Palm in or Palm out

Mountain Man said:
I was taught 1-5 palm in, 6-10 palm out, 11-15 palm in, and then it's more or less palm out from there.

Apparently more and more signs are being modified to palm out to make them easier to read on video chat systems, so it's common these days to see 1-10 palm out (and even days of the week signs).
Click to expand...
Good points.

Added info: When I first learned how to sign numbers, around 1968, it was with 1-5 facing outward. Just to jog my memory, I looked at my Lou Fant textbook from that time, and sure enough, the numbers all faced palm out. So maybe it has changed over time. (Back in those days, ASL was called Ameslan.)


9 and 3 both have three fingers pointing up, so it's plausible that someone could confuse them if they were signed with the same palm orientation.
Click to expand...
Since the thumb is sticking out sideways on the three sign, to me, it doesn't look like the three other fingers sticking up on the nine sign. (I'm sitting here making 3's, 6's, and 9's, looking at my hands, and I don't see any similarities.) Oh, well.
 
Last edited:
LoveBlue said:
Reba, not disagreeing with you but wanted to let you know that the book I'm using for my ASL class (through our School for the Deaf) shows cardinal #'s as palm in for 1 to 5.
It's the Signing Naturally book.
Click to expand...
Hey, it's OK to disagree with me. :giggle:

You are correct about the cardinal numbers. The way I described the number signs is in their base formations. From there, they are modified to fit the context of use.

For a really complete book of how to use numbers, I can recommend the book Numbering in America Sign Language, Number Signs for Everyone, by DawnSignPress.
 
Mountain Man said:
I said it was plausible, not that it was likely.

In my case, I still have a hell of a time differentiating between 7 and 8!
Click to expand...

And I still have trouble with d and f...so please don't ask me to fingerspell duck. :lol:
 
Reba said:
Good points.

Added info: When I first learned how to sign numbers, around 1968, it was with 1-5 facing outward. Just to jog my memory, I looked at my Lou Fant textbook from that time, and sure enough, the numbers all faced palm out. So maybe it has changed over time. (Back in those days, ASL was called Ameslan.)


Since the thumb is sticking out sideways on the three sign, to me, it doesn't look like the three other fingers sticking up on the nine sign. (I'm sitting here making 3's, 6's, and 9's, looking at my hands, and I don't see any similarities.) Oh, well.
Click to expand...

Yes, I do remember Ameslan when I was young back through the 60. That was why it was not mention as American Sign Language for ASL. I do learned how to sign from a Deaf pastor the old way. I was and am still learning new words that have change or add new sign word to our ASL vocabulary, now that we have new technology. I always sign the numbers facing outward to someone from 1 to 10.

I agree with you on the 3's, 6's, and 9's that don't seem to be any similar like the three but it is close enough to make it look like that. Still anyone who learned how to sign the numbers should sign the correct way to do that no matter if there is a three between 3's, 6's and 9's. They are just numbers to me. :cool2:
 
We did 16-19 today, and they're palm out. Like LoveBlue, this is based on Signing Naturally.
 
metalangel said:
We did 16-19 today, and they're palm out. Like LoveBlue, this is based on Signing Naturally.
Click to expand...

Technically, there are two movements for these numbers and the first movement begins with palm in and ends with palm out.
 
Tousi said:
Technically, there are two movements for these numbers and the first movement begins with palm in and ends with palm out.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I've noticed with younger generation, they'd use 16-19 using their finger to rub against the thumb. With the older deaf generation, they'd use 10-6, 10-7, so and on.
 
Jolie77 said:
Yeah. I've noticed with younger generation, they'd use 16-19 using their finger to rub against the thumb. With the older deaf generation, they'd use 10-6, 10-7, so and on.
Click to expand...



Jolie, shhh, shh, that's only for the natives and some really good terps! :lol:
 
Tousi said:
Aye, at its finest! :lol: Nevermind us, folks; we are just goofing off......
Click to expand...

Bad news for you guys, they could just go see both those versions at Signing Savvy. :lol:

By the way somewhere in a dusty pile, I do have a book of Ameslan instruction.
 
Tousi said:
Technically, there are two movements for these numbers and the first movement begins with palm in and ends with palm out.
Click to expand...
There are variations for 16-19. One variation starts with palm facing in a modified 10 handshape (the thumb is held lower), then the hand is flipped to palm out while signing the second digit. The second variation has palm out signing the second digit (so signing 18, you'd use the 8 handshape) while rubbing the lowered finger against the inside of the thumb (in the case of 18, it'd be your middle finger).

Numbers are fun because there are so many variations. In Ohio (and apparently no where else) it is acceptable to sign 30, 40, 50, etc. by wiggling the hand. So you'd sign 3 and shake it a couple of times to indicate 30.

Personally, I love the fact that I can count from 1 to 999 using just one hand.
 
Tousi said:
Jolie, shhh, shh, that's only for the natives and some really good terps! :lol:
Click to expand...

:ugh: Yesterday was quite an intense class with a lot to take in, so my brain is a bit burnt but I think that's how I did it for the video assignment... 10-6, not flicking the 6 twice palm in to out.
 
Mountain Man said:
There are variations for 16-19. One variation starts with palm facing in a modified 10 handshape (the thumb is held lower), then the hand is flipped to palm out while signing the second digit.
Click to expand...
That is traditional ASL.

The second variation has palm out signing the second digit (so signing 18, you'd use the 8 handshape) while rubbing the lowered finger against the inside of the thumb (in the case of 18, it'd be your middle finger).
Click to expand...
Around here, that's understood to be a mainstream schools variation.

Numbers are fun because there are so many variations. In Ohio (and apparently no where else) it is acceptable to sign 30, 40, 50, etc. by wiggling the hand. So you'd sign 3 and shake it a couple of times to indicate 30.
Click to expand...
It's used around here, too.

I like the short-sign for the hundreds (100-500), 3-claw, 4-claw, etc., for 300, 400, respectively.
 
Here's a question for you:

How do you sign 23, 24, 26, 27, 28 and 29? :)

(Since 20, 21, 22, and 25 have unique signs, I didn't include them in the question.)
 
Reba said:
Here's a question for you:

How do you sign 23, 24, 26, 27, 28 and 29? :)

(Since 20, 21, 22, and 25 have unique signs, I didn't include them in the question.)
Click to expand...


Please do tell. I was just thinking about that yesterday (and haven't bothered to look it up). When I first tried doing it I realized that I was probably doing 33, 34, etc. I knew 20, 21 & 22 were different, but didn't know about 25.
 
LoveBlue said:
Please do tell. I was just thinking about that yesterday (and haven't bothered to look it up). When I first tried doing it I realized that I was probably doing 33, 34, etc. I knew 20, 21 & 22 were different, but didn't know about 25.
Click to expand...
The 25 sign is palm out, fingertips up. Start with a 5-hand shape, bend down middle and ring fingers together, wiggle up and down.

Other than the "special" numbers, the 20's are formed with an L-shape+second number, not a V-shape+other number. (V+8 is a vegetable drink, not a "28".)
 
I have a habit of doing 1 through 5 palm out, but i usually pause and catch myself and think about it and do palm in. I do 6 through 10 palm out, 11 through 15 palm in and 16 through twenty out and so on and so forth.
 
Back
Top