How old is Earth? Evolution?

:popcorn: it's gonna be a endless battle about it. The only thing I can say, Earth is old and NO one knows how old it is, bible and scientists...who knows how old this Earth is, as long it's created itself long before we existed.
 
My, what horseblinders!

Reba said:
...or it just shows that God made the planets with mature geology, same as He first created trees, not seeds, birds, not eggs, and a man, not a baby. :mrgreen:
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Theistic reasoning at its best. :laugh2:

Keep tilting at those windmills and don't forget the straws, ma'am!

:thumb:

Hebrew chronology contradicts the age of the earth, so there's no need to pretend you're fooling anyone. :zzz:
 
Miss*Pinocchio said:
So what if Darwin found some bones.... it doesn't mean the Bible isn't true.
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Newsflash: you're confused, or just forgot what you learned in biology class. :lol:

Darwin didn't find "bones," he found how to transform the age-old theory of evolution into a science with the discovery of natural selection.
 
Lawdy lawd!

Reba said:
Because if they accept the Bible as truth about Creation, then they must also accept what the Bible says about sin and eternal judgment. They don't want to confront their own sinful condition and admit that they need a Savior.
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That's painfully false, and a terribly bad generalization of "evolutionists." If you impugn the evolutionists by attributing sinister motives with a sweeping generalization, you are engaging in an ad-hominem fallacy. If you can't discuss the ideas without speculating about the character of the person holding the idea, then you don't have anything to say. :doh:

Evolution is not anathema for some Christians, who are capable of seeing past their prejudices of morality and see the data without importing a lot of teleological baggage to the situation. In other words, the scientific theory of evolution can be reconciled with Christian theism. Here is a well-written essay in this link, if anybody is interested in something that shows things are a little more than black and white.
:fruit:
 
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the earth is about 4.5 billion years old...give or take about half a billion years.

however there's no proof it's that old, its just estimated because there is proof of rocks that are 4 billion years old but the earth must be older than the rocks.

I beleive in Darwin's theory of evolution, not the bible's saying "god created humans."

we have proof and reasoning as to why evolution is practical. but there's no proof whatsoever that shows that "god created humans" is practical.

same goes for every aspect of the bible...no proof. a few years back i beleived in god, but i read the bible 2 times over and came to the conclusion that the bible was just created for cultural and social control.

i'll beleive what i want to beleive
you can believe in god if you choose to.
leave it that way, dont try to change me and tell me im wrong, because when you tell me im wrong, I have proof as to why your wrong, and then you point out why im wrong, then i show proof why your wrong again, and then you point out why im wrong about it, it NEVER ENDS!
 
Umm. I am for science not God... I do practice religion but science have more evidence than bible.. where is noah ark's boat? please.....not many evidences from bible since I believe bible's stories has changed so many times over hundred of years even popes/priests/u name it did change the bible verses.

science do not change the bones like dinosaurs and all. hmm... :|

I know earth is way older than Bible. Eygpt was there bef God ever came up. cavemen, animals, whatsoever.. Cjanik mentioned "bible was just created for cultural and social control" I agree with Cjanik.
 
Question for evolution believers:

From what did the universe evolve?
 
^^ I have an answer to that, but its not as simple as saying "from this".

but earth is a planet full of rocks...whats the rest of the universe made out of? what happens when two comets colide? you get rock and water. the rest you can read about from a website or more credible source than me.


its just like me asking....
from what did God evolve?
 
Cjanik said:
...but earth is a planet full of rocks...whats the rest of the universe made out of? what happens when two comets colide? you get rock and water. ..
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Where did the rocks come from?

its just like me asking....
from what did God evolve?
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God didn't evolve.
 
A theory...no one knows how a planet forms, where did the hot molten rock come from? The rocks come from the hot molten rock underground, from million of years on volcanic activity put layers of rocks and rocks and soil is created by plants and erosion and everything, it's so complicated a textbook would cover 1,000+ pages.
 
yeah where does Rock comes from, where these gas and fire and elements... where they all come from? huh huh??
 
The Heretic said:
For a good historical answer, you can check this essay on my boards, written by a bible scholar.
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Fascinating topic. Whenever I am done with Corporate-related and Family/Medical-related books, I think I will start and pick up these books to read.


A question for Anti-Evolutionists: I wonder if do you know that regular germs and bacterias have evolved into "superbugs" when exposed to antibiotics? There are plenty of medical books/journals supported that fact but here's the two latest studies: Two Studies Document Rise of Superbugs in the Environment and older study: 'Birth of a superbug'.

I guess superbugs' presence will dismiss these anti-Evolution talking points for good?
 
Magatsu said:
Fascinating topic. Whenever I am done with Corporate-related and Family/Medical-related books, I think I will start and pick up these books to read.


A question for Anti-Evolutionists: I wonder if do you know that regular germs and bacterias have evolved into "superbugs" when exposed to antibiotics? There are plenty of medical books/journals supported that fact but here's the two latest studies: Two Studies Document Rise of Superbugs in the Environment and older study: 'Birth of a superbug'.

I guess superbugs' presence will dismiss these anti-Evolution talking points for good?
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Wow, it appears that I forget to ask a "right" question. What I was trying to ask is: If you don't believe in evolution then how can these regular bugs be evolved into "superbugs" when exposed to antibiotics?

If not evolution then how? By God's orders? By magic? Pray tell, by what?
 
Magatsu said:
Wow, it appears that I forget to ask a "right" question. What I was trying to ask is: If you don't believe in evolution then how can these regular bugs be evolved into "superbugs" when exposed to antibiotics?

If not evolution then how? By God's orders? By magic? Pray tell, by what?
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Well we can feel the wind and water is very clear and no smell.

But why we have to have everything smell, feel, and see.

Is it possible there is an invisible being.....?

A spirit that does not have any smell, no feel, can't see through microscope,,,
A spirit that is soooo powerful...
Something that is so beautiful... and peaceful... and all...
Maybe GOD is all of that...

Is it possible,

okay Mag, I will read Heretic post.
 
This is an interesting thread. I'll try not to go into my beliefs too much right now as I just woke up (and is too complicated to explain), but I will say that I am agnostic and believe in Evolution. I was raised and confirmed Methodist, and believe it is a good religion, but I cannot believe in the Creation in the sense that it portrays.
I guess my most obvious points on why I don't believe in the bible is because it says God created the earth, and then Adam and Eve, and that it has all happened in the last 15 thousand or so years. However, we know for fact that the dinosaurs existed for millions of years and that the earth is about 4.5 billion years old. Humans have only been on the planet for a tiny fraction of the time the planet has existed.

As an agnostic, I do believe in God. I believe 'He' is same god as taught by Christian beliefs, just in a different way. I guess I can try and explain it a little.... Scientists are learning that there is many aspects to the universe that they know nothing about, and have recently discovered things such as dark matter and dark energy that are found throughout the universe. I think 'God' is like a collective and conscious energy that spreads throughout the the universe and that exists in everything all around us. As scientists believe that the Universe came into existance thru the 'Big Bang', I believe the Big Bang was the moment that that energy gained consciousness. So, basically, God did create the universe and everything in it. What is considered our soul or lifeforce is part of that energy which is God, and thus we were created in His image. When we die, our energy returns to that collective.

There's a lot more to my beliefs, but I probly freaked you all out enough as it is. To sum up tho, in a way, I believe in both Creation and Evolution and that the bible is a collection of stories (legends) told by people around campfires to try and explain things that happened at one time or another.

I am a very spiritual person, and do believe in good and evil, but not in heaven or hell as described by the bible. I think the Good are returned to the collective energy that is God when they die, and the Bad go somewhere not so pleasant.

Because of my beliefs, many will probly say I'm blasphemous or something, but we all must believe in something. I have nothing against any religion, just don't believe you have to go anywhere in particular to be a part of it..... My 'church' is everywhere, I just need to walk outside and look around or up into the sky and see the beauty. I live my life to be a good person, and I believe in God in my own way. If I am wrong and the bible is right, I cannot believe God would condemn me for my beliefs.

I think everyone should be exposed to religion and the bible because of the morals taught by them, but also that when old enough, they come to their own decision on what to believe. I do not judge anybody by their beliefs. I just have to believe there is more to our existance than living and dieing and my beliefs are what my experiences and teachings in life have led me to conclude. Plus, when I finally realized what my beliefs were, it felt 'too right'......I can't explain it any other way.

Now to return to orignal thread starter, I'll end my novella in response to Mrs. P's question "Do the Bible people knew how long the earth evolved around the sun?"...... technically, the holy Catholic church still believes that the sun and planets orbit around the earth, but permit people to 'pretend' that the sun is the center of our solar system for calculating locations of them in our sky such as for knowing the seasons and when to plant crops. I don't have a link to prove this atm, and don't feel like looking for it, but others here may be able to confirm that for me.

I suggest reading the book Pale Blue Dot by the late astronomer, Carl Sagan. In it he compares Creation and Evolution and talks about our place in the universe.

Anyways, I hope everyone doesn't think I'm crazy now. :type: :wiggle:
 
SimpleMan said:
Now to return to orignal thread starter, I'll end my novella in response to Mrs. P's question "Do the Bible people knew how long the earth evolved around the sun?"...... technically, the holy Catholic church still believes that the sun and planets orbit around the earth, but permit people to 'pretend' that the sun is the center of our solar system for calculating locations of them in our sky such as for knowing the seasons and when to plant crops. I don't have a link to prove this atm, and don't feel like looking for it, but others here may be able to confirm that for me.

I suggest reading the book Pale Blue Dot by the late astronomer, Carl Sagan. In it he compares Creation and Evolution and talks about our place in the universe.

Anyways, I hope everyone doesn't think I'm crazy now. :type: :wiggle:
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Thank
There is noooo way the Bible people can see the earth goes all the way around the sun... in a naked eye.
If they see the sun goes around the earth, that take one day.

I can see how they come up with a minute, second, hour and day...

but month and year?
They probably knew the earth nod up for the winter and nod down for the summer.
Probably count all the hot days and all the warm days, and all the cool days, and all the cold days...
Wow, I guess the Hebrews were one of the first mathematicians
And Galilieo probably got all the information from them...
It is sad that people are showing prejudices toward Hebrews....
and want us to think Hebrews ain't intelligent enough to come up with this.

Shame on you guys.
 
Biblical cosmology

The Bible says very little about cosmology, such as the position of the earth in the universe, the nature of the fixed stars and planets, seeing as its main emphasis was on the history of God’s dealings with man.

Much of what the Bible says concerning cosmology is couched in terminology whose definitions are uncertain and disputed by Hebrew scholars. Another difficulty in recognizing Biblical cosmology is that at times the Bible condemns as apostasy beliefs such as the worship of the sun, moon, planets and stars, cosmology derived from other religions and not from the Bible.

Some scholars claim that what is often taught as “Biblical Cosmology” is actually medieval cosmology, which was a bastardized mixture of Hebrew terminology and Greek philosophy. An example of that is the reference to the four elements listed below, which is nowhere taught in the Bible.

The material for the subject is meager, dependence for the most part having to be placed on ambiguous references chiefly in the poetical sections. As such, these poetic references could be taken as poetic exaggerations and the ancient writers had no intention that they should be understood as literal expressions of their cosmology.

Sky, sun, moon and stars
The sky, the abode of the stars, is described as a "raqiya'" (rakia, Hebrew for a plate); that is, a rigid, broad, solid plate possessing a certain thickness. According to Genesis 1:14, this raqiya' was set in the midst of the waters, and it divided the waters above from those beneath. According to some readings, God made it of matter already existing at the time of Creation; that is, God did not "create" it at that time. The raqiya' representing the sky in Ezek. 1:22 resembled ice; therefore it is quite possible that the author of Genesis, like Ezekiel, regarded the sky as being composed of solidified water or ice. Such a sky, being transparent, would permit the stars, which are located above its vault, to be seen through it.

Other scholars believe that the sky (which is a plural noun in Hebrew) was made up of an expanse between the waters, and another above. Scholars differ on the definition of "raqiya'" (pronounced “raqiyya”): some say that it refers to a hard plate, others to an empty space or one filled with atmosphere.

Stars as the Hosts of Heaven
The stars were supposed to be living creatures. If the difficult passage (Judges 5:20) may be regarded as other than a poetical figure, the stars "walk on the way"; they "come out" in the morning, and "go in" at night. By a miracle, sun and moon are made to stand suddenly still (Josh. 10:12). They fight from their courses like warriors on the march (Judges ib.); the poet perhaps thinks of falling stars. In later times the stars are spoken of as "the hosts of heaven." This conception is paralleled among the Assyrians, kinsmen of the Hebrews, who likewise conceive of the stars as soldiers serving the god of heaven, Anu, and probably also the somewhat similar god Ninib, whose abode was the planet Saturn.

The stars stand in God's presence, to the right and the left of God's throne (I. Kings 22:19; II Chron. 18:18); they serve Him (Neh. 9:6; Ps. 103:21), and praise Him (Ps. 103:21), 148:2). Like the kings of earth, they may be consigned by God's judgment to the nether world (Isa. 24:21 et seq.); and God will in future execute judgment among them as among the nations of earth (Isa. 34:4 et seq.). Reverence is offered to the stars as living creatures (Jer. 8:2).

At the head of this starry host stands a "captain of the army" (Josh. 5:14; Dan. 8:11); according to the passage in the Book of Daniel, he was the star highest in altitude as well. By this designation the planet Saturn was probably intended, the farthest removed from earth and therefore the highest in the heavens, and which is held by the Assyrians to be the "bellwether" of the flock.

This starry army belongs to God; hence the frequent expression "God of hosts" indicates that God is the actual leader of the heavenly array. According to a later view, however (Zech. 4:2, 10), the seven planets are evidently termed the "seven eyes of God", just as the planet Saturn was the eye of Anu, lord of heaven among the Babylonians. It would appear, therefore, that they were no longer considered independent beings, and of course the other stars likewise.

Yet this whole section is based on the presupposition that when the Bible talks about the “hosts” around God and in the heights above, that it is talking about the stars. But the hosts are not specifically mentioned as stars, hence “hosts” could refer to angels or other creatures.

Showing how far interpretation is taken, the passage in Zechariah 4:1–10 recounts a vision of a menorah (ancient Hebrew lampstand) with places for seven lamps. A vision is a visual parable, not necessarily a physical object. Secondly this vision does not mention stars. Therefore the interpretation that it refers to the seven planets is not obvious from the text. (A menorah with seven lamps was a temple decoration since the time of Moses.)

Planets
Of planets, as far as ascertainable with any degree of certainty, only two are mentioned in the Hebrew Bible: Saturn, called by his Assyrian name "Kévan" in Amos 5:26; and "Meleket ha-Shamayim", "the queen of heaven," Jer. 7:18, 44:17, 25, etc. That the latter means Venus is shown by the cakes which are said to have been baked for her. Among the Assyro-Babylonians the cake-offerings were called "the bread of Ishtar" (Venus). The Hebrew name for these cakes was almost identical to the name for Saturn, so was the “queen of heaven” Saturn?

Modern day biblical cosmologies
The Catholic Church after having rejected scientific cosmological endeavors during the Copernican revolution, has in the last century been ever more increasingly involved with scientific cosmology. A Roman Catholic Priest in the employ of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Georges Lemaître was, in fact, instrumental in the development of the Big Bang theory of the universe. The Catholic Church and many other mainline Christian denominations accepts modern cosmology as acceptably in concord with interpretations of the Bible that are more allegorical than literal. The Conservative and Reform traditions within Judaism also accept modern cosmology as compatible with their reading of scripture.

In contrast, some modern-day Young Earth creationists have tried to create Creationist cosmologies that they claim are compatible with a plain reading of the Creation according to Genesis in order to explain observations that appear to refer to a universe that is older than they would prefer. There are also a limited number of radical creationists who believe that strict modern geocentrism or even a flat earth are the only acceptable cosmological arrangements in concord with the bible, though their numbers are vanishingly small and their arguments are rejected by the majority of creationists. Supporters of mainstream science dismiss all these cosmologies as pseudoscience.
 
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