Is there a such thing as "true bilingualism"?

Of course I disagree that AV or aural rehab, or listening therapy, or whatever you want to call it, is cruel or inaffective. I see with my own eyes, everyday, that those things are not true for my child.

But anyway, I guess my question remains, can someone have the listening and speaking skills (fluent, easy use of spoken language) of a successful AV, oral deaf person AND the ASL skills of a native ASL user? Or does one have to suffer?
 
So you are one of those who believe that visual language will do a brain switch?

The brain is more capable than you think
 
It seems like you prefer your daughter to be oral than an ASL user so why come here and ask us but still discredit our help and opinions?
 
shel90 said:
It seems like you prefer your daughter to be oral than an ASL user so why come here and ask us but still discredit our help and opinions?
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Where the hell did I say anything like that?? The very OPPOSITE is true. I want my child to be bilingual and the whole world is against that. Oral supporters think spoken language is enough and people here think ASL is enough.

Why can't a child need and use both?
 
faire_jour said:
Where the hell did I say anything like that?? The very OPPOSITE is true. I want my child to be bilingual and the whole world is against that. Oral supporters think spoken language is enough and people here think ASL is enough.

Why can't a child need and use both?
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It just seems like it from several of your posts about oralism. That's the impression I got. I know you want her to be bilingual but with a more empasis on being more fluent in oral skills than ASL...that's the message being portrayed without you actually saying it.

Many of us support the use of both so I dont understand what the problem is. I know that oral supporters arent very supportive of ASL. Nothing new under the sun about them.

Many of us went through being oral only and discovering ASL later. We value and appreciate ASL and we advocate it strongly because the majority doesnt. Who else to do that? That's the bond that connects most of us in an unforgiving society.

Oralism is already being supported by the majority anyway.

Like I said in another post, those people who told you that she cant be both are wrong.
 
alot of oral supporter believe in hyperfocus on speech. Or the deaf child won't learn spoken language becuase they can't hear.

F_J, your child have Cochlear implant, you don't have to worry about hyperfocusing on speech like the parents of yesterday.
 
shel90 said:
It just seems like it from several of your posts about oralism. That's the impression I got. I know you want her to be bilingual but with a more empasis on being more fluent in oral skills than ASL...that's the message being portrayed without you actually saying it.

Many of us support the use of both so I dont understand what the problem is. I know that oral supporters arent very supportive of ASL. Nothing new under the sun about them.

Many of us went through being oral only and discovering ASL later. We value and appreciate ASL and we advocate it strongly because the majority doesnt. Who else to do that? That's the bond that connects most of us in an unforgiving society.

Oralism is already being supported by the majority anyway.

Like I said in another post, those people who told you that she cant be both are wrong.
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You see that because you want to. It makes closed minded people feel better to sterotype than to listen.

My child has been given ASL everyday of her life, she attends a voice-off ASL church with a Deaf teacher, all her best friends are Deaf of Deaf, and we are very active in the Deaf community, BUT because I believe that learning spoken language is EQUAL in importance as ASL and written language (actually, scratch that, I believe reading and writing is actually number 1, but you get the point), I am an audist, oralist, genocidal abusive parent who hates the Deaf community and spits on their life experiences....yeah, sure, whatever...
 
Many CODA started out ASL as their first language. And they can be fluent in both language. I think you are worrying that your child just won't use her ears and voice.
 
faire_jour said:
You see that because you want to. It makes closed minded people feel better to sterotype than to listen.

My child has been given ASL everyday of her life, she attends a voice-off ASL church with a Deaf teacher, all her best friends are Deaf of Deaf, and we are very active in the Deaf community, BUT because I believe that learning spoken language is EQUAL in importance as ASL and written language (actually, scratch that, I believe reading and writing is actually number 1, but you get the point), I am an audist, oralist, genocidal abusive parent who hates the Deaf community and spits on their life experiences....yeah, sure, whatever...
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Why do you keep rejecting many of our opinions here about the support of both by stating this...

people here think ASL is enough.
 
I think she is saying we believe that ASL should be first language and spoken English as second..

While oralist believe spoken language should be the first language... and they can learn sign language anytime later (treat it as not important). (new flash for them, pointing and gesturing is the deaf child's first language)

She wanted to know if ASL and Spoken can both be first language.
 
shel90 said:
Why do you keep rejecting many of our opinions here about the support of both by stating this...

people here think ASL is enough.
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There are people here who have repeatedly said "therapy doesn't work for kids", "deaf children can NOT learn to speak", "it is a waste of time", "just give them ASL and give up on speech, because it will never happen", and even "ci's don't work, they are a lie".

It happens everyday. I'm not making it up.

Even more "progressive" people refer to "oral skills" as a possibility, but not fluent, spoken language. The ability to ask a hearing person "where is the bathroom?" with your voice is different than being able to conduct your life through listening and speaking. That is the difference between pull out speech therapy once a week for 20 minutes, conducted in SIM-COM (oral skills) and AV (fluent spoken language)
 
Lighthouse77 said:
I think she is saying we believe that ASL should be first language and spoken English as second..

While oralist believe spoken language should be the first language... and they can learn sign language anytime later (treat it as not important). (new flash for them, pointing and gesturing is the deaf child's first language)

She wanted to know if ASL and Spoken can both be first language.
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that wasnt the question she asked...

So, I'm asking, is there no such thing as true bilingualism? Can she really never be truly comfortable in both worlds and languages?

Many of us responded answering this question but yet, it seems like it is not good enough. :dunno:

Everyone has different opinions so my question was since she is giving Miss Kat both anyway so why worry? Unless she is asking on behalf of the population of deaf/hoh children?
 
Those are people's experience growing up as oral speech! They just want people to realize the harsh reality of Oral-only environment.
 
faire_jour said:
There are people here who have repeatedly said "therapy doesn't work for kids", "deaf children can NOT learn to speak", "it is a waste of time", "just give them ASL and give up on speech, because it will never happen", and even "ci's don't work, they are a lie".

It happens everyday. I'm not making it up.

Even more "progressive" people refer to "oral skills" as a possibility, but not fluent, spoken language. The ability to ask a hearing person "where is the bathroom?" with your voice is different than being able to conduct your life through listening and speaking. That is the difference between pull out speech therapy once a week for 20 minutes, conducted in SIM-COM (oral skills) and AV (fluent spoken language)
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There will always be people who are against CIs. Nothing is going to change their minds.

If people support ASL only without speech therapy, is that such a bad thing? There are many deaf people out there who have no speech skills and are doing fine. Some arent doing fine and those are the ones who ususally have poor English writing skills. That is the key that many of us are mostly concerned with first. Being literate.
 
shel90 said:
that wasnt the question she asked...

So, I'm asking, is there no such thing as true bilingualism? Can she really never be truly comfortable in both worlds and languages?

Many of us responded answering this question but yet, it seems like it is not good enough. :dunno:

Everyone has different opinions so my question was since she is giving Miss Kat both anyway so why worry? Unless she is asking on behalf of the population of deaf/hoh children?
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Where did I say the answers wheren't good enough? It's like you are looking for a reason to argue with me, and unable to find one, you make one up!
 
shel90 said:
Why do you keep rejecting many of our opinions here about the support of both by stating this...

people here think ASL is enough.
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I think she just want some attention and want us to yell and complain at her so she can justify her role as a victim of cruel deaf education politics, the world going against her etc?
 
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