I Apologize - for my "harsh feelings."

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RainGurl

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I wanted to apologize if I seem so "hard up" against "hearing people."
I won't lie, I have been ..lately. Dealing with misunderstanding, and uneducated people that won't further educate themselves inorder to "understand" our children's need for ASL, and what their losses is about upsets me.

I know that all "hearing" people arent like that. If that was so, I wouldn't have accepted the many people that I have grown close to that "try" to make a positive difference in the Deaf Culture today by helping "hearing" people to understand. I love them greatly, they are our advocates as we are our own.

When I found this site, I was so angry. I have dealt with so much the last few weeks. It wasn't that way in the beginning. My SIL has alot to learn, and I realize that in her "ignorance" I have to be patient, positive and persue every opportunity I can to help her understand." She may not get it all at once, but over time "hopefully" she will.

I guess, for me I see our girls and I start remembering the pain I endured. Being mainstreamed, part of my family (uncles, aunts and grandparents). Even in highschool, it was tough. I only wish that my girls have that same opportunity to succeed and do well without all the crap I went through.

I promise to be more "positive" in future postings. Again, I know I can't ask for "hearing people" to be embracing if I am not the one embracing "hearing" people. Because then that is just doing the same as what has been done to me.

Sincerely, Heart2Sign
 
As a "hearie" I can say I know that many of us, well intentioned or not, are just plain ignorant when it comes to things that affect deaf people. I can understand your frustration and hope that you will keep working hard to educate people - we need it. We just don't know what it is like to be deaf, and some things, well, they just never occur to us.
 
It takes a lot of courage to write something like that. :)

Education requires a difficult balance between "shocking" people to their senses and "holding their hands" so that they want to come in the direction you'd like them to go. I don't think anybody wants you to censor it when something difficult is happening for you. I know I wouldn't want you to and I hope I never came off as implying that. If I did, I apologize because I don't want to seem like I was telling you to shut up, especially when you have a lot on your mind. :(

Some people (like the ones you've described) may never learn. But in the case of those who are open to learning, it's not an easy job. I can't relate to your particular circumstances, being hearing, but I think these comments hold true for most issues where something major is at stake.
 
That is exactly how much I am furious at hearies people who oppressive on the parents who have their healthy and innocent children.

Hearing pediatrics
Hearing audiologist
Hearing otolaryngology
Hearing teachers
Hearing Speech Therapist, etc. etc...

Which the parents will listen our value skill in Deaf education or listen to those hearing doctors and professional??

I have say those several times to emphasize to the parents who were overwhelmed when they found out their babies are Deaf. They will ask for help from hearing people not from Deaf Community.

I am so sick of hearing people oppressive on me rest of my life. I come to work and sit do nothing. They do not realize how much I worked very hard at College to get my degree. They did not want to bother to communication with me to write the notes or listen to the interpreter. They do not feel very comfortable with the interpreters for some reason.

What is more many hearing people burdened on my children’s shoulder to do interpreter for their Deaf mother? It is not the children's job. The hearing people think that I am dumb or not able to understand anything. Oh please... Look at me, I can drive my car, pay my bills, cook the meals, take care of my children, go to work everyday, clean the house, do the grocery, etc...

Why why why itself labeled as DEAF makes the hearing people think that we can't do anything. Why why they keep oppressive on me for years and years. I would not let them oppressive on me. I must fight for my civil right as I want to work as equal as other colleagues. They treat me like first grade duties in my job. Why can't I do advance in my job? Do my ears death bothering them ??

Why do they more respect hearing blind than Deaf people? It is much easier for the hearing people listen and speak as more effectivly in communication with them. It is not fair !!

I would not let the hearing people destroy our true Deaf people's identities. They trained me to learn how to speak for six years. I missed most of the academic that were important in my life. Speech is not important to me ! It made me very ambivalence which I should be force myself to learn how to speak instead of sign language ?

They sound like treat Planet of the Apes as Monkey are human. Human are animals. I feel like they treat us (Deaf) as animals. I would not allow them to put me into the cage to block from the promotion in my career !

I would not allow hearing people destroy my dream to be successful in my career.

That is why, I realllllllllly HATE hearing people called us "Hearing Impaired" Our ears are not broken !! :doh:

Yes, there are many hearing who oppress d/Deaf. And this is out of ignorance I believe.

Personally, I believe that parents don't listen to Deaf because when they find out that their child is deaf it's usually because of being told this by a h/Hearing person. And how they're told this may affect how the parents react. That the parents may not ask for help from the Deaf community may be because of their not being aware of the organized Deaf community. They may have read about events in the newspaper but because they had no personal involvement with d/Deaf they may not have given it much attention.

I understand how you are with the people who are hearing. I have a graduate degree Besides, it was something personal annd not job-related at all. The opression is not just in communication but also in expectations - many times a person who is d/Deaf is not expected to perform at the same level and rate as h/Hearing peers.

I don't believe my children should be interpreting for me when it's something that a professional interpreter would do. If some are uncomfortable with using an interpreter to communicate with me then they need to get over whatever reason they are uncomfortable.
 
Heart2Sign, this isn't Hearing Exchange or the SHHH boards. You're allowed to vent about the hearing world. We don't consider the hearing world/pure oralism/total mainstreaming utopias. It is perfectly OK to vent. Many of us here have been there and done that.
 
Kalista--I think there are three things people do not understand. One is, I don't think people undersand the true nature of ASL as a language with the same status and expressiveness as French, Spanish, Russian, etc. Second is (and you see this to some extent with employees of other national origins besides an English-speaking country), people incorrectly correlate an accent or preference for another language besides English with lack of intelligence. Frankly, this reflects a lack of intelligence on their part, because there is absolutely no way for there to be such a correlation. Third, I think that people don't understand that each deaf/hoh person's situation is different--just as with any hearing person. There are some hearing people who cannot give a public speech to save their lives (for instance), yet this person gets cut a lot more slack (oh, he's just not good at it, he has skills elsewhere, he's a great programmer, etc.).

This is what I see as a hearing observer, anyway.

There's a lot I don't know. So, I'm going to offer you a chance to teach me a bit. :)

If I am in a company recruiting people to come work for us, what can I do to make sure that you (and others) who prefer ASL get the absolute best chance in the company?

I'm asking because there's a chance I may get hired into a recruiting position (got one job lead, I may not get the interview but we'll see!), and as I go further in the HR field I'm hoping to specialize in compliance issues, which includes ADA-related things.

Think of this as a chance to stop a problem before it can ever get started. :)
 
Here are facts about me:

1. ASL is my first language.

2. WRITTEN English is my second language.

3. I can't speak or lipread English or other languages.

4. I can't comprehend the words with/without hearing aids or auditory trainers.

5. I was born profoundly Deaf between 90 and 100 dB

6. I have good residual hearing only when I wear hearing aids, but still am unable to comprehend despite the fact that I had A/V training sessions from kindergarten to 8th grade.

7. I no longer wear hearing aids. I never was implanted with a CI.

8. I can read and write English.

I realized that the Deaf school therapist lied to me. She was trying to make me feel better about myself. I don't need to develop speech skills to make myself feel better. I need to develop my literacy skills to make me feel better. Therefore, ASL and written English are enough for me. My children said, my speech sounds like a monkey. My speech is perfect, "Fuck You". :roll:
 
Sorry if it sounded like I was trying to pry into your personal life...I didn't mean what I said to appear that way. I was thinking in more general terms.

Anyway...at least in my ignorant eyes, it looks like you've got good goals and ideas for yourself. :)
 
hey guys
you have right to speak out how you all feel about hearing people
i do have problems myself

it is ok heart2
 
Kalista said:
I have say those several times to emphasize to the parents who were overwhelmed when they found out their babies are Deaf. They will ask for help from hearing people not from Deaf Community.
Click to expand...

You make a very good point. I think people just don't know what to do. There are some great deaf advocacy groups out there that hare helping people know what to do when children turn out to be deaf, but it has taken a long time.
 
MorriganTait said:
You make a very good point. I think people just don't know what to do. There are some great deaf advocacy groups out there that hare helping people know what to do when children turn out to be deaf, but it has taken a long time.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is the main problem nowadays.

A close friend who teaches at deaf school. He taught several CI students along with the deaf back in '90s. He told me that he realized and witnessed that CI didn't help them much .. rather worse.

Their parents wanted and expected them being hearing in the first place and placed them at hearing schools at first, but they ended up not doing well there. They just deny their deafness and won't accept and face it, you know.
So they sent them to deaf school instead. They were so far behind with learning and not being themselves also. I think CIs are only for few chosen that would suit them well. For certain, they don't suit well for many little deaf kids. We all have heard hot debates over CI in the near past. Geez!
 
Rose Immortal said:
So, I'm going to offer you a chance to teach me a bit. :)

If I am in a company recruiting people to come work for us, what can I do to make sure that you (and others) who prefer ASL get the absolute best chance in the company?

I'm asking because there's a chance I may get hired into a recruiting position (got one job lead, I may not get the interview but we'll see!), and as I go further in the HR field I'm hoping to specialize in compliance issues, which includes ADA-related things.

Think of this as a chance to stop a problem before it can ever get started. :)
Click to expand...

The biggest drawback is KSA.

I happen to be an expert with the data research strategy
working for a non-profit organization for years
where we worked closely with many Government
agencies and universities.

I happen to be one of these deafies
who have always wanted to work directly
for the US Government for years.
There is one small US Government agency
office very near my home I was interested in.
However I gave up because of these KSA requirements.

Possible future solutions: Waive all KSA requirements
for deaf applicants only because of their ASL which
is NOT a written language.

KSA does NOT work for me as a deaf person
who prefer ASL in person.
I was told that KSA is the only way to get into
the government door. They apparently do NOT understand
that I have a very special skill with data research strategy,
but not with writing. Sigh. That's their loss.

One more thing:

I NO longer go to any job fairs anymore !!
Reason: Almost everyone from these booths
repeatedly said same thing "Just go to our website
and look at our website and apply online"
I almost lost my temper toward these people
at these booths because they wasted my time/money.
They do NOT understand that if we have to
apply online means writing English instead of ASL.

The only one exception I would go and
meet/discuss with anyone with hiring authority
to save my precious time.

The BEST solution is to meet him/her in person
rather than TTY, email, VP etc.... One-to-one
meeting with an authority person (include an interpreter)
for only one hour would be the BEST thing to do.
 
Last edited:
Y said:
The biggest drawback is KSA I happen
to be an expert with the data research strategy
working for a non-profit organization for years
where we worked closely with many Government
agencies and universities.

I happen to be one of these deafies
who have always wanted to work directly
for the US Government for years.
There is one small US Government agency
office very near my home I was interested in.
However I gave up because of these KSA requirements.

Possible future solutions: Waive all KSA requirements
for deaf applicants only because of their ASL which
is NOT a written language. KSA does NOT work
for me as a deaf person who prefer ASL in person.
I was told that KSA is the only way to get into
the government door. They apparently do NOT understand
that I am very Good with data research strategy,
but not with writing. Sigh. That's their loss.

One more thing:

I NO longer go to any job fairs anymore !!
Reason: Almost everyone from these booths
repeatedly said same thing "Just go to our website
and look at our website and apply online"
I almost lost my temper toward these people
at these booths because they wasted my time/money.
They do NOT understand that if we have to
apply online means writing English instead of ASL.

The only one exception I would go and
meet/discuss with anyone with hiring authority
to save my precious time.
Click to expand...

Yes exactly, when I applied for promotion job I have seen KSA requirement oral writing. I explained them that we have advance technology to using VP, pager and relay service on the website. Hearing people keep block their minds due to fearful to communication with Deaf people. It is very frustrating for rest of Federal Goverment Deaf employees.

We become tired of seeing hearing people promotion easily due to hear everyday with advance/new technology. They learn very quickly instead of waiting for the interpreter to training us. It cost very expensive to hiring an interpreters. I notice hearing colleagues have no college degrees. I have college degree, haven't promotion since 12 years.

OPM needs to changing better system for the Deaf Federal Employees.
 
They were so far behind with learning and not being themselves also.
Click to expand...
That is an excellent point. So much of the time with oralism, oralism becomes their LIFE. Going "boo-be-bah" for hours, as opposed to learning about actual CONTENT!!!!!
 
I could definitely see replacing "oral skills" in KSA's with "presentation skills". That way, you could do the presentation in whatever way works--be it English or ASL. Either way could be professional and get the point across. I think that would make sense, anyway.

The written requirement seems a bit more difficult to deal with...especially with e-mail being so frequently used. I'm curious what kind of solution you have in mind. Does this mean that an interpreter would translate all correspondence and reports?

BTW, that "apply online" thing happens to everybody at job fairs, and it's annoying for hearing people too. If all they're going to do is say, "apply online" or "go to the website", why bother sending somebody out?

And to "Y", I wouldn't say your writing is bad...you make your point clearly.
 
Rose Immortal said:
I could definitely see replacing "oral skills" in KSA's with "presentation skills". That way, you could do the presentation in whatever way works--be it English or ASL. Either way could be professional and get the point across. I think that would make sense, anyway.
Click to expand...
Perhaps all of us deafies will have to submit resume
along with the blank KSA with only one sentence to
request for the presentation meeting instead of writing.
I assume they probably will disqualify us automatically
anyway only because of their expectation that
"all KSAs should be written only".

Rose Immortal said:
The written requirement seems a bit more difficult to deal with...especially with e-mail being so frequently used. I'm curious what kind of solution you have in mind. Does this mean that an interpreter would translate all correspondence and reports?
Click to expand...
Not necessary. In fact, I spent many years
on the Internet communicated with thousands
Engineers/Developers/Researchers worldwide using e-mail only
on a daily basis almost like customer services support;
mostly were about our work-related issues.

A few times when a person asked me questions via E-mail
that were not that clear to me at all so I simply showed it
to one of our staff members to explain or translate, etc.
Very easy for me to reply back to them quickly
and get things done via E-mail.

However, writing on KSA seem much more difficult
more like a different ballgame for me.

Rose Immortal said:
BTW, that "apply online" thing happens to everybody at job fairs, and it's annoying for hearing people too. If all they're going to do is say, "apply online" or "go to the website", why bother sending somebody out?
Click to expand...

Oh Really !! I'm learning something new from you about
these hearing people being annoyed, too... That's Interesting.

Rose Immortal said:
And to "Y", I wouldn't say your writing is bad...you make your point clearly.
Click to expand...

Yeah, That's why my former employer knew it was more
important for me to make simple points clearly via e-mail
and get our work done rather than "perfect writing".

Rose Immortal, you happen to be one
of the best writers here.

:thumb:
 
Y said:
Perhaps all of us deafies will have to submit resume
along with the blank KSA with only one sentence to
request for the presentation meeting instead of writing.
I assume they probably will disqualify us automatically
anyway only because of their expectation that
"all KSAs should be written only".
Click to expand...

Dunno. Of course, one advantage if you do achieve good written expression is, you can then put on your resume that you're bilingual. I don't know about others, but I'm always impressed by someone who is bilingual--and some companies really value it, too (or if they don't, they're being really shortsighted). Eight years of Spanish and I know I'm still not to the point of fluency... ;)

Not necessary. In fact, I spent many years
on the Internet communicated with thousands
Engineers/Developers/Researchers worldwide using e-mail only
on a daily basis almost like customer services support;
mostly were about our work-related issues.

A few times when a person asked me questions via E-mail
that were not that clear to me at all so I simply showed it
to one of our staff members to explain or translate, etc.
Very easy for me to reply back to them quickly
and get things done via E-mail.
Click to expand...

One weird feature of e-mail...I continue to be amazed at how lazy a lot of native English speakers are with e-mails. Some people seem to think it's OK to not bother with a grammar or spelling check--and then it's no wonder when an e-mail arrives that's as clear as mud. There are some people who just should not be using e-mail, especially not with critical information. My current boss for my assistantship is one... ;)

Given the attention that an enterprising non-native often pays to expressing him or herself in a second language, I would not be surprised if some of the e-mails you're sending are clearer than the ones you're receiving...

However, writing on KSA seem much more difficult
more like a different ballgame for me.
Click to expand...

Formal essays are a bear for a lot of people. When my dad had to fill out KSA's, he asked all of us in the family to look at them before hitting "send".

Oh Really !! I'm learning something new from you about
these hearing people being annoyed, too... That's Interesting.
Click to expand...

I may be the only one...but really, I am getting fed up with the whole "go to the website" thing because even a few years ago, it used to be that you could give your resume to a recruiter and it might actually go somewhere. While I've encountered a few exceptions, most of the time it seems like recruiters use the website thing as an excuse to blow people off instead of doing their job, which should be to actively seek and guide prospects into their company. Maybe I'm just cynical because I'm IN the job-hunting process right now, but that's my personal take on it.

Rose Immortal, you happen to be one
of the best writers here.

:thumb:
Click to expand...

I'm really honored, especially considering some of the tough competition I've seen around here! Just pull up one of the philosophy debates and you'll see what I mean about the whole pool of talented writers here...

A weird trivia item about me...I had to be taught to read at age 2 1/2 in order to learn to speak coherently. I don't know why it was--as far as hearing tests went, I should've been picking up spoken language like any other child, but until I was taught to read, I couldn't manage a simple task like turning a question ("Are you hungry?", for instance) into a declarative response in the correct person. (I would've just repeated the same thing in reply, beyond the age where that's to be expected.) Only when I learned to read did I get past this, and to this day, every thought I have occurs in written form, and everything anybody says to me, turns into written language in my head. Weird... ;)
 
Wow, Rose Immortal, I wish I had your "problem"!!
 
Of course Hearing impaired is out of order since we are not ear broken so therefore people are signed impaired. That s the worst thing that they couldnt communicate wiith us at all while we can communicate in many ways that we can find to get through their heads.

Hearing or Deaf children that we all Deaf people can communicate with while Hearing people cannot able to communicate with us. Is that funny for us to be forced to speak while they do not really understand us while we have speech impairment? We have to speak over and over until they understand if not, write it down to make them understand it better than oral speaking itself. I find this is a real big joke about this situation. Thats a big wacko, I ever know on this earth.

Thank you! ;)
Sweetmind
 
Heart2Sign's
I wanted to apologize if I seem so "hard up" against "hearing people."
I won't lie, I have been ..lately. Dealing with misunderstanding, and uneducated people that won't further educate themselves inorder to "understand" our children's need for ASL, and what their losses is about upsets me.
Click to expand...

That's okay for having your very good reason.. You are not the only one to feel this way. It is not just Hearing people but however hearing and deaf oralism with audist attitude are not being honest to themselves that makes me so angry because they are hurting our Deaf children s future. They kept saying they have no problem with hearing people in this society which is full of it.

We all are legally deaf and do have a huge problem with hearing/ deaf oralism s audist attitude who are so much denials and wont listen to Deaf people and our true experiences. also the problem of their own Attitude.

Keep your chin up and stand up for ur own Deaf rights. ;) You have the right to be mad for a damn good reason that needs to be heard. So that way hearing people can see the truth from us Deafies. Good to have the outspoken in a very honest and truthful statement.

I m proud of being deaf and will never regret that I am deaf after all I was getting all those negative feedback all those years by these audist attitude people..SCOFFS!

Have a good day! ;)

Thank you! ;)
Sweetmind
 
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