It's so simple!

[web730]

Sorry, but that is a rather simplistic interpretation and you have missed the main concept that, at all times, the education of any child, even a deaf child, must be tailored towards that child's unique needs and that there is no one, or "better" approach for educating any child, again, even a deaf child.
Rick

Actually, I understood what you said and agreed with some of it on what you said. I just said that you were speaking of certain individuals so should we focus on those certain few ones and waste many others? That is basically the point that I suggest to debate for the broad approach's sake.

Otherwise, it would be no use to debate forever based on those few ones only, know what I meant, I hope. For those few ones, they can use tutors or such to help those unique needs.

 

[rick48]

Actually, I understood what you said and agreed with some of it on what you said. I just said that you were speaking of certain individuals so should we focus on those certain few ones and waste many others? That is basically the point that I suggest to debate for the broad approach's sake.

Otherwise, it would be no use to debate forever based on those few ones only, know what I meant, I hope. For those few ones, they can use tutors or such to help those unique needs.

Sorry, but you have missed what I was speaking about but I am not going to beat this point to death.
Rick

 

[loml]

Frankly, I neither care what you think you are discussing nor do I intend to ever limit my responses based on what you think a discussion should be limited to. There is no one system, school, program etc. that educates the "whole" population of deaf children but each and every deaf child must be educated by some particular system, school, program, etc.

So, feel free to discuss programs that may or may not meet the needs of an individual deaf child, and save your comments for someone who not only cares but thinks they have any merit.

rick48-

 

[jillio]

Yes, jillio... he spoke rather certain individuals based only... although he may be correct only for those certain individuals and schools. Yet we need to debate based on the broad approach - even for both school systems.

Also it's best left to the educators simply because they gathered much more from noticing how young students learned for years. Therefore those educators are far more qualified to debate on which is the better way to educate with a broader approach, if not for few certain individuals.

Although we all are free and pleased to share and debate our opinions and experiences of course, it's great to do something else to improve for the future young kids whom we cannot afford to waste any more old mistakes from we have seen so far.

Exactly. It is time to stop sacrificing our deaf kids' education for the sake of the oralism agenda.

 

[jillio]

Frankly, I neither care what you think you are discussing nor do I intend to ever limit my responses based on what you think a discussion should be limited to. There is no one system, school, program etc. that educates the "whole" population of deaf children but each and every deaf child must be educated by some particular system, school, program, etc.

So, feel free to discuss programs that may or may not meet the needs of an individual deaf child, and save your comments for someone who not only cares but thinks they have any merit.

As I am the originator of this thread, it is perfectly within my scope to keep the thread on topic. If you wish to devote a thread to individuals that have survived an oral only environment, then I suggest you start a thread devoted to that topic.

 

[Cheri]

We are not discussing individuals. We are discussing educational policy as a whole for deaf/hoh children.

Not all deaf have the same amount of hearing loss, They have different levels of hearing loss, using different hearing devices.

What Rick had stated is true that every children have different learning styles. A child can be an auditory learner or a visual learner or hands learner (sign language) Each child is unique and has a variety of needs, You should know that Jillio. Just because oral had failed for me, it doesn't mean it'll fail for everyone else, I can't place my opinion being bias, I have to remain neutral. If oral works well for Rick's daughter, then I'll take his word for it, we don't know how well she had done, we never met her nor talked to her to get the results; but we have to remind ourselves that she is different than those without cochlear implant.

 

[jillio]

Sorry, but that is a rather simplistic interpretation and you have missed the main concept that, at all times, the education of any child, even a deaf child, must be tailored towards that child's unique needs and that there is no one, or "better" approach for educating any child, again, even a deaf child.
Rick

That sounds very noble in theory, but it is not happening in any school system. Even those children under IEPs are receiving standard services that the system would offer to any deaf child, not specifically tailored instruction. The only way to obtain the type of individualized instruction of which you speak, is to hire a private tutor to home school.

 

[jillio]

Not all deaf have the same amount of hearing loss, They have different levels of hearing loss, using different hearing devices.

What Rick had stated is true that every children have different learning styles. A child can be an auditory learner or a visual learner or hands learner (sign language) Each child is unique and has a variety of needs, You should know that Jillio. Just because oral had failed for me, it doesn't mean it'll fail for everyone else, I can't place my opinion being bias, I have to remain neutral. If oral works well for Rick's daughter, then I'll take his word for it, we don't know how well she had done, we never met her nor talked to her to get the results; but we have to remind ourselves that she is different than those without cochlear implant.

Just because there is one success doesn't mean that it will be a sucess for everyone, either. The fact of the matter is, no matter the level of hearing loss or the assistive devise used, the preponderance of the research shows that deaf children of all categorgies perform at the highest level acacemically and socially when they are exposed to both speech and sign.

Yes, every child is unique, and that holds true for hearing children as well as deaf children. Not all hearing children learn in the same way. However,t here are universals that hold true developmentally for all children, and those universals are what need to be considered when deciding policy.

 

[Wokamuka]

Yes, every child is unique, and that holds true for hearing children as well as deaf children. Not all hearing children learn in the same way. However,t here are universals that hold true developmentally for all children, and those universals are what need to be considered when deciding policy.

Gold!

 

[shel90]

Hearing kids are not put in the positions of being at risks for language delays like deaf kids are and it seems ok with many of you if some approaches work for some but doesnt work for others. I cant justify accepting putting any innocent child at risk for language delays like that.

I prefer to have an nationwide deaf education approach that will give all deaf kids full access to language at all times. Hearing kids already have full access to info and language at their schools...why not deaf children too?

 

[shel90]

Not all deaf have the same amount of hearing loss, They have different levels of hearing loss, using different hearing devices.

What Rick had stated is true that every children have different learning styles. A child can be an auditory learner or a visual learner or hands learner (sign language) Each child is unique and has a variety of needs, You should know that Jillio. Just because oral had failed for me, it doesn't mean it'll fail for everyone else, I can't place my opinion being bias, I have to remain neutral. If oral works well for Rick's daughter, then I'll take his word for it, we don't know how well she had done, we never met her nor talked to her to get the results; but we have to remind ourselves that she is different than those without cochlear implant.

In BiBi programs, each child's learning styles are always considered and attended to. We, teachers, are responsible for assessing each child's strengths and weakness and then capitalize on the strengths.

 

[shel90]

Exactly. It is time to stop sacrificing our deaf kids' education for the sake of the oralism agenda.

Would it be so nice if that was stopped? Oh well..

 

[shel90]

This is not a thread on CS. Deaf children, on the whole, do not stuggle with ASL, and if provided ASL in a bi-bi atmosphere, do not struggle with English an more than the average hearing student stuggles with English. CS was not even invented at the time that literacy rates were highest for deaf children. Bi-bi education was the norm, and it allowed students to perform at rates on par with hearing peers. See principle #1 in the OP. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Invented systems aren't necessary. They are nothing more than an attempt to fix what has never been broken.

Likewise, if something doesn't work, don't keep doing it. CS, after 40 years, still does not have empirical support, and very little academic support from the experts in deaf ed.

I have never seen a deaf child with normal intelligent capacity struggle with ASL. Usually when a young deaf child is shown to have struggles with acquiring ASL it is due to cognitive processing issues not cuz of ASL itself. Same concept with those hearing kids who struggle with acquiring spoken English.

 

[Cheri]

Hearing kids are not put in the positions of being at risks for language delays like deaf kids are and it seems ok with many of you if some approaches work for some but doesnt work for others. I cant justify accepting putting any innocent child at risk for language delays like that.

Of course they do. I've came to known some hearing kids had language delay when they're in public schools, until their IEP, that's when they discuss changes to get a child to improve by finding another solution.

 

[shel90]

Of course they do. I've came to known some hearing kids had language delay when they're in public schools, until their IEP, that's when they discuss changes to get a child to improve by finding another solution.

Are hearing kids deprived of full language access? Only if they are deprived of any contact with another human being.

The language delays in these hearing kids are mainly because of cognitive processing issues like LD, neorological disorders, or other conditions not because they were deprived of full access to language.

Deaf kids are constantly put at risk for language delays when they dont have full acess to language both at home and school.

That is what I am referring to.

 

[rick48]

Of course they do. I've came to known some hearing kids had language delay when they're in public schools, until their IEP, that's when they discuss changes to get a child to improve by finding another solution.

Exactly!

No one is saying that we are fine with accepting language delays for any child and rather it is becoming quite tedious when a certain person cannot respond to any discussion without raising that baseless allegation and attempting to smear those who disagree with her with it.

I think Cheri, loml, myself and others have been quite clear in saying that there is no one approach that can be applied to all deaf children, that all deaf children are unique individuals and that the goal is to find the most appropriate program for each and every child.

At no time did we, or anyone else, ever say that we "ok" for any program that works for some but not for others.
Rick

 

[Cheri]

Deaf kids are constantly put at risk for language delays when they dont have full acess to language both at home and school.

You think hearing kids have full language at home? Not always, My sister happen to be a teacher, and she had tell us all about her students, some of their language delays because parents refused to help their children at home, the school cannot do this alone, they need the parents help too; problems will not resolve on their own. The earlier children gets help both home and at school, the greater their progress will be.

 

[moonflower]

my niece a hearing child at 2 1/2 is learning to signs even at school and at home as well it won't stop her from learning my brother who is also hearing he does know signs taugh my niece some signs and he did followed to learn signs with me when we were kids even at home. Right now my older nephew is learning signs as i am teaching him signs.
i am lucky one that did learn to signs at home along with my oldest sister, my younger brother and my mother it didn't even stop everyone in my family from learning sign language at home

 

[Cheri]

my niece a hearing child at 2 1/2 is learning to signs even at school and at home as well it won't stop her from learning my brother who is also hearing he does know signs taugh my niece some signs and he did followed to learn signs with me when we were kids even at home. Right now my older nephew is learning signs as i am teaching him signs.
i am lucky one that did learn to signs at home along with my oldest sister, my younger brother and my mother it didn't even stop everyone in my family from learning sign language at home

That's great!!

 

[deafdyke]

We are not discussing individuals. We are discussing educational policy as a whole for deaf/hoh children. And the policies that are revalent today are underserving and unereducting the vast majority of deaf/hoh kids.

Yes, rick............while there are some kids who do quite well in the mainstream, the majority of dhh kids do not do very well.
It's exactly like how in East St. Louis or or Cabrini-Green or the South Bronx or any other incredibily crappy neighborhood or city, there might be some kids who go off to good colleges and become doctors and lawyers or other kinds of professionals. However most kids from inner city schools do not acheive those heights. Heck most inner city kids consider themselves lucky if they graduate from HIGH SCHOOL!!!
Yes, we all have to remember the indivdual in IEPs, and of course that ALL kids are indivduals. However, it's a fact that regular public schools tend to be best at educating the average learner. Even GIFTED kids tend not to acheive too well in school. It's great that your daughter (and some other AG Bellers) did well in a public school but not everyone thrives or does really well in a public school setting!