Marvel at the beauty of Michael Moore's 10,000 sq ft summer mansion!

[DaveM]

I found his intro thread and the underhanded putdown of the collectivist model of Deaf Culture to be a little unsettling to tell you the truth.

Oh wow, I am sorry if I offended you in any way.

Many hearing people in my class have stereotyped the deaf as they somehow all hold the same monolithic viewpoints because they share a lack of hearing.

In the short time I've been here I've enjoyed the conversations I've had with some of the deaf on board, and I hope that I can become good enough at ASL to converse that way in person.

No offense meant and since I believe you were the first to bring this up, I hope others didn't take it the same way.

 

[jillio]

Oh wow, I am sorry if I offended you in any way.

Many hearing people in my class have stereotyped the deaf as they somehow all hold the same monolithic viewpoints because they share a lack of hearing.

In the short time I've been here I've enjoyed the conversations I've had with some of the deaf on board, and I hope that I can become good enough at ASL to converse that way in person.

No offense meant and since I believe you were the first to bring this up, I hope others didn't take it the same way.

Might want to take the time to do a little cultural study with that ASL. Just saying.

 

[DeafCaroline]

If we can define a minimum it takes to be a 1%, then we can get somewhere with the argument.

Personally, I'd say Moore used to be the 99% until he made cash on his docs and books. That's how he made it into the 1%.

So he's not actually someone who grew up in the 1%, he's someone from the 99% who made it into the 1% from his business venues.

The 1% - that term came from a documentary of the same name - it refers to the 1% of Americans owning 42% of America's wealth in 2004.

Michael Moore is nowhere close to owning even a .01 % of America's wealth. No, he's not a 1 percenter.

 

[DaveM]

As did I. But then I discussed hate crimes with him, and realized his multicultural competence leave much to be desired.

Sorry that you felt that way. I thought a debate thread had room for two opposing viewpoints engaging in a civil manner.

I just respectfully disagree with you, jillio. I make no judgements on you personally.

Diversity includes the diversity of opinion, btw.

 

[TWA]

Oh wow, I am sorry if I offended you in any way.

Many hearing people in my class have stereotyped the deaf as they somehow all hold the same monolithic viewpoints because they share a lack of hearing.

In the short time I've been here I've enjoyed the conversations I've had with some of the deaf on board, and I hope that I can become good enough at ASL to converse that way in person.

No offense meant and since I believe you were the first to bring this up, I hope others didn't take it the same way.

If that's what you were addressing in your intro, then, oh wow, I'm glad you figured out that we really are all individuals!!!!

Perhaps you don't have much information about Deaf culture, which is a very collectivist, needs-of-community-go-before-needs-of-individual type of community. The "you are all individuals" comment seemed to fly right in the face of that. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[TXgolfer]

Oh wow, I am sorry if I offended you in any way.

Many hearing people in my class have stereotyped the deaf as they somehow all hold the same monolithic viewpoints because they share a lack of hearing.

In the short time I've been here I've enjoyed the conversations I've had with some of the deaf on board, and I hope that I can become good enough at ASL to converse that way in person.

No offense meant and since I believe you were the first to bring this up, I hope others didn't take it the same way.

Heh, nah it's pretty much just like politics.

 

[jillio]

Sorry that you felt that way. I thought a debate thread had room for two opposing viewpoints engaging in a civil manner.

I just respectfully disagree with you, jillio. I make no judgements on you personally.

Diversity includes the diversity of opinion, btw.

Certainly it has room for opposing viewpoints. Mine apparently is opposed to yours, as I take a multicultural perspective. You on the other hand, ignore culture, race, and ethnicity, and the impact it has on the individual. If you wish to do that in your private life, fine with me. It simply means you will have difficulty crossing cultural lines. But you inserted it into a therapeutic context by claiming that you were a counselor. That attitude in the field of mental health is unnaceptable and contrary to the code of ethics. I will point that out anytime I see it. Then I discover that you were misrepresenting yourself, and you are a music therapist with a certificate, not a licensed counselor working with the dually diagnosed African American population as you originally represented.

 

[jillio]

If that's what you were addressing in your intro, then, oh wow, I'm glad you figured out that we really are all individuals!!!!

Perhaps you don't have much information about Deaf culture, which is a very collectivist, needs-of-community-go-before-needs-of-individual type of community. The "you are all individuals" comment seemed to fly right in the face of that. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Nope. He doesn't believe that race, culture, or ethnicity should be considered in the impact it has on the individual.

 

[DaveM]

Certainly it has room for opposing viewpoints. Mine apparently is opposed to yours, as I take a multicultural perspective. You on the other hand, ignore culture, race, and ethnicity, and the impact it has on the individual. If you wish to do that in your private life, fine with me. It simply means you will have difficulty crossing cultural lines. But you inserted it into a therapeutic context by claiming that you were a counselor. That attitude in the field of mental health is unnaceptable and contrary to the code of ethics. I will point that out anytime I see it. Then I discover that you were misrepresenting yourself, and you are a music therapist with a certificate, not a licensed counselor working with the dually diagnosed African American population as you originally represented.

Sometimes life isn't always about color. And sometimes teaching guitar to homeless addicts with schizophrenia as part of their IOP recovery schedule, is just that.

Thank you for your input, though. I'll pass it on to the Community Behavioral Health board.

 

[deafskeptic]

Nope. He doesn't believe that race, culture, or ethnicity should be considered in the impact it has on the individual.

There's going to be problems with that approach.

 

[DaveM]

Nope. He doesn't believe that race, culture, or ethnicity should be considered in the impact it has on the individual.

I used to have fun debating here with you. Is there a reason you need to get personal?

 

[DaveM]

There's going to be problems with that approach.

I do not believe that, deafskeptic.

Jillio is taking a cheap shot at me and stereotyping me because she disagrees with my politics.

 

[naisho]

The 1% - that term came from a documentary of the same name - it refers to the 1% of Americans owning 42% of America's wealth in 2004.

Michael Moore is nowhere close to owning even a .01 % of America's wealth. No, he's not a 1 percenter.

Ahh, I see the clarification now. When I thought of 1%, I think of someone who has a set amount of money in combined assets: such as 5 million, maybe 10 million.

If we talk about the 1% as those who own 42% of america's wealth, by the forbes link I posted earlier I'd agree with the statement that Moore doesn't even own a fraction of that 42%.

 

[deafskeptic]

I do not believe that, deafskeptic.

Jillio is taking a cheap shot at me and stereotyping me because she disagrees with my politics.

I've made the same mistake in the past. I have said that i've been audist in the past a while ago. So yes, I'm in a position to speak.

 

[deafskeptic]

I've made the same mistake in the past. I have said that i've been audist in the past a while ago. So yes, I'm in a position to speak.

And others have tried the same approach with me with dismal results education wise.

 

[DeafBadger]

If that's what you were addressing in your intro, then, oh wow, I'm glad you figured out that we really are all individuals!!!!

Perhaps you don't have much information about Deaf culture, which is a very collectivist, needs-of-community-go-before-needs-of-individual type of community. The "you are all individuals" comment seemed to fly right in the face of that. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe it's because I've always gone my own way life so far, but I didn't interpret his intro as insulting. I took it as a compliment that he recognized the individuality of those in our deaf community.

What I took that to mean was that he was saying that we are not conformists. We are a community, yes, but we are not conformists.

Obviously, we are not; just look at this thread.

I've traveled through other social groups and many of them show a lot of conformity. And besides that, a lot of people go through life afraid of thinking outside the box or living outside the box. True non-conformity and having the courage to stand up for it is relatively rare in my experience.

So I took it as a compliment that he was praising our individuality; which I took to mean, praising our non-conformity.

Unless he meant it differently, which wasn't clear to me.

 

[darkdog]

The 1% - that term came from a documentary of the same name - it refers to the 1% of Americans owning 42% of America's wealth in 2004.

Michael Moore is nowhere close to owning even a .01 % of America's wealth. No, he's not a 1 percenter.

The dude who's suing for $2.7 million on top of the $20 million or so he already made on just one film? That's not the 1%?

By the way, to own .01% of America's wealth, you'd have to own about $5 billion. If that's the qualification for being in the 1%, fewer than 100 people qualify.

 

[TWA]

Maybe it's because I've always gone my own way life so far, but I didn't interpret his intro as insulting. I took it as a compliment that he recognized the individuality of those in our deaf community.

What I took that to mean was that he was saying that we are not conformists. We are a community, yes, but we are not conformists.

Obviously, we are not; just look at this thread.

I've traveled through other social groups and many of them show a lot of conformity. And besides that, a lot of people go through life afraid of thinking outside the box or living outside the box. True non-conformity and having the courage to stand up for it is relatively rare in my experience.

So I took it as a compliment that he was praising our individuality; which I took to mean, praising our non-conformity.

Unless he meant it differently, which wasn't clear to me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are only just starting to learn ASL and have only recently begun made forays into the Deaf community. No? Please let me know how you feel about this comment in two years, after you've been a little more entrenched. It's great that you're discovering your Deaf identity, but there's still a lot for you to learn. I'm still learning a lot myself.

Also, you don't find the "praising our individuality" part just a little bit patronizing? I mean, wow, who woulda thunk that deaf people were individuals??? :roll:

 

[DaveM]

Maybe it's because I've always gone my own way life so far, but I didn't interpret his intro as insulting. I took it as a compliment that he recognized the individuality of those in our deaf community.

What I took that to mean was that he was saying that we are not conformists. We are a community, yes, but we are not conformists.

Obviously, we are not; just look at this thread.

I've traveled through other social groups and many of them show a lot of conformity. And besides that, a lot of people go through life afraid of thinking outside the box or living outside the box. True non-conformity and having the courage to stand up for it is relatively rare in my experience.

So I took it as a compliment that he was praising our individuality; which I took to mean, praising our non-conformity.

Unless he meant it differently, which wasn't clear to me.

Thank you, DeafBadger that was exactly how I meant it! You've just articulated it better than I did!

 

[DaveM]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are only just starting to learn ASL and have only recently begun made forays into the Deaf community. No? Please let me know how you feel about this comment in two years, after you've been a little more entrenched. It's great that you're discovering your Deaf identity, but there's still a lot for you to learn. I'm still learning a lot myself.

Also, you don't find the "praising our individuality" part just a little bit patronizing? I mean, wow, who woulda thunk that deaf people were individuals??? :roll:

Yeah, for someone who's first reply to me was:

"Great, just what we need; another misinformed conservative posting biased misinformation. You're going to be real popular around here" at post #13

I'm not sure I would value your opinion on pre-judging or patronizing as much as I would value others here. Especially as you just felt the need to patronize DeafBadger.