It's so simple!

shel90 said:
Let me page my friend. She is doing a thesis for her Master's and has been telling me all the recent research. Geez, I really need to subscribe to Deaf Ed research myself anyway. I used to but I stopped..now I wonder why I stopped. Hmmmm..
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No problem. I did a quick search of the most recent volumes of Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education, but didn't come up with anything by her. I could keep searching the professional journals, but it would just be quicker if I had the publication.

Any of the research that you want and can't get ahold of, just let me know in pm. I will email it to you.
 
jillio said:
Published in 2003, data from 1999. How about some recent stats? These are outdated and invalid.

But it did support what I and the other educators on the forum have said, not to mention so many other members.........The MCEs used in a TC program have kept the literacy rates of deaf children at a pitiful low point.
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Yea, I used that "Unlocking the Curriculm" as a research for one of my classes. When I applied the strategies to my classes, I could see a huge improvement in literacy skills in all of the students within months hence my decision to work in BiBi programs. :) The more students the approach works for, the better.
 
shel90 said:
Yea, I used that "Unlocking the Curriculm" as a research for one of my classes. When I applied the strategies to my classes, I could see a huge improvement in literacy skills in all of the students within months hence my decision to work in BiBi programs. :) The more students the approach works for, the better.
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Absolutely. Its such a simple concept. Overall comprehension of the curriculum and the environment improves literacy rates.
 
I totally agree with first post. I'd also like to add that most 'oral successes' are hard of hearing rather then profoundly deaf. All oral successes have some useful hearing although some not too much. Another point is that deaf children raised in an oral only setting tend to exadurate their hearing loss. I used to do it myself when I was younger. When I was at the Partial hearing unit there weren't any deaf there in the top stream classes. They were mostly in bottom stream classes. And thats for hard of hearing kids rather then profoundly deaf ones.

I did better at the first high school because the teachers wrote everything on the blackboard for me. Ironically the mainsteam teachers at the unit werent required to do that.

It depreses me that the oral only phylosophy hasn't died yet.
 
Cheri said:
:ty: I'm glad there's at least one/two who appreciated my thoughts on this topic. ;)


:ty: Ioml for this link.
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Cheri,

While I may not always agree with you, you do not have to justify yourself or "prove" your worthiness to render an opinion on a topic to anyone on this forum.
Rick

PS Your thoughts are appreciated too!
 
rick48 said:
Cheri,

While I may not always agree with you, you do not have to justify yourself or "prove" your worthiness to render an opinion on a topic to anyone on this forum.
Rick

PS Your thoughts are appreciated too!
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No one has been asked to "prove their worthiness", as you put it. If you have something to contribute to the topic, please do so. If you are in here simply to made snide remarks, including the post above the quoted one, then please find another thread in which to do so. This thread is concerned with the education of deaf children.
 
rick48 said:
"All"? Are you sure you want to say that?
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Yes, I do. I'm refering to strictly oral here. As in no signing, fingerspelling, Tactilating, Total communication, cued speech etc etc... As that's the environment I experienced growing up. In short just on lip reading and hearing although it seems that now even that's not possible for people introduced to the new AVT. I'm also refering to people with NO useful hearing. It seems some profoundly deaf who have a little like Shel, that help them manage along with hours and hours of speech therapy. But I don't know one single person who was totally deaf, with NO USEFUL HEARING, who managed with the oral only aproach. Do you?
 
BiBi doesnt have to be restricted to the Deaf schools...I am open to having BiBi deaf programs in the mainstreamed schools. Maybe include hearing kids..why not?
 
dreama said:
Yes, I do. I'm refering to strictly oral here. As in no signing, fingerspelling, Tactilating, Total communication, cued speech etc etc... As that's the environment I experienced growing up. In short just on lip reading and hearing although it seems that now even that's not possible for people introduced to the new AVT. I'm also refering to people with NO useful hearing. It seems some profoundly deaf who have a little like Shel, that help them manage along with hours and hours of speech therapy. But I don't know one single person who was totally deaf, with NO USEFUL HEARING, who managed with the oral only aproach. Do you?
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Yes and more than one single person. So I can tell you from personal experience your use of and insistence on the word "all" is wrong.
Rick
 
shel90 said:
BiBi doesnt have to be restricted to the Deaf schools...I am open to having BiBi deaf programs in the mainstreamed schools. Maybe include hearing kids..why not?
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Exactly. That would be an ultimate Bi-Bi atmosphere. All kids in a blingual classroom. Both would be learning a different language, and those that are native English speakers would be a benefit to those that are learning English as their 2nd language, and those that are native ASL users would be a benefit to those that are learning ASL as a 2nd language. Peers teaching peers. That technique has already shown to be very effective.
 
rick48 said:
Yes and more than one single person. So I can tell you from personal experience your use of and insistence on the word "all" is wrong.
Rick
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Even those that are oral only rely on visual cues for comprehension as a supplement to their oral/auditory skills.

From personal experience? I wasn't aware that you were deaf and raised oral only. Perhaps you meant to say from your observation and perceptions of another's experience...that would be second hand.

Now, back on topic. If you disagree with the statements made regarding the simplicity of repairing what is broken in the educational system, exactly what measures do you propose instead? How would you go about beginning to fix the ills of education?
 
dreama said:
I totally agree with first post. I'd also like to add that most 'oral successes' are hard of hearing rather then profoundly deaf. All oral successes have some useful hearing although some not too much. Another point is that deaf children raised in an oral only setting tend to exadurate their hearing loss. I used to do it myself when I was younger. When I was at the Partial hearing unit there weren't any deaf there in the top stream classes. They were mostly in bottom stream classes. And thats for hard of hearing kids rather then profoundly deaf ones.

I did better at the first high school because the teachers wrote everything on the blackboard for me. Ironically the mainsteam teachers at the unit werent required to do that.

It depreses me that the oral only phylosophy hasn't died yet.
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I agree with you about doing better in classes when the teachers wrote everything down. I remember when I was in middle and high school praying (I am not religious but the situation was so bad) that I would get teachers who showed the lesson outline on the overhead or blackboards. When I dont get teachers who dont use visuals, my anxiety level would just shoot up several notches in those classes cuz I didnt wnat to look stupid in front of everyone not knowing what is being said at all. One time, my history class hosted a debate...I was practically in tears during the debates cuz I was totally lost. I remember asking the teacher to go to the bathroom each time the debate lesson would pop up and I would cry in the bathroom stall.

I am telling u..the oral only approach SUCKED big time. That's why I dont understand why I get bashed for not supporting the oral only approach for deaf kids. It just doesnt make sense to put deaf children in an environment so restrictive.
 
jillio said:
Even those that are oral only rely on visual cues for comprehension as a supplement to their oral/auditory skills.

From personal experience? I wasn't aware that you were deaf and raised oral only. Perhaps you meant to say from your observation and perceptions of another's experience...that would be second hand.

Now, back on topic. If you disagree with the statements made regarding the simplicity of repairing what is broken in the educational system, exactly what measures do you propose instead? How would you go about beginning to fix the ills of education?
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Yes, I relied heavily on textbooks, teacher's notes, and outlines to know what the hell was happening in class. If a class didnt have those, I was totally completely lost. No, I didnt speak up cuz I got yelled at for not paying attention so I just shut up and suffered thru the lectures and prayyyyyyyyyyeeeeedddd hard that I wouldnt get called on.

Duh, of course I dont want that for deaf kids!
 
shel90 said:
Yes, I relied heavily on textbooks, teacher's notes, and outlines to know what the hell was happening in class. If a class didnt have those, I was totally completely lost. No, I didnt speak up cuz I got yelled at for not paying attention so I just shut up and suffered thru the lectures and prayyyyyyyyyyeeeeedddd hard that I wouldnt get called on.

Duh, of course I dont want that for deaf kids!
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I find it difficult to understand why someone would want that, but evidently they do.
 
rick48 said:
Yes and more than one single person. So I can tell you from personal experience your use of and insistence on the word "all" is wrong.
Rick
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Rick - I would agree regarding the choice of word all.

all–adjective

1. the whole of (used in referring to quantity, extent, or duration): all the cake; all the way; all year.
2. the whole number of (used in referring to individuals or particulars, taken collectively): all students.
3. the greatest possible (used in referring to quality or degree): with all due respect; with all speed.
4. every: all kinds; all sorts.
5. any; any whatever: beyond all doubt.
6. nothing but; only: The coat is all wool.
7. dominated by or as if by the conspicuous possession or use of a particular feature: The colt was all legs. They were all ears, listening attentively to everything she said.
8. Chiefly Pennsylvania German. all gone; consumed; finished: The pie is all.
–pronoun 9. the whole quantity or amount: He ate all of the peanuts. All are gone.
10. the whole number; every one: all of us.
11. everything: Is that all you want to say? All is lost.
–noun 12. one's whole interest, energy, or property: to give one's all; to lose one's all.
13. (often initial capital letter) the entire universe.
–adverb 14. wholly; entirely; completely: all alone.
15. only; exclusively: He spent his income all on pleasure.
16. each; apiece: The score was one all.
17. Archaic. even; just.
—Idioms18. above all, before everything else; chiefly: Above all, the little girl wanted a piano.
19. after all, in spite of the circumstances; notwithstanding: He came in time after all.
20. all at once. once (def. 14).
21. all but, almost; very nearly: These batteries are all but dead.
22. all in, Northern and Western U.S. very tired; exhausted: We were all in at the end of the day.
23. all in all, a. everything considered; in general: All in all, her health is greatly improved.
b. altogether: There were twelve absentees all in all.
c. everything; everything regarded as important: Painting became his all in all.

24. all in hand, Printing, Journalism. (of the copy for typesetting a particular article, book, issue, etc.) in the possession of the compositor.
25. all in the wind, Nautical. too close to the wind.
26. all out, with all available means or effort: We went all out to win the war.
27. all over, a. finished; done; ended.
b. everywhere; in every part.
c. in every respect; typically.

28. all standing, Nautical. a. in such a way and so suddenly that sails or engines are still set to propel a vessel forward: The ship ran aground all standing.
b. fully clothed: The crew turned in all standing.
c. fully equipped, as a vessel.

29. all that, remarkably; entirely; decidedly (used in negative constructions): It's not all that different from your other house.
30. all the better, more advantageous; so much the better: If the sun shines it will be all the better for our trip.
31. all there, Informal. mentally competent; not insane or feeble-minded: Some of his farfetched ideas made us suspect that he wasn't all there.
32. all the same. same (def. 9).
33. all told. told (def. 2).
34. all up, a. Printing, Journalism. (of copy) completely set in type.
b. Informal. with no vestige of hope remaining: It's all up with George—they've caught him.

35. and all, together with every other associated or connected attribute, object, or circumstance: What with the snow and all, we may be a little late.
36. at all, a. in the slightest degree: I wasn't surprised at all.
b. for any reason: Why bother at all?
c. in any way: no offense at all.

37. for all (that), in spite of; notwithstanding: For all that, it was a good year.
38. in all, all included; all together: a hundred guests in all.
39. once and for all, for the last time; finally: The case was settled once and for all when the appeal was denied.

[Origin: bef. 900; ME al, pl. alle; OE eal(l); c. Goth alls, ON allr, OFris, D, MLG al, OS, OHG al(l) (G all); if < *ol-no-, equiv. to Welsh oll and akin to OIr uile < *ol-io-; cf. almighty]


—Synonyms 2. every one of, each of. 14. totally, utterly, fully.

—Usage note Expressions like all the farther and all the higher occur chiefly in informal speech: This is all the farther the bus goes. That's all the higher she can jump. Elsewhere as far as and as high as are generally used: This is as far as the bus goes. That's as high as she can jump.
Although some object to the inclusion of of in such phrases as all of the students and all of the contracts and prefer to omit it, the construction is entirely standard.
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all - Definitions from Dictionary.com

:naughty:
 
jillio said:
I find it difficult to understand why someone would want that, but evidently they do.
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I don't understand it either. I remember studying really hard to do learn the spelling of these french words. In my first high school they write them all down in English on the blackboard. Only when I moved to the oralist PHU I had this teacher speaking them. I just couldn't manage with that. So then I lost my temper and got dragged off to the Partial Hearing Unit.
 
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