Is it ever ok for kids NOT to use ASL?

[shel90]

I don't quite think learning ASL then English is quite the same for hearing kids and deaf kids....

It was sarcasm.

 

[faire_jour]

Children with great hearing and speech discrimination are not deaf nor hoh. They are hearing.

Not always true. There are kids out there with mild losses or CI's who can get 100% on random word speech discrimination tests and hear into the 10-15 db ranges.

 

[deafdyke]

Everyone else, are you confident that teaching EVERY single deaf AND HoH ASL will only benefit them? Is your answer the same if ASL is the first language?

Well I think that for early intervention or on an enrichement baisis ASL should be introduced to kids who are hoh as an option to see if it might significently benifit them or if they like it.
I know a little girl who is hoh (same syndrome as I have) who started out with ASL, and even went to a Deaf School.. She recently dropped the Sign b/c she decided she didn't need it any more.
Nothing wrong with that. I know of a handful of kids who started out with both, and who decided they didn't want to Sign any more.
The beef that I have with oral as the kneejerk option, is that it assumes that oral is always the best option or b/c the kid is good orally, they don't "need" sign.

 

[jillio]

Not always true. There are kids out there with mild losses or CI's who can get 100% on random word speech discrimination tests and hear into the 10-15 db ranges.

You are kidding yourself. Ever listen to a recording of what one misses with a mild loss? There are online simulations of such. I suggest you listen to one. You would be amazed at how much is missed with even a mild loss.

 

[faire_jour]

You are kidding yourself. Ever listen to a recording of what one misses with a mild loss? There are online simulations of such. I suggest you listen to one. You would be amazed at how much is missed with even a mild loss.

Do you disagree that it is possible or so you say that a mild loss still makes learning spoken language impossibe?

 

[chris' mom]

With Chris signs as taught him to be oral. He's not perfect at it and there is still a lot even as a mother I dont' understand orally. But buy using ASL first he has picked up alot of oral words. Here is how I taught him. I show him the flashcard, the picture (or object) do the sing and then say the word. It's a small step process. He masters the sign before trying to maste the verbal. Seems to work with us. It help him pick up new signs because when he starts off with the verbal you can't make out what he is trying to say without the sign. My personal opinion is what the parents thinks it's best for the children. I have been told by too many to count people to not use ASL on him. I didn't follow the advise and I feel that my sons L1 will be ASL and L2 Verble..

 

[jillio]

Do you disagree that it is possible or so you say that a mild loss still makes learning spoken language impossibe?

I am saying that even a mild loss interferes with the ability to access information auditorily. If you are happy wiith 90% access ( and that is a very generous estimation) in a classroom, then I guess that is your choice. I personally, would not be satisfied with that.

BTW, you did not answer my question.

 

[faire_jour]

I am saying that even a mild loss interferes with the ability to access information auditorily. If you are happy wiith 90% access ( and that is a very generous estimation) in a classroom, then I guess that is your choice. I personally, would not be satisfied with that.

BTW, you did not answer my question.

I have heard them, but it has been a long time.
So, how is ASL 100% accessable as well? If a child looks down to write...missed part of the conversation. If more than one person signs at the same time, in different locations....missed part. If you read something from a book....missed part. Heaven forbid you sneeze or yawn and close your eyes for a second.

Yes, I know I'm being facetious but really, is there a such thing as 100% on anything?

 

[jillio]

I have heard them, but it has been a long time.
So, how is ASL 100% accessable as well? If a child looks down to write...missed part of the conversation. If more than one person signs at the same time, in different locations....missed part. If you read something from a book....missed part. Heaven forbid you sneeze or yawn and close your eyes for a second.

Yes, I know I'm being facetious but really, is there a such thing as 100% on anything?

Yes, there is 100% access. With 100% access, the opportunity is there. Everyone, even hearing children, will get distracted for a minute and miss something. You can count on them getting about 95% of what is presented. The point is, they have the opportunity to get 100%. If a child has only a 90% opportunity to access information, and then you reduce that by subtracting what they will miss through distraction, then you have signnificantly reduced even more what they will be able to access. Give them the opportunity for 100% access.

 

[shel90]

It never ceases to amaze me that people think it is ok to accept limited access to language, communication, and information for deaf children but for hearing children, there would be an uproar and outrage.

Duh...why does the Deaf community feel strongly about this? It is about equality. Yet, the Deaf community is criticized for it. :roll:

Hello....

 

[jillio]

It never ceases to amaze me that people think it is ok to accept limited access to language, communication, and information for deaf children but for hearing children, there would be an uproar and outrage.

Duh...why does the Deaf community feel strongly about this? It is about equality. Yet, the Deaf community is criticized for it. :roll:

Hello....

And not are they just willing to accept the limited access, they actually advocate for situations that increase limited access. And then turn around and complain about the literacy rates of deaf kids. It just does not make sense.

 

[shel90]

And not are they just willing to accept the limited access, they actually advocate for situations that increase limited access. And then turn around and complain about the literacy rates of deaf kids. It just does not make sense.

I refuse to be a part of it...I couldn't live with my conscience..

 

[Babyblue]

I have heard them, but it has been a long time.
So, how is ASL 100% accessable as well? If a child looks down to write...missed part of the conversation. If more than one person signs at the same time, in different locations....missed part. If you read something from a book....missed part. Heaven forbid you sneeze or yawn and close your eyes for a second.

Yes, I know I'm being facetious but really, is there a such thing as 100% on anything?

Hearing people get distracted and miss parts of conversations as well. Same thing happens when one or more person speaks at the same time. Different location or at the same.

When they cough or sneeze the other person usually have to repeat themselves.

As well I am being facetious. The same can be asked.

Do we actually have a 100% on any communication method? I think not. Misunderstanding in any language will always be there regardless. So the best option is to provide sign language and spoken language.

A lot of parents that have children implanted are often confused.

ASL does not delay a child's communication skills. It will help elaborate the skills.

Use speech and signs.

Why not teach both?

 

[sarasf]

And not are they just willing to accept the limited access, they actually advocate for situations that increase limited access. And then turn around and complain about the literacy rates of deaf kids. It just does not make sense.

No it doesn't make sense. Faire Jour, I hope that you are able to be at peace with your daughter's hearing loss.

 

[jillio]

I refuse to be a part of it...I couldn't live with my conscience..

You and me both, Shel.

 

[beyondthetrend]

I've been Hearing impaired for 20 years, losing over 70% of my hearing (i'm 25) I never took ASL classes or was even offered the option. I did however take speach classes. I did my whole school career in regular public schools, with a few "special classes" here and there to make sure I wasn't falling behind. But If you as the parent feel its not ness. then I wouldn't push it, let your child deside. I wish I would have taken it. Or had been offered. But then again my friend Christopher took it and doesn't care to use it.

 

[Byrdie714]

I would say that it is possible for children who hear very very well to be perfectly successful without the use of a visual language. That children with great hearing, and speech discrimination do not need ASL as their primary language.

Yeah they're called hearing kids.

It never ceases to amaze me that people think it is ok to accept limited access to language, communication, and information for deaf children but for hearing children, there would be an uproar and outrage.

Duh...why does the Deaf community feel strongly about this? It is about equality. Yet, the Deaf community is criticized for it. :roll:

Hello....

Good point!

 

[dreama]

With Chris signs as taught him to be oral. He's not perfect at it and there is still a lot even as a mother I dont' understand orally. But buy using ASL first he has picked up alot of oral words. Here is how I taught him. I show him the flashcard, the picture (or object) do the sing and then say the word. It's a small step process. He masters the sign before trying to maste the verbal. Seems to work with us. It help him pick up new signs because when he starts off with the verbal you can't make out what he is trying to say without the sign. My personal opinion is what the parents thinks it's best for the children. I have been told by too many to count people to not use ASL on him. I didn't follow the advise and I feel that my sons L1 will be ASL and L2 Verble..

That's good to know. Your son is lucky to have a mother like you.

 

[deafdyke]

There are kids out there with mild losses or CI's who can get 100% on random word speech discrimination tests and hear into the 10-15 db ranges.

On the other hand, is that their TRUE word discrimination or just the fact that people tend to modify their speech patterns to make it easier for a dhh person to understand them?
I know from personal experiance (camp and college) that when I would return to them, I'd be saying " what?" a lot b/c people would have forgotten to modify their speech.
Chris' mom.....is your son enrolled in a Deaf School or a Deaf program? He may find it helpful.
Daredevil, agreed. I am VERY glad I have the abilty to speak. However, the "gift" of speech is really dependant on whether or not the kid can develop inteligable speech....that is intellgiable by most people off the bat.

 

[Daredevel7]

I see that a lot of oral people here said "I wish I knew ASL." Does that mean you wish you learned it first? Or you wish you had that as an option (learning it later)?

Deafdyke, you're right that the "gift" of speech is really dependent on whether the kid can develop oral skills. (AND I am NOT talking about just being able to speak but also understand spoken English) Just questioning whether ASL really is the best route to go for EVERYONE. I just question the idea that ASL ONLY helps. This is different from the idea that ASL helps most of the time.