this forum. IMO, if an audist commits a hate crime, he/she should be banned. But I'm not sure what should be the appropriate action be toward repeat offenders on this forum. So I'm asking others what they think would be appropriate.

Considering that it is advertised on Facebook that hearing people are welcome, we will always get a lot of people here who know absolutely nothing about deaf people.

If people are going to be required to prostrate themselves and apologize publicly if they make any error, the site may as well just close to all except those culturally deaf from the start. Then go back to the isolated exclusive deaf world of my grandparents era.

I am not certain that is what the site owner has in mind.

 

[deafskeptic]

Considering that it is advertised on Facebook that hearing people are welcome, we will always get a lot of people here who know absolutely nothing about deaf people.

If people are going to be required to prostrate themselves and apologize publicly if they make any error, the site may as well just close to all except those culturally deaf from the start. Then go back to the isolated exclusive deaf world of my grandparents era.

I am not certain that is what the site owner has in mind.

You have a point there.

If it were up to me, I would have them apologize only for serious infractions but for minors ones, I would simply reprimand them. I certainly don't think it's reasonable for the offenders to prostrate themselves every time they make mistakes.

 

[Bottesini]

You have a point there.

If it were up to me, I would have them apologize only for serious infractions but for minors ones, I would simply reprimand them. I certainly don't think it's reasonable for the offenders to prostrate themselves every time they make mistakes.

That is what I think too.

 

[Bebonang]

I voted yes. I am getting tired of having the audists think that they know more about getting us to listen, listen and listen. They don't know nothing about deafness. All they care about is hear and listen. If some of the deaf can hear with CI, great. But the thing is having a CI cost a lot of money more than having hearing aids and I mean after the surgery, the CI person has to pay for extra to make the CI run in good order. Nothing is free. I am not against CI as long as wealthy CI person can afford to pay extra to go with the CI. For the middle and poor person, that is a big lump of throat to know where and how can they afford to buy or pay extra. Insurance? Welfare? Loans?

Many hearing parents always seem to jump into the band wagon to get us "fix". That is why I want to stamp out "Audism" and stop this nonsense. We are and had experienced our d/Deaf world and wanted to learn ASL after the mainstream school which was bad with no accommodation and no deaf program. Some mainstream school had or have Deaf program with better accommodations, but still they all want us, deafies, to get "fix". :roll:

Also we are comfortable being with Deaf people in the Deaf communities including AllDeaf community. That is my opinion and my feeling about all this.

 

[shel90]

Can we get a good, working definition for what would be considered "audism"? If a newly implanted CI user says "My CI has made my life so much better! I can't believe what I was missing out on!" Is that unacceptable? How about an oral deaf person saying that they are happy they grew up oral annd have no problem with oralism? What about reverse audism when a Deaf person calls CI users "freaks"?

What is acceptable life experience and what is audism?

Already, by saying " I didn't know what I was missing out" shows one's support of the hearing perspective.

This thread is about audism in such that people view being hearing or "hearing" like is being better than deaf.

Many of us are sick of hearing about how being "hearing" equates to more opportunities, more doors being opened, or as having a better quality of life.

It just keeps reinforcing society's need to contunie to oppress deaf people for their living the "deaf" way of life. Stop the oppression..enough is enough.

 

[Dixie]

I think this really just comes down to having a strong sense of Deaf pride. Before you realized you were black or white, American or Russian, you knew you were Deaf. This is the first identity you had albeit you cannot see it in the mirror.

I agree that it is inappropriate for someone to come on here to AD.com and flag around that being hearing is better, when really overall as a group, we are happy with our hearing status. Sure we dealt with it in our younger years, but as we got older, that it is not a mistake or a glitch but simply that it's just meant to be. We accepted it and now we'ere happily getting on with it.

I say we leave the membership policy as is, but if a member comes here blatantly downing those who are d/Deaf/HH and proclaiming that being hearing is superior then that member will be asked to leave AD.com and not return. JMHO.

 

[Frisky Feline]

I voted yes. I am getting tired of having the audists think that they know more about getting us to listen, listen and listen. They don't know nothing about deafness. All they care about is hear and listen. If some of the deaf can hear with CI, great. But the thing is having a CI cost a lot of money more than having hearing aids and I mean after the surgery, the CI person has to pay for extra to make the CI run in good order. Nothing is free. I am not against CI as long as wealthy CI person can afford to pay extra to go with the CI. For the middle and poor person, that is a big lump of throat to know where and how can they afford to buy or pay extra. Insurance? Welfare? Loans?

Many hearing parents always seem to jump into the band wagon to get us "fix". That is why I want to stamp out "Audism" and stop this nonsense. We are and had experienced our d/Deaf world and wanted to learn ASL after the mainstream school which was bad with no accommodation and no deaf program. Some mainstream school had or have Deaf program with better accommodations, but still they all want us, deafies, to get "fix". :roll:

Also we are comfortable being with Deaf people in the Deaf communities including AllDeaf community. That is my opinion and my feeling about all this.

Already, by saying " I didn't know what I was missing out" shows that your support the hearing perspective.

This is about audism in such that people view being hearing or "hearing" like is being better than deaf.

Many of us are sick of hearing about how being "hearing" equates to more opportunities, more doors being opened, or as having a better quality of life.

It just keeps reinforcing society's need to contunie to oppress deaf people for their living the "deaf" way of life. Stop the oppression..enough is enough.

See bolds. Like I was thinking about to get CI however, I learned so much about CI expenses. I want to say, "OH MY GOD!, Are you kidding me!" why am I saying that? First of all, indeed, I was curious about CI to hear something according to the Hearing people says so. Well, heck, I am ALSO happy for who I am. THANK GOD for that because Deaf Identifiy is a REAL worth it while I can't afford CIs. Trust me on that. I am not sad that I am not going for CI because I only want to buy CIs for my own fun but its expensive! Indeed, I feel bad for anyone who wanted CI so bad yet, some of them have to take money out of their pockets. I am not going to give $$$ to the hearing people in order to hear the simple sounds while we have already had language is ASL. Yet they gives me some attitudes, like " why not go for ci?, excuse me! Don't you realize that ci is NO free. D'oh!" I made my decision on it. Now i realize about others who have no money for kids that costs their lives to be sad because they cant afford CIs or CI went wrong, then what suppose they are doing with being deaf? Yes cure is taking ASL and find their own souls in their lives. Isn't that hard! I think we Deaf people are strong enough to stand our own minds.

Deaf is not a diease but identify!

 

[KristinaB]

See bolds. Like I was thinking about to get CI however, I learned so much about CI expenses. I want to say, "OH MY GOD!, Are you kidding me!" why am I saying that? First of all, indeed, I was curious about CI to hear something according to the Hearing people says so. Well, heck, I am ALSO happy for who I am. THANK GOD for that because Deaf Identifiy is a REAL worth it while I can't afford CIs. Trust me on that. I am not sad that I am not going for CI because I only want to buy CIs for my own fun but its expensive! Indeed, I feel bad for anyone who wanted CI so bad yet, some of them have to take money out of their pockets. I am not going to give $$$ to the hearing people in order to hear the simple sounds while we have already had language is ASL. Yet they gives me some attitudes, like " why not go for ci?, excuse me! Don't you realize that ci is NO free. D'oh!" I made my decision on it. Now i realize about others who have no money for kids that costs their lives to be sad because they cant afford CIs or CI went wrong, then what suppose they are doing with being deaf? Yes cure is taking ASL and find their own souls in their lives. Isn't that hard! I think we Deaf people are strong enough to stand our own minds.

Deaf is not a diease but identify!

 

[Lighthouse77]

Already, by saying " I didn't know what I was missing out" shows one's support of the hearing perspective.

This thread is about audism in such that people view being hearing or "hearing" like is being better than deaf.

Many of us are sick of hearing about how being "hearing" equates to more opportunities, more doors being opened, or as having a better quality of life.

It just keeps reinforcing society's need to contunie to oppress deaf people for their living the "deaf" way of life. Stop the oppression..enough is enough.

I'm sick of excuses that you need hear and speak so you can communicate with extended family. I can understand you'll need speech skills around strangers and some cases in workplaces -- like becoming a nurse because you want to help people no matter what their background is-- but not family.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

I will spend today adding transcripts to the videos to accomodate the community.

I apologise to Lissa. I did tell her I could not transcribe my own ASL videos into English because they were two different languages but now I can see it from her POV- I am not providing accessibility when I claim accessibility is for everyone.

Bear with me while I provide transcripts.

To provide an example why the audism policy needs to be in place. This disparaging word has always been used-

******* Yes serious. He is a deaftard.
Thurs at 17:13

This person uses it quite frequently.

I googled up the use of the word and came up already 11 times; this is damaging to our community.

I did use that word in a video not realising the magnitude of the word at the time several years ago; I'm going back to my posts and remove this video.

 

[Lissa]

I will spend today adding transcripts to the videos to accomodate the community.

I apologise to Lissa. I did tell her I could not transcribe my own ASL videos into English because they were two different languages but now I can see it from her POV- I am not providing accessibility when I claim accessibility is for everyone.

Bear with me while I provide transcripts.

To provide an example why the audism policy needs to be in place. This disparaging word has always been used-



This person uses it quite frequently.

I googled up the use of the word and came up already 11 times; this is damaging to our community.

I did use that word in a video not realising the magnitude of the word at the time several years ago; I'm going back to my posts and remove this video.

Thanks for your apology Mrs Bucket. I need to see things more from your POV too, as you're an full ASL user and I am not a sign language user. I can now understand what you mean,
Thanks for taking your time to transcript the video. After all, you would be the best person to explain your views in videos, I enjoy learning from you since you make things very clear.

 

[Frisky Feline]

I have a question.

Does it considered or counted as an audist attitude when Audists see other parents or anyone decide not to place their kids into the oral program, or spoken language, or speech therapy and considered that the parents are so lazy?