letter to family

jillio said:
Every care is taken to insure that the patient is not only stable enough to make such a decision, but that they understand all of the implications prior to the advance directive being carried out. Physicians nor hospitals take this as lightly as you seem to think they do.
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That's a very nieve assumtion to make.
 
dreama said:
That's a very nieve assumtion to make.
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It is not an assumption, nor is it naive. I have, in fact, been through this with both of my parents, and my brother. All 3 had advance directives, and provided me with their medical power of attorney. It was confirmed several times that they did not want to change their directive during their illnesses. Therefore, when they all lapsed into a coma, at the inevitable end of their life, the decision was already made. The directive was followed. I know how empathic the doctors were during this time. I know how empathic the nursing staff was at this time. I know how empathic the hospice workers were at this time. I have directly experienced it with the death of 3 family members.

I have also experienced the death of other family members and friends where an advance directive was not in place. Family members were forced into the position of having to make decisions without being certain of what their loved one would want in that situation. I have watched those people struggle with their decision, and I have watched them suffer over it long after their loved one was dead and buried.

I am grateful, indeed, that both of my parents and my brother were so caring and so loving as to have an advance directive in place. By doing so, they saved me the suffering I have seen so many others have to go through. My parents, nor my brother, wanted me to endure the pain that their not having an advance directive would have brought to me, the surviving family member. They were unselfish enough to consider the impact on those who are left behind. They were responsible enough to maintain their autonomy and their dignity right up to the moment of their deaths. And I will never, ever forget that last, final gift they gave me: the gift of doing the most loving thing one can do for their surviving family.
 
jillio said:
I am grateful, indeed, that both of my parents and my brother were so caring and so loving as to have an advance directive in place.
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Yes, I'm sure you are.

But it doesn't change anything that I've said.
 
dreama said:
Yes, I'm sure you are.

But it doesn't change anything that I've said.
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It doesn't change anything you've said, but it certainly adds a real life example and application to your hypothetical statements.
 
jillio said:
It doesn't change anything you've said, but it certainly adds a real life example and application to your hypothetical statements.
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Sure you give a real life example.

However, unless you provided them with a sip and puff computer which they learnt how to operate before hand or they were vocal until the last you really wouldn't know if they HAD changed their mind at the end.

I'm refering to people who lose the power of speech and movement WITHOUT losing the will of life, but because they directed their family members to kill them when they were able they are stick with their family members following their directories.

It seems wrong to me to die simply because of some short sightedness like this.
 
dreama said:
Sure you give a real life example.

However, unless you provided them with a sip and puff computer which they learnt how to operate before hand or they were vocal until the last you really wouldn't know if they HAD changed their mind at the end.

I'm refering to people who lose the power of speech and movement WITHOUT losing the will of life, but because they directed their family members to kill them when they were able they are stick with their family members following their directories.

It seems wrong to me to die simply because of some short sightedness like this.
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Couldn't you also say the reverse, dreama? Perhaps there wish was to be on life support no matter what but their wishes have changed and they have no way of communicating. It goes both ways.

I think it would be just as wrong to keep someone on life support when they had a change in will and wanted to let nature take its course.
 
I wish we have easy access to all kinds of accommodations, then our life would be as enjoyable as people who don't have any sort of disabilities, Then maybe people (including ourselves) won't see us as an burden to the society.
 
dreama said:
Sure you give a real life example.

However, unless you provided them with a sip and puff computer which they learnt how to operate before hand or they were vocal until the last you really wouldn't know if they HAD changed their mind at the end.

I'm refering to people who lose the power of speech and movement WITHOUT losing the will of life, but because they directed their family members to kill them when they were able they are stick with their family members following their directories.

It seems wrong to me to die simply because of some short sightedness like this.
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Read again, dreama. They all lapsed into a coma, and prior to becoming comatose, they were perfectly able to communicate verbally. They confirmed their decision prior to becoming comatose. A comatose person cannot communicate, no matter what adaptations or accommodations you provide. That is why it is important to have an advanced directive in place before an illness renders you comatose.
 
you have to be careful what is define as comatose. sometimes doctors put patients in a coma because of severe pain.

My aunt was in a coma for a long time after her car accident. She also have a tube breathing for her as well (you know the tube that goes in your neck to help you breath). She was also paralyze on her right side because she was hit on her left brain. I can't remember the exact detail because I was only 13 or 14 when all this happened. We spent many summer days and nights at the hospital being there for her. Anyway, She is still alive today, Walking and working. She still have some damage from the accident but she turned out great.
 
assisted sucide is somewhat dangerous. I asked someone what if someone change their mind at the last minute, how would they be able to communicate. One person actually told me "That's why they put them to sleep first so fear wouldn't change their mind"

My goodness, that sound like murder to me. you know, forbidding someone to speak out that they changed their mind. At least with real suicide, you know their decision is permanent.
 
Lighthouse77 said:
assisted sucide is somewhat dangerous. I asked someone what if someone change their mind at the last minute, how would they be able to communicate. One person actually told me "That's why they put them to sleep first so fear wouldn't change their mind"

My goodness, that sound like murder to me. you know, forbidding someone to speak out that they changed their mind. At least with real suicide, you know their decision is permanent.
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I know, it's really shocking that something like that happened.
My mom did change her mind because when she was well she said she didn't want to be a burden to us. Then when she was dying of cancer, she decided that she did want to live after all, even with all the pain that her cancer was causing her.
 
Lighthouse77 said:
you have to be careful what is define as comatose. sometimes doctors put patients in a coma because of severe pain.

My aunt was in a coma for a long time after her car accident. She also have a tube breathing for her as well (you know the tube that goes in your neck to help you breath). She was also paralyze on her right side because she was hit on her left brain. I can't remember the exact detail because I was only 13 or 14 when all this happened. We spent many summer days and nights at the hospital being there for her. Anyway, She is still alive today, Walking and working. She still have some damage from the accident but she turned out great.
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We aren't talking medically induced coma. That is a whole different topic.

And there are numerous ways to determine the level of coma and the extent of brain damage the individual has suffered.
 
Lighthouse77 said:
assisted sucide is somewhat dangerous. I asked someone what if someone change their mind at the last minute, how would they be able to communicate. One person actually told me "That's why they put them to sleep first so fear wouldn't change their mind"

My goodness, that sound like murder to me. you know, forbidding someone to speak out that they changed their mind. At least with real suicide, you know their decision is permanent.
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No one puts anyone to sleep in PAS. In fact, the patient has to be able to take the meds by their own hand. You really should inform yourself on the topic. I have posted any number of links that outline the restrictions and the criteria.
 
it doesn't really matter. if someone is like Michael Jackson , who had access to medicines that is enough to kill him, would they rule out assisted suicide or homicide? There will be doctors who act as Mercy Angel, and the bad part about it is that it would probably be hard to prove because the patient have already told this is what he wanted.

My point is that homicide would be very difficult to rule out in assisted suicide. Even if the person explained it over and over again that this is what he want.
 
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Lighthouse77 said:
it doesn't really matter. if someone is like Michael Jackson , who had access to medicines that is enough to kill him, would they rule out assisted suicide or homicide? There will be doctors who act as Mercy Angel, and the bad part about it is that it would probably be hard to prove because the patient have already told this is what he wanted.

My point is that homicide would be very difficult to rule out in assisted suicide. Even if the person explained it over and over again that this is what he want.
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Good point!
 
jillio said:
No one puts anyone to sleep in PAS. In fact, the patient has to be able to take the meds by their own hand. You really should inform yourself on the topic. I have posted any number of links that outline the restrictions and the criteria.
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I am very well informed on this matter. I don't believe literature from anyone who promotes death.
 
If Michael Jackson wanted assisted suicide, it would be on his medical file.

And... don't say "I don't believe in literature from anyone that promote (something you disagree with)"

I don't believe in Communism and I despise Communists, yet I still read the Marxist texts and the doctrines people send me. Why? You never know if there would be something of value.
 
souggy said:
If Michael Jackson wanted assisted suicide, it would be on his medical file.

And... don't say "I don't believe in literature from anyone that promote (something you disagree with)"

I don't believe in Communism and I despise Communists, yet I still read the Marxist texts and the doctrines people send me. Why? You never know if there would be something of value.
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Did you read the links I posted on my thread about alternatives to animal testing?

It's not so much about somthing I disagree with but I'm vegan and pro life. Anything that does not fit in with any of my values concerning the sactimony of life won't be read because I have better things to do with my time.

In particular I keep well away from anyone who promotes death for any reason whatsoever. It's not merely a question of disagreement, it's a question of ethnics.

Would you read something written by Adolf hitler or his followers which condones murdering of non arian races?
 
dreama said:
Did you read the links I posted on my thread about alternatives to animal testing?

It's not so much about somthing I disagree with but I'm vegan and pro life. Anything that does not fit in with any of my values concerning the sactimony of life won't be read because I have better things to do with my time.

In particular I keep well away from anyone who promotes death for any reason whatsoever. It's not merely a question of disagreement, it's a question of ethnics.

Would you read something written by Adolf hitler or his followers which condones murdering of non arian races?
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Yes, I would read something written by Hilter because it would give me an insight to his way of thinking and why the Holocaust happened. The mind works in mysterious ways so it can be fascinating.
 
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