Mother seeks girl's hysterectomy

Liebling:-))) said:
I personally beleive that the doctors aware about cons/pros over surgery and give his/her positive to Katie´s mother but she see different and use Ashley´s situation as advantage.

Why? Because it should be between Katie, mother and doctor/professor, not public. Why public for? It tells alot....
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Katie's mother can not have her daughter sterilised on request. Nobody can. Even the doctors can not do that - that is why they all wrote the petition to the government to approve this surgery. And they weren't seeking publicity, it just happened.

Doctors are now seeking legal approval before carrying out the surgery.
Click to expand...


Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
easy easy - I am saying I never heard of such silliness as a womb being a form of birth control. (on the contrary - it always seemed to me to be rather a symbol of fertility)

The abusers are not stupid, and using condoms will suffice to have rape goes undetested for years!... Just think a little... sheesh.

Fuzzy
Click to expand...

Nor did I say that a removal of a womb was used as a form of birth control. However, without a womb, one is unable to conceive. Theefore, a child who has had a hysterectomy is unable to concieve. Being unable to conceive could, conceivably, place that child at greater risk for sexual abuse, as there is no chance that she will become pregnant as a result of that abuse. Thanks to DNA testing, it also places the abuser int he position of taking less risk of being caught and convicted of such. Rapists do not generally use condoms. If they did, we would not be obtaining so many convictions of rape based on DNA evidence. The fact that a disabled child is unable to speak up and let anyone know that they are being abused puts them at increased risk. The fact that the disabled child is also unable to conceive would increase the already high risk of being abused. The whole motivation of the abuser is to be able to continue their behavior undetected. Being undable to report the abuse, and being unable to conceive insures that the behavior will most likely go undetected. You are the one that needs to think.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
what I am saying is that Katie's mother wouldn't mind to change Katie's tampons while washing her pooped butt.

Fuzzy
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And perhaps you should think twice before speaking for what another person would and would not mind. Unless, that is you have an uncanny power to read another person's mind. From the many times you have misinterpreted clear and concise messages that others have understood, I doubt seriously that you possess any such powers.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Katie's mother can not have her daughter sterilised on request. Nobody can. Even the doctors can not do that - that is why they all wrote the petition to the government to approve this surgery. And they weren't seeking publicity, it just happened.




Fuzzy
Click to expand...

And to legalize such a procedure is a step toward the practice of eugenics. Who is to make the determination of level of functioning necessary. The whole idea of passing law in support of madated surgery violates too many ethics and gives too much power ot select individuals. What's next? Making it legal to euthanize those who are in chronic pain? Making it legal for an adult offspring to order a overdose of drugs because caring for an aging parent has become a burden?
 
shel90 said:
I think doing the surgery is kinda extreme especially if the mother doesnt know how Katie will react to her periods. Also, like Jillo said, there are pills to stop the menstral cycle or to reduce the pain of the cramps.

If the periods prove to be too painful and Katie cant handle them, then try the pills..if they dont work, then do the surgery. I believe in using surgery as the last resort or for life threatening conditions.
Click to expand...

Agreed that surgery should be the last resort unless there's a life/death situation in order to save one's life.
 
What homeopathics do you have in mind?

Hi Fuzzy,

There is a web site called ABC homeopathy.
A practitioner or even this ladies mom could
go there and use this web site to treat her
daughter. It would have to be someone who
knows her daughter and can answer some ot
the questions on the form. Like, Is the pain
worse in AM or PM. Is the cycle regular or
not regular, are the pains worse with meals
or on an empty stomach.

Usually there are two or three pages of
questions and then the program will
recomend the the top 10 homeopathics
for use. It is recomended that the
top 3 that match be taken.

"These homeopathic medicines, taken at the onset of the pain, should alleviate the cramping pains, irritability and other associated disorders: Cimicifuga 12C and Magnesia Phosphorica 12C. Cimicifuga, a homeopathic dilution of black snakeroot, is indicated for cramping uterine pains proportional to the menstrual flow and accompanied by back pains. Magnesia Phosphorica, a homeopathic dilution of phosphate of magnesia, is particularly useful in very severe cramping improved by bending over, applying strong pressure and warmth.

There are homeopathic combination formulas available for PMS and menstrual cramps that combine single medicines in a convenient, pre-measured dosage. Because multi-ingredient homeopathic products contain several medicines geared toward alleviating one or more symptoms, they may offer a more convenient alternative to single medicines."

In addition red raspberry leaf tea will
often assist in regulating a womans cycle.
also here is the list of homeopathics that
combined will lighten your period.

This is the ingrediants of a premeasured formula.
What are the Ingredients?

Native Remedies' products are created using our Full Spectrum Approach™ (FSA), a set of standards and processes that combines the best quality, laboratory-tested, raw ingredients, good manufacturing practices and a Full Spectrum manufacturing method to guarantee you products of the highest quality, safety and effectiveness.

This product contains no animal products, gluten, artificial colors, flavors or preservatives, is suitable for lacto-vegetarians, is not tested on animals, and backed by our One Year Unconditional Money Back Guarantee.

* Artemisia vulgaris is a traditional herb commonly used for menstrual difficulties and the perimenopausal period. Considered by the ancient Anglo-Saxons to be one of the nine sacred herbs, Artemisia vulgaris is very effective in regulating menstruation and relieving menstrual pains.
* Capsella bursa-pastoris has been used since the 19th century for bleeding problems including blood in the urine, bruises and heavy menstruation.
* Calendula officinalis is used as a menstrual cycle regulator in naturopathic medicine. This herb is excellent for women who suffer from irregular periods and will also relieve pain associated with menstruation.
* Viburnum opulus is also known as Cramp Bark and is known to ease nervous tension as well as relax the uterus, relieving menstrual cramps.
* China (30C) is also known as Cinchona and is a homeopathic ingredient used to remedy anemia resulting from breast-feeding, diarrhea or excessive menstrual bleeding. China will increase physical stamina and energy.
* Calc. Carb (30C) is a homeopathic remedy for heavy menstrual bleeding as well as relief of swollen and tender breasts related to PMS.
* Sepia (30C) is excellent for treating PMS, menstrual cramps and mood swings from hormone imbalance.
* Belladonna (30C) is also a homeopathic remedy and is very useful for regulating menorrhagia.

This is combined in a product called:mens-reduce and can be bought
on line. I have no affiliation with it.
 
jillio said:
Nor did I say that a removal of a womb was used as a form of birth control. However, without a womb, one is unable to conceive. Theefore, a child who has had a hysterectomy is unable to concieve. Being unable to conceive could, conceivably, place that child at greater risk for sexual abuse, as there is no chance that she will become pregnant as a result of that abuse. Thanks to DNA testing, it also places the abuser int he position of taking less risk of being caught and convicted of such. Rapists do not generally use condoms. If they did, we would not be obtaining so many convictions of rape based on DNA evidence. The fact that a disabled child is unable to speak up and let anyone know that they are being abused puts them at increased risk. The fact that the disabled child is also unable to conceive would increase the already high risk of being abused. The whole motivation of the abuser is to be able to continue their behavior undetected. Being undable to report the abuse, and being unable to conceive insures that the behavior will most likely go undetected. You are the one that needs to think.
Click to expand...


let's not get carried away.... also, let's not forget Katie's at home with her parents, and hopefully the chances of Katie's being given up for adoption are minimal.


Being unable to conceive could, conceivably, place that child at greater risk for sexual abuse

I disagree. how many abused children healthy or mentally retarded have wombs removed? and yet still, sadly the abuse happens, sometimes for years.

The fact that a disabled child is unable to speak up and let anyone know that they are being abused puts them at increased risk.


That I can agree with, and that is why it depends on careful monitoring of a disabled child and through medical care to prevent or detect such abuse.

Fuzzy



Fuzzy
 
fredfam1 said:
What homeopathics do you have in mind?

Hi Fuzzy,

There is a web site called ABC homeopathy.
A practitioner or even this ladies mom could
go there and use this web site to treat her
daughter. It would have to be someone who
knows her daughter and can answer some ot
the questions on the form. Like, Is the pain
worse in AM or PM. Is the cycle regular or
not regular, are the pains worse with meals
or on an empty stomach.

Usually there are two or three pages of
questions and then the program will
recomend the the top 10 homeopathics
for use. It is recomended that the
top 3 that match be taken.

"These homeopathic medicines, taken at the onset of the pain, should alleviate the cramping pains, irritability and other associated disorders: Cimicifuga 12C and Magnesia Phosphorica 12C. Cimicifuga, a homeopathic dilution of black snakeroot, is indicated for cramping uterine pains proportional to the menstrual flow and accompanied by back pains. Magnesia Phosphorica, a homeopathic dilution of phosphate of magnesia, is particularly useful in very severe cramping improved by bending over, applying strong pressure and warmth.

There are homeopathic combination formulas available for PMS and menstrual cramps that combine single medicines in a convenient, pre-measured dosage. Because multi-ingredient homeopathic products contain several medicines geared toward alleviating one or more symptoms, they may offer a more convenient alternative to single medicines."

In addition red raspberry leaf tea will
often assist in regulating a womans cycle.
also here is the list of homeopathics that
combined will lighten your period.

This is the ingrediants of a premeasured formula.
What are the Ingredients?

Native Remedies' products are created using our Full Spectrum Approach™ (FSA), a set of standards and processes that combines the best quality, laboratory-tested, raw ingredients, good manufacturing practices and a Full Spectrum manufacturing method to guarantee you products of the highest quality, safety and effectiveness.

This product contains no animal products, gluten, artificial colors, flavors or preservatives, is suitable for lacto-vegetarians, is not tested on animals, and backed by our One Year Unconditional Money Back Guarantee.

* Artemisia vulgaris is a traditional herb commonly used for menstrual difficulties and the perimenopausal period. Considered by the ancient Anglo-Saxons to be one of the nine sacred herbs, Artemisia vulgaris is very effective in regulating menstruation and relieving menstrual pains.
* Capsella bursa-pastoris has been used since the 19th century for bleeding problems including blood in the urine, bruises and heavy menstruation.
* Calendula officinalis is used as a menstrual cycle regulator in naturopathic medicine. This herb is excellent for women who suffer from irregular periods and will also relieve pain associated with menstruation.
* Viburnum opulus is also known as Cramp Bark and is known to ease nervous tension as well as relax the uterus, relieving menstrual cramps.
* China (30C) is also known as Cinchona and is a homeopathic ingredient used to remedy anemia resulting from breast-feeding, diarrhea or excessive menstrual bleeding. China will increase physical stamina and energy.
* Calc. Carb (30C) is a homeopathic remedy for heavy menstrual bleeding as well as relief of swollen and tender breasts related to PMS.
* Sepia (30C) is excellent for treating PMS, menstrual cramps and mood swings from hormone imbalance.
* Belladonna (30C) is also a homeopathic remedy and is very useful for regulating menorrhagia.

This is combined in a product called:mens-reduce and can be bought
on line. I have no affiliation with it.
Click to expand...


Thanks. They are all rather mild, and Belladonna is sometimes used as painkiller. I doubt they would be able to stop menstruation altogether.


Fuzzy
 
jillio said:
And perhaps you should think twice before speaking for what another person would and would not mind. Unless, that is you have an uncanny power to read another person's mind. From the many times you have misinterpreted clear and concise messages that others have understood, I doubt seriously that you possess any such powers.
Click to expand...


Oh like YOU don't and never did it yourself ... :whistle:

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
let's not get carried away.... also, let's not forget Katie's at home with her parents, and hopefully the chances of Katie's being given up for adoption are minimal.


Being unable to conceive could, conceivably, place that child at greater risk for sexual abuse

I disagree. how many abused children healthy or mentally retarded have wombs removed? and yet still, sadly the abuse happens, sometimes for years.

The fact that a disabled child is unable to speak up and let anyone know that they are being abused puts them at increased risk.


That I can agree with, and that is why it depends on careful monitoring of a disabled child and through medical care to prevent or detect such abuse.

Fuzzy



Fuzzy
Click to expand...

Exactly. They are at increased risk already. Being unable to conceive increases the risk, for the very same reason that being unable to report the abuse increases the risk. It reduces the risk of the abusers behavior being detected. If one circumstance increases the risk, it stands to reason that anything that would decrease the abuser's risk of being caught increases the risk of someone already vunerable being put at greater risk. As risk of being caught goes down, the risk of the behavior becoming more prevalent goes up.

Examinations to detect sexual abuse are traumatic for victims to begin with. Such exams are not a routine part of monitoring for just that reason. Exams are performed only when abuse is suspected, or more often, after it has been reported. Likewise, medical exams are only useful in detecting abuse that has occurred. They do nothing to prevent.
 
jillio said:
And to legalize such a procedure is a step toward the practice of eugenics. Who is to make the determination of level of functioning necessary. The whole idea of passing law in support of madated surgery violates too many ethics and gives too much power ot select individuals. What's next? Making it legal to euthanize those who are in chronic pain? Making it legal for an adult offspring to order a overdose of drugs because caring for an aging parent has become a burden?
Click to expand...

Easy, easy, don't get your pants in a wad. Standing back and not doing anything ever is another end of extreme, which is not good either.
This is one thing to have one severly mentally retarded child to have hysterectomy, another to put your aging parents to sleep. Thank God, most pple have enough common sense to judge such things.

BTW in Western Europe - Holland- euthanasia is legal.

Fuzzy
 
Thanks. They are all rather mild, and Belladonna is sometimes used as painkiller. I doubt they would be able to stop menstruation altogether.


A skilled natriopathic doctor can combine these formulas based on
an individuals need. My ND did this for one of my daugters. It stopped
her cycle for the duration that we needed it to.

A skilled practitioner would be needed, but this should meet the needs
on this family. Removing an organ is so drastic.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Easy, easy, don't get your pants in a wad. Standing back and not doing anything ever is another end of extreme, which is not good either.
This is one thing to have one severly mentally retarded child to have hysterectomy, another to put your aging parents to sleep. Thank God, most pple have enough common sense to judge such things.

BTW in Western Europe - Holland- euthanasia is legal.

Fuzzy
Click to expand...

But once you start down that slippery slope of allowing medical procedures as a way to alleviate the burden of care, you open the door for it to be expanded upon.

And BTW, euthanasia is not legal in Western Europe and Holland....PAS is. Two very different concepts in both theory and practice. And BTW PAS is also legal in Oregon.

And, if you will read my post, I said "a step towards". Once again, your concrete thinking is getting in the way of your comprehension.
 
You know- it's physician assisted suicide. a rose is a rose by any other name.

Fuzzy
 
Hysterectomy raises incontinence surgery risk

Hysterectomy raises incontinence surgery risk

Study: Women who had uterus removed had double the urethra problems

Updated: 1:57 p.m. ET Oct. 26, 2007

HONG KONG - Women who have undergone hysterectomy, or removal of the womb, are at higher risk of urinary incontinence that needs to be corrected by surgery later on, a 30-year Swedish study has found.

The risk is especially high for women who have given birth to more than one child vaginally, the researchers wrote in the latest issue of The Lancet journal, urging more caution.

“Women should be counseled about associated long-term risks related to hysterectomy, and other therapeutic options should be considered before radical methods of treatment,” they wrote.


Hysterectomy may be partial or complete and is done to remove cancers of the reproductive system, postmenopausal bleeding, collapse of the uterus or uterine prolapse, and some other disorders.

In the United States, 600,000 hysterectomies are undertaken each year, of which 90 percent are done for benign reasons, or non-cancer and other non-life-threatening conditions. One in five British women will have undergone a hysterectomy by age 55.

Between 1973 and 2003, researchers in Sweden tracked 165,260 women who had undergone hysterectomies and compared them to 479,506 other women who had not had the procedure.

They found the risk of undergoing stress urinary incontinence surgery (SUIS) was 2.4 times higher in the hysterectomy group than the control group.

“The highest overall risk was within five years of hysterectomy, when patients in the exposed group were 2.7 times more likely than those in the unexposed group to require SUIS. The lowest risk was seen in patients more than 10 years after hysterectomy, when the risk was 2.1 times higher for exposed patients,” they said.

The worst were women who had had four or more vaginal births, who faced a 16-fold higher risk of undergoing SUIS.

The authors believe hysterectomies may interfere with the complex workings of the urethra, the tube connecting the urinary bladder to the outside of the body.

“The most biologically plausible rationale for this association is surgical trauma caused when the uterus and cervix are severed from pelvic-floor supportive tissues at the time of hysterectomy,” they wrote.

“Hysterectomy could interfere with the intricate urethral sphincter mechanism ... it might also result in changes of urethral and bladder neck support.”
Click to expand...

Hysterectomy raises incontinence surgery risk - More Health News - MSNBC.com
 
Audiofuzzy said:
You know- it's physician assisted suicide. a rose is a rose by any other name.

Fuzzy
Click to expand...

No, fuzzy, there are very distinct differences between PAS and euthanasia, both legal and ethical. One is determined by passive particiaption of the medical professional, the other requires active participation. There is a huge difference between the two. Inform yourself before you speak.
 
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