Irony of ironies, Gore's hometown Nashville Breaks 1877 Cold Temp Record...

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Exactly. Global warming should more properly be called climate change. Some sections of Earth like the Norweigian area are like to get colder rather than warmer while England could become almost tropical due to other factors that doesn't affect Norway.


No. The premise all along has been about global warming and that is what this is all about. Global warming. Changing over to "climate change" is an attempt to cover-up and confuse people of what the agenda is about and that is....global warming. Ta da!!!
:cool2:
 
It's about the equivalent distance from Barrow (a coastal town) to Fairbanks (inland town) to that of Vancouver, BC (a coastal town) to The Dalles, Oregon (inland). Geography plays a role in those towns.

That is why I showed up the example of Vancouver, WA and Vancouver BC with the same geopgraphy to show that the difference of geography does affect the temperature, not just the heat.

Wind is created when there are temperature and pressure differences. It's all about heat exchanges. There is heat in the atmosphere, too. Heat is everywhere. There is heat in ice. Until you actually understand the physics of heat you'll get it. Right now, you do not. Please take the time to read up on these things.

Yes, you can grow plants in Greenland. You are so misinformed. They do have crops there believe it or not, even in Fairbanks which gets much more colder than southern Greenland. In Greenland they grow potatos, cauliflowers, brocollis, roots and herbs, cabbage, radish, and even carrots.
Read a learn for a change.
Greenland: land of ice goes green as warming turns the cabbages into kings - Times Online


Greenland : Weather Underground

Then where's the tree? Also this link says that it is not enough without the source from Denmark.
 
As for the "sole major cause", you are wrong. CO2 have been proved to increase temperature in controlled expirments in labs. The last 100 years, human activities are responsible for 30 percent of CO2 in the air. We know this by doing test of CO2 in the air with chemistry, and can track down where CO2 come from. We have measured an increase of temperature along with an increase of CO2, that correlate with lab tests. What we lack is a model that can explain the rise in temperature by natural causes. Skeptics are frantically trying to find scientifical models that can explain the temperature rise by natural causes, but have failed so far. The sun model is at it best, funny and have close to zero scientifical support, even NASA who study the sun and delivers the hard facts, confirms that global warming seems to be due to human activities like it said in your link.

Your arguments are based on beliving. You belive something is false, even if you don't have a scientifically supported model that can replace what you think is false.

What they don't tell you is that as the concentration of CO2 increases it inversely get less effective as a "forcing agent" on increasing temperature. Besides, 90% of greenhouse warming is due to water vapor and clouds. Yet, carbon dioxide does play a role...albeit a very minor role when it comes to climate change. Yet, when we exhale our breath it contains about 4% CO2 by volume with the surrounding air. That is 40,000 parts per million, or about 100 times the current atmospheric concentration at 380 ppm. But what people do not understand is that CO2 is absolutely essential for life on earth! And it is certainly not a pollutant to begin with!

Again, are you sure that mankind is solely responsible for 30% of all CO2 in the air? We are still learning about Earth and how it is the biggest emitter and absorber of CO2. In fact, recently it was discovered that the decadal oscillating Atlantic ocean currents pump huge amount of CO2 every 65 years during the positive phase. We all know, well, at least some of us do, that the ocean acts as a huge CO2 sink during colder climate periods absorbing more and CO2 than during warmer years when water is warmer is less capable of absorbing CO2. Much like a warm cup of soda is unable to hold any of it's CO2 versus for long compared an ice cold cup of soda is able to hold it's bubbly CO2 for a lot longer. Same idea with the ocean but it has a lot longer lag time in absorbing and releasing heat.
http://www.biokurs.de/treibhaus/180CO2/bayreuth/Summary-bayreuth.pdf

Models are not proof. Any self-respecting scientists, such as I, can attest to that with my background in computational modeling in contaminant hydrogeology which was the basis of my 5 year thesis result. Bottom line, they are simply but predictive models that comes with parameters (unknown and known). the range of sensitivity for each parameter involved, temporal and spatial scales, unknown and known feedbacks, the issues of thermodynamics, entrophy, etc..etc..ad nauseum. There are several competing climate models out there and in order for a climate model to have any sense of validity the model must be actively validated somehow against the real thing. And that's extremely hard when it comes to climate modeling when meteorologists cannot even accurately predict the next hurricane two weeks out.

My arguments are based on facts and knowledge of geophysics, earth science and hydrology. BTW, where are your links to support your claims and arguments? :hmm:
 
We know that 97 of climate researchers agree with each other from surveys, so it's not just something that the "Green side" claims.

Ummm ... that would be 97% of the "climatologists" participating and not 97% of ALL climatoligists in the world. Yet they do not state how many of the 3,100 some odd scientists surveyed were actually climatologists. But funnily enough you and others conveniently ignore the facts there are reputable and professional scientists who disagree with the notion about global warming as man-caused.

More Than 700 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims Scientists Continue to Debunk

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index....Store_id=83947f5d-d84a-4a84-ad5d-6e2d71db52d9

97%? Er, yeah. Right. :roll:
 
All I know is what I see up here. When I am on the Arctic coast I see a huge difference. I used to see an ice pack out there. I used to see chunks of ice floating everywhere all summer long. I used to see colder summer temperatures and winter came sooner. In my life time I have seen an overall winter change of several degrees no matter where I am at. It is warmer. It does not get as cold nor does it stay as cold. These observations match up with science as well. I am not an expert just a guy who was working outdoors with his hands on the Arctic coast in 1975 and in 2009 and many times in between.
 
Here in Minnesota, there has been a noticeable change in summer humidity. The theory is that all of the farming south of the Twin Cities has increased the water levels in the air, because of irrigation. This more humid air is picked up when the winds blow from the south. And, since the southerly winds are already humid from the Gulf of Mexico, it has increased our humidity about 5-10 degrees on the dewpoint scale. I rarely recall dewpoints of 70 or higher in the 1980's. In the last 15 years, we have gone over 80 a few times, and 70+ for days at a time. I realize this is not exactly climate change, but it sure feels like it to me. The other thing to consider: humans are the only animal capable of changing climate. I cannot imagine a large chemical or petroleum company worrying about greenhouse gases or ozone holes when it might affect their profits.
 
All I know is what I see up here. When I am on the Arctic coast I see a huge difference. I used to see an ice pack out there. I used to see chunks of ice floating everywhere all summer long. I used to see colder summer temperatures and winter came sooner. In my life time I have seen an overall winter change of several degrees no matter where I am at. It is warmer. It does not get as cold nor does it stay as cold. These observations match up with science as well. I am not an expert just a guy who was working outdoors with his hands on the Arctic coast in 1975 and in 2009 and many times in between.

I suppose you remember this in a 1975 Newsweek article on the global cooling scare, too?

newsweek-global-cooling.jpg


Yet, people are mum about the Antarctica (South Pole) and how it has increasingly gotten colder, even the ocean water and continued expansion of ice on land.
Antarctic Ice Increasing | EcoWorld
 
I cannot imagine a large chemical or petroleum company worrying about greenhouse gases or ozone holes when it might affect their profits.

That's because it's a myth about CO2 and even the "ozone hole" which isn't even a hole to begin with but a thinning that waxes and wanes.
 
That's because it's a myth about CO2 and even the "ozone hole" which isn't even a hole to begin with but a thinning that waxes and wanes.

What are you suggesting? Should we relax our pollution controls to enable these companies to operate cheaper? Do you think, even if this were done, that one penny of that extra profit would find it's way to John Q Public? Or would it become another penny in the CEO's inflated salary? What about the health implications of increased pollution: fact or fiction? Feel free to research this and more.
 
BTW, just a joke here: does the fact that Al Gore's hometown is having record cold mean that he is not there, since he is one of those guys filled with Liberal Hot Air? :giggle:
 
Oh brother - not again... do NOT jump to conclusions about "cold days" in summer. It doesn't mean anything until it's averaged out in the near future.
 
Oh brother - not again... do NOT jump to conclusions about "cold days" in summer. It doesn't mean anything until it's averaged out in the near future.

That's right. If it keeps doing that often, then that's an issue. I don't think we have to panic about that right now.
 
What are you suggesting? Should we relax our pollution controls to enable these companies to operate cheaper? Do you think, even if this were done, that one penny of that extra profit would find it's way to John Q Public? Or would it become another penny in the CEO's inflated salary? What about the health implications of increased pollution: fact or fiction? Feel free to research this and more.
What you've just committed is called a "Red Herring."

Pollution controls are fine when it comes down to regional and local scale where pollution does have an effect on our health (e.g. smog, acid rain, etc).
 
Oh brother - not again... do NOT jump to conclusions about "cold days" in summer. It doesn't mean anything until it's averaged out in the near future.

No conclusions here, just the fact that there were numerous record low temperatures. Which goes to show that climate change is out of our hands.

GTEMPS.gif
 
That's right. If it keeps doing that often, then that's an issue. I don't think we have to panic about that right now.

who says about panicking? Surely the same thing can be applied with this global warming thingy, too. No need to panic.
 
We know that 97 of climate researchers agree with each other from surveys, so it's not just something that the "Green side" claims.
I'd be interested to see what survey you're talking about. If, for instance, you're talking about this one (Survey Tracks Scientists' Growing Climate Concern - US News and World Report), then it's 97% who agree the Earth has warmed over the past 100 years, but only 74% who believe it was induced by humans. Less than half believe it will be catastrophic.

"Skeptics say scientists who don't agree with the theory have their funding pulled, suffer persecution, can't get their papers published, and even risk losing their jobs, so the consensus isn't objective.". This one is a bit weird. Sounds like a classic conspiracy theory. Do you really belive it's a force out there that control 97 percent of climate researchers? If so, I suppose you belive other brances of science also suffers from this?
This isn't conspiracy theory stuff. Scientists themselves complain about it. For example, Richard Lindzen, a scientist at MIT, wrote about it in the Wall Street Journal.

But there is a more sinister side to this feeding frenzy. Scientists who dissent from the alarmism have seen their grant funds disappear, their work derided, and themselves libeled as industry stooges, scientific hacks or worse. Consequently, lies about climate change gain credence even when they fly in the face of the science that supposedly is their basis.
Extra - WSJ.com

And yes, I believe other sciences suffer from these problems. To quote Discover Magazine, "Science, like any other human endeavor, is susceptible to trends and pendulous swings of groupthink." How often does the term "than previous thought" pop up in science literature? Quite often.

The more complex the system, the more rigorous researchers must be. The more impact a scientific conclusion has on society, the more careful researchers must be to filter out their own biases. In that sense, physics is actually one of the easiest sciences because it is the simplest. It gets much more difficult as you move into biology, psychology, and sociology. It's much harder to avoid cargo-cult science with the sciences dealing in more complex phenomena.

Also, your last claim, "Mankind is innocent until proven guilty and so far, the prosecution's behavior is very suspect.", does not work in this case. What if the prosectuor is right, but the man keep on denying, and suddenly, it's too late. People start to die from famine due to loss of food sources, drought, etc etc. It's even possible to deny darwin was right, it's possible to deny the whole science, but it does not mean it's smart or sane to do so.
Ahh, the precautionary principle. If that applied universally, we would be subject to the whims of anyone who wanted to scare us into doing anything they wanted. "You have to scrap your constitution and put us in charge of everything immediately so we can sterilize women and control the allocation of resources or else we'll all devolve into cannibalism within 10 years!!!" "Well, they may be wrong and they do seem a little power-hungry, but gee honey, what if they're right? Better go along with it, just in case."

The history of alarmism has shown us that the burden of proof should be on them and the public should be skeptical of alarmist claims.
 
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The sun always drive the climate. It's the main driver. Without it, Earth would be a completely uninhabitable, iceball of a planet. When energy output from the sun drops it affects how climate behaves. There are other factors as well such as a regional high pressure where there is little opportunity for cloud formation to occur. Besides, July and August are the hottest months for Washington. I live there, too.
http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/htmlfiles/wa/wa.90.html

precisely. Sun is the source of life for Earth. Want a proof of what happens if there is no sun? look at Pluto - a dead cold barren planet. What happens if you're too close to sun? a hot gaseous molting planet like Mercury and Venus. What happens if you're in between with a right distance and right temperature? an Earth :)

and what happens if you're just a little further from sun? Mars but it's barely dead and barren. :)
 
Ummm...it's hot here and been running about average here, high in the 80's in Western WA and 90's and 100s in East WA. I don't think it's caused by the sun, but caused by the strong El Nino or something like that.

That was not my point. The point is that strong El Nino is causing the climate to change for this year causing record lows in other regions while it's normal in other states. I don't think it's the sun spots causing the other states to have record lows.

It has been kinda warm and dry here in Washington state, that's one of the sign of El Nino year. We are possibility gonna have a drier and warmer than normal winter this year. That doesn't look good for snowpack in the mountains.

yes but everything points to sun. El Nino is affected by sun. Global Warming is affected by sun. everything is affected by sun. What's going on in Earth is a natural phenomenon affected by sun. not a manmade cause.
 
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