Making small talk with hearing strangers

[adelaster]

You don't make me angry. Why are you putting this tears emoticon if someone's parents didn't learn ASL?

That is pity in my eyes.

Why should you apologize to Kristina? You didn't do anything to her.

Why are you obsessed with deaf communication your entire life?

Why does it break your heart?

First off, thanks to postsfromhell- I think you dig what I'm trying to say.

In answer to your questions Bottesini:

-I apologized to Kristina because I'm embarrassed a library would treat her with consistent disrespect like that. Having worked in libraries since High School I associate myself with them and when one library acts badly it reflects on all of us, in a sense.

-I am obsessed with communication in general. I've studied many languages. ASL caught my attention early on because for the first 7 years of my life we lived across the street from a deaf couple. I like to know things.

-It breaks my heart when people don't care, and don't respect one another. period. Any situation.

Hope that clears things up.

 

[shel90]

First off, thanks to postsfromhell- I think you dig what I'm trying to say.

In answer to your questions Bottesini:

-I apologized to Kristina because I'm embarrassed a library would treat her with consistent disrespect like that. Having worked in libraries since High School I associate myself with them and when one library acts badly it reflects on all of us, in a sense.

-I am obsessed with communication in general. I've studied many languages. ASL caught my attention early on because for the first 7 years of my life we lived across the street from a deaf couple. I like to know things.

-It breaks my heart when people don't care, and don't respect one another. period. Any situation.

Hope that clears things up.

It makes sense to me. That's who you are.

I read a poster on my dr's office..

It said .."don't apologize for your opinions or who you are." Something like that. That was on Wed...it made me think a lot and I realized that if I get someone upset because of I who I am or what I think..it is not the end of the world. Important I continue to be true to myself.
I like and respect Botts but I understand what u are saying.

 

[jillio]

I guess the part where I get lost is when someone allows the conversation to progress when they don't understand. I have never been deaf, but I can't imagine just pretending I understand when I don't. (When I go to Deaf community stuff, I don't just nod, I ask for help when I don't understand. I'm an equal in the communication, I deserve to know.) My daughter is the same way, if she doesn't understand, she asks and we explain.

Therein lies the biggest problem...you are not deaf, and you are incapable of imagining what it is to be deaf and the ways in which they are forced to cope with it at the hands of a hearing society. If you could do that, your perspective would change dramatically. But I really don't see it happening anytime soon. Your hearing perspective and your belief that because you are hearing you have the right to dictate to the deaf is far too entrenched at this point. I feel sorry for you. You are cutting yourself off from a world of enrichment.

 

[faire_jour]

Botts - take it easy

Its a sad thing when a parent doesnt have the tools to communicate with their own kids. Thats a very common issue. It's not pity, its actually sad.

Shes apologizing on behalf of all librarians so they all dont get perceived as the same.

But the truth is that the vast majority of deaf children don't know ASL, so their parents don't learn ASL because they don't use it. It isn't like there are thosands of ASL using kids whose parents just choose not to learn ASL, that is actually a much smaller number.

 

[faire_jour]

Therein lies the biggest problem...you are not deaf, and you are incapable of imagining what it is to be deaf and the ways in which they are forced to cope with it at the hands of a hearing society. If you could do that, your perspective would change dramatically. But I really don't see it happening anytime soon. Your hearing perspective and your belief that because you are hearing you have the right to dictate to the deaf is far too entrenched at this point. I feel sorry for you. You are cutting yourself off from a world of enrichment.

Give me a single example of this. When have I ever said that my decisions are better than, or for ANY deaf person (other than the decision I must make for my child)???

Oh, and you realize you aren't deaf either, right? So you can no more imagine or understand it than I can..

 

[jillio]

But the truth is that the vast majority of deaf children don't know ASL, so their parents don't learn ASL because they don't use it. It isn't like there are thosands of ASL using kids whose parents just choose not to learn ASL, that is actually a much smaller number.

The vast majority of children don't lnow ASL because their parents never bothered to learn it and expose them to it. You act like they should have come out of the womb knowing ASL to give their parents a reason for learning it.

The only reason a parent needs is that their child is deaf and they need to communicate in the least encumbered, most effective, most natural way, with that child.

 

[Jiro]

Give me a single example of this. When have I ever said that my decisions are better than, or for ANY deaf person (other than the decision I must make for my child)???

Oh, and you realize you aren't deaf either, right? So you can no more imagine or understand it than I can..

but both of your and her reasonings are different. as you can see here - lot of ADers do not agree with your reasoning.

You feel at ease that Miss Kat has advantage by being able to hear

 

[jillio]

Give me a single example of this. When have I ever said that my decisions are better than, or for ANY deaf person (other than the decision I must make for my child)???

Oh, and you realize you aren't deaf either, right? So you can no more imagine or understand it than I can..

Examples are numerous throughout AD. It comes across in nearly everything you post. I am not the only one to see it.

No, I am not deaf. However, I have spent the last 24 years paying attention to what Deaf/deaf people tell me their experience is and giving validity to that experience. Therefore, I am able to empathize and understand the Deaf/deaf perspective. I have no need to tell them that they are wrong, or their opinions are "not the way it is". Of course they are not wrong; they live it every day of their lives. That is the difference between you and I, FJ. I hear what they are telling me, and validate it. I even see it as true. You, on the other hand, spend all your time trying to convince them that you understand, while your words are coming from a very audist perspective and show a complete lack of understanding. Incongruency.

 

[Bottesini]

but both of your and her reasonings are different. as you can see here - lot of ADers do not agree with your reasoning.

But Faire Jour and Jillio have one thing in common that makes me like them both.

They both have deaf kids and not one ounce of pity, but an attitude of get on with life!!

 

[faire_jour]

The vast majority of children don't lnow ASL because their parents never bothered to learn it and expose them to it. You act like they should have come out of the womb knowing ASL to give their parents a reason for learning it.

The only reason a parent needs is that their child is deaf and they need to communicate in the least encumbered, most effective, most natural way, with that child.

Actually, I am one of the few people who believe that deaf children can communicate in many different ways, NOT only ASL. I am saying that if a parent does not know ASL, it does not mean that they can not communicate with their deaf child.

 

[jillio]

But Faire Jour and Jillio have one thing in common that makes me like them both.

They both have deaf kids and not one ounce of pity, but an attitude of get on with life!!

There you go. It is what it is.

 

[jillio]

Actually, I am one of the few people who believe that deaf children can communicate in many different ways, NOT only ASL. I am saying that if a parent does not know ASL, it does not mean that they can not communicate with their deaf child.

Again, that last sentence comes from a hearing perspective.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

But the truth is that the vast majority of deaf children don't know ASL, so their parents don't learn ASL because they don't use it. It isn't like there are thosands of ASL using kids whose parents just choose not to learn ASL, that is actually a much smaller number.

Works the other way around. Kids don't know ASL because their parents don't know ASL as well; parents find learning ASL hard because they grew up in a monolingual environment and don't have the acquisition-learning skills multilingual people have. It's a vicious cycle, really.

I know, because the person, who babysat my animals one time, was raised in a multilingual household. Now, she goes to any country in the world, turns on a children's television show and learns the basics of the language sufficient enough to communicate with the locals. Most North Americans don't have this ability because they grew up in monolingual households.

 

[faire_jour]

Examples are numerous throughout AD. It comes across in nearly everything you post. I am not the only one to see it.

No, I am not deaf. However, I have spent the last 24 years paying attention to what Deaf/deaf people tell me their experience is and giving validity to that experience. Therefore, I am able to empathize and understand the Deaf/deaf perspective. I have no need to tell them that they are wrong, or their opinions are "not the way it is". Of course they are not wrong; they live it every day of their lives. That is the difference between you and I, FJ. I hear what they are telling me, and validate it. I even see it as true. You, on the other hand, spend all your time trying to convince them that you understand, while your words are coming from a very audist perspective and show a complete lack of understanding. Incongruency.

Do you comprehend that I have also spoken to MANY deaf people? Perhaps, I have encountered people who have different opinions and life experience than those you have encountered. I make the decisions that work for MY child, and I give her the tools that she needs. Why you must take issue with EVERY SINGLE thing I do or say shows your insecurity with your decisions, not mine.

 

[CJB]

I don't think it's an insecurity issue so much as the fact that even if a deaf child can access speech through powerful HA's or a CI, they still need visual language as backup because any number of things can happen to HA's and CI's.

 

[faire_jour]

I don't think it's an insecurity issue so much as the fact that even if a deaf child can access speech through powerful HA's or a CI, they still need visual language as backup because any number of things can happen to HA's and CI's.

Personally, I agree with you, but that doesn't mean that I am right. There are plenty of families who have children who use spoken language, and do just fine. I wanted my child to use ASL and access listening and spoken language through a CI, but there are countless other ways for a deaf person to be successful in life.

 

[Jiro]

But Faire Jour and Jillio have one thing in common that makes me like them both.

They both have deaf kids and not one ounce of pity, but an attitude of get on with life!!

 

[jillio]

Works the other way around. Kids don't know ASL because their parents don't know ASL as well; parents find learning ASL hard because they grew up in a monolingual environment and don't have the acquisition-learning skills multilingual people have. It's a vicious cycle, really.

I know, because the person, who babysat my animals one time, was raised in a multilingual household. Now, she go to any country in the world, turn on a children's television show and learn the basics of the language sufficient enough to communicate with the locals. Most North Americans don't have this ability because they grew up in monolingual households.

Bingo. Had the sequence reversed. My son wouldn't have learned ASL had I not learned ASL and exposed him to fluent signers. The parents are the ones responsible for the situation.

 

[jillio]

Do you comprehend that I have also spoken to MANY deaf people? Perhaps, I have encountered people who have different opinions and life experience than those you have encountered. I make the decisions that work for MY child, and I give her the tools that she needs. Why you must take issue with EVERY SINGLE thing I do or say shows your insecurity with your decisions, not mine.

See, your word choice shows the perspective you are coming from. You have spoken to many deaf people. What you need to do is stop speaking and start listening and paying attention to what they are saying. You only hear enough to decide to get defensive and start trying to justify your point. Stop telling them they are wrong. They are not wrong. They are telling you what their experience is and has been, and it is a valuable lesson that you could use to educate yourself.

 

[shel90]

but both of your and her reasonings are different. as you can see here - lot of ADers do not agree with your reasoning.

You feel at ease that Miss Kat has advantage by being able to hear

U totally hit the nail on the head!