How do you write from ASL to english grammer?

Some people asked me "why you signed into esl-asl, not full time asl".
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Thats PSE as well. I have never seen any deaf people sign english only.
 
VamPyroX said:
That's why I think that deaf children should be taught to use SEE instead of ASL when growing up. ASL would be nice during the first few years, but when it comes time to develop full sentences... SEE should be introduced. I was raised on SEE from age 5 to 18. After that, I had already learned proper grammar structure before switching to ASL.

At NTID, the average grade level for English is 3rd to 5th grade. Most of those kids were raised on ASL. I mean... STRONG ASL.
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Well said Vampy, I agree competely....I was raised on SEE also, and still using SEE..
 
Sweetmind said:
I have never seen any deaf people sign english only.
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There are lots of videos, especially ones for interpreter training, that show deaf people using Signed English. Also they tend to use deaf people on interpreter tests for transliterating tasks (Signed English to spoken English). To my eyes it's very awkward, with tons of fingerspelling.

I don't see it much in the community either, though, more PSE and ASL. When I do encounter someone using true Signed English it's usually in a classroom situation where they want me to voice EXACTLY what they say, or it's an ESL class where the exact English word order is necessary. (Often we use SEE in that situation as well.)
 
Monaila said:
Hi everyone,

I can't sleep from my bed, but it's about 2 hours. No matter, I ask you on question. How you write from ASL to English grammer?

I grew up to write ASL and ESL and it's both to me. By the way, I'm centered between ASL and ESL all my life. My English 101 and 102 class graded straight "C", but Literature English graded final "B". That's odd. I know my writing grammar is very struggle to me. How I read the book, write the journal, or things?

Thank you for advance advice,

Christy
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If you know both ASL and English, you can--it's just a language translation.

The wording of your post is kinda confusing, though.
 
Monaila said:
Hi everyone,

I can't sleep from my bed, but it's about 2 hours. No matter, I ask you on question. How you write from ASL to English grammer?

I grew up to write ASL and ESL and it's both to me. By the way, I'm centered between ASL and ESL all my life. My English 101 and 102 class graded straight "C", but Literature English graded final "B". That's odd. I know my writing grammar is very struggle to me. How I read the book, write the journal, or things?

Thank you for advance advice,

Christy
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I have taken British Literatures, Descriptive English (the beginning), English 101, and English 102. It's not easy. I have a tutor to help me through these problems.

I know from my experiences that the communication is the only way to improve my grammars. However I knew that communicating with deaf is not going to help me and my grammar except if they sign in every WORD including "s", "ing", and past tense, etc. While they signed in exact English to me, even thought my signing are not good in English language, I have learned lot from them and my grammar improved dramatically. Every day of my life I grew up with ASL interpreters too. I often asked them to sign every word as they can. I can only give you an advice is to keep on reading, write a short paragraph everyday of your life, and watch TV with closed caption.

Just write everything down without thinking. Be yourself. Then you'll see what you're having a problem. Revise it. Try to change your ways and study the grammar books to find out what's wrong with your grammars. Meet with somebody who's expert with grammars. Ask them to read it, and they'll see what's wrong with it. They'll help you to improve your grammar.

~Demise
 
to mention about spanish signs similar to asl.

Yes, Spanish Signs are similar but also far from English as well. Depends on where you are. I have been in Central America for four years enough to understand the difference. I learned in a month. Real quick since their signs tend to be "easier" and pretty much 1/3rd is ASL as the 2nd third of Spanish Signs are ASL with a BUT. Say, the SEE for I as myself.. I pointing on chest like "I am going to the store" You sign in ASL, "I go store." Well, for them, in spanish, "Yo vamso mercado." It means I am going to the store in spanish. but their signs are similar. Yo as in I am. vamso means go. but the last third of spanish signs are very different. Mercado means store but their concept (based on Costa Rica's) is M on both hands and point to each other horizonically and vertically similar to Mall sign concept. By the way, ASL does not have sign concept for Mall here.

To be honest, I like Central American Signs because some concepts ASL does not have, I adopt it and still use it here. I am more of Spaniglish type of signer. Say, "I am going to the Mall" in good English grammar but in my style, I sign this, "I go mercado" and a few do understand what I am saying. Already a very few people are using my style of signing around my hometown!

In Central America, I sign fully Central American Sign Language. By the way, it is properly called Central American, not Spanish because the Latinos and Latinas told me that if you say Spanish, you are talking about Spain's Spanish Sign Language.

My 2 cents.
 
Another problem with many deaf children trying to learn English is that they are unable to decode it. Hearing children are exposed to the language almost 24/7 via their ears while deaf children are exposed thru vision and if the deaf children arent seeing English in print as often, that can make learning how to write English very difficult cuz of all the grammatical rules.

Reading was the key to helping me to be able to write English correctly. My only problem with my writing is that I write too simple. I would like to write using more expanded vocabulary words.

Hope that makes sense. I am really brain dead now so if I dont make sense then I better get off. LOL!
 
Wow and Interest posts!!! I do have plm with ASl and ESl :):)
 
Shel90
I agree with you that reading helps you learn english alot ! If you want to learn more complicated wording I would suggest that you try reading some stories at different reading levels until you find some you like. Try Beverly Lewis. She writes books for many age levels on the Amish of Lancaster County. http://www.beverlylewis.com click on the link "Book List" and see if there are any books there that look interesting, then check out your local public library. Jim
 
Monaila said:
That's very true, vampryox

I proofread alot problems. It's How, why, what, who, where, and when. However, there is only "HOW?" It's hard one.

For example, how's your day? How's your life going on? How's about your sister doing? That's easy one.

Another example, How do the sun prevent from the tree? Some hearing people do not understand me. I think it's make not a sense.

That's different question.

Christy
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I think you can ease the transition of learning english grammar while still thinking in ASL at least sometimes without talking broken english. For instance, your sentence you think from big to small sun(big) tree(less big) topic sentence. You could say, "The sun, it is hot. A tree can protect people. Helps them stay cool." (The sun is still big, the tree is less big and the people less big compare tree.) The sun is still the topic, time is consistant throught the sentence in the present. Another example: In english we say I'm going to the doctors because I had an accident yesterday. In Asl It would be Yesterday happen I involve car accident. Today go see doctor will me. Now to keep the asl rules in place (to some extent) and sound grammatically correct in english, You can say: "Yesterday, I was involved in an accident. So today I will go see the dr." Like I said this is a transition that may help you in the beginning until you are more fluent in english, but this doesn't work in all cases. But try it and see if it works in some situations. But obviously reading including closed caption on your tv as well as ready lots of books will help you.
 
I just memorize the rules even though it does not make sense to me. It's same with math, you have to memorize the rules for algebra and you have to do the same for English.

This is reason why I can't watch interpreter while reading the article at the same time in classroom. Because interpreter will signs in ASL and that will be so confusing if I was reading something because my brain is still in English "zone". But, I have learned to switch between sign language and English all the time.

This is why I had hard time speaking in front of class for my presentation because my notes will be in English but I sign more like ASL, and two languages goes on at the same time is not easy and can be very confusing. Also being nervous does not help either!

Practice...that's all I can suggest. Practice by reading and write. Also, pay attention to errors when people edit your paper. Even ask them why, it may help you some.

In English, it's all about putting words in right order and ASL is all about context. At least for me, which is how I am able to get by. Even now, I am getting an English tutor for my grammar, because I still make mistakes with mine. Unless you are gifted with understanding any language, average hearing people still make mistakes. No one is perfect. It's just harder but not impossible for deaf people since we have to do it by memory instead of sound.

Practice is your best friend.
 
Y said:
i hate to bring this up when u mentioned "force ASL"
that is a subtle form of abuse by your teacher...
that's why you were having a difficult time with ASL.

if it was NOT for your "mean teacher", you would NOT
have much difficult time with ASL.

Some people were never be able to learn
either English or ASL ... This might also have
something to do with "Learning Disability"
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Yea, I agree with u.
 
Al said:
This is a moot point. What's difficult for one person is easy for another. I'd say that learning vocabulary was certainly more time-consuming than learning grammar. I don't know how it is for sign languages, but for us non-deaf people the difficulty of the vocab varies depending on how closely the language you're learning is related to your mother tongue (obviously). Hence, while Chinese grammar is actually, so I'm told, not that hard, it's a difficult language for English-speakers to learn (even leaving the writing system aside), because the vocabulary bears little or no resemblance to that of English. They teach you grammar and syntax in language classes because without them you can't form coherent sentences. They are the basis of the language. Once you've got the grammar and syntax sorted, then you can build up your vocab. Otherwise you'll just end up with a heap of words (or, I presume, signs) that you don't know what to do with :)
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Actually, English word concept and ASL sign concept are closely realted. The problems lie in the cognitive shift from a visual spatial language to an auditory verval langauge. The sequencing is completely different.
 
robbielyn said:
I think you can ease the transition of learning english grammar while still thinking in ASL at least sometimes without talking broken english. For instance, your sentence you think from big to small sun(big) tree(less big) topic sentence. You could say, "The sun, it is hot. A tree can protect people. Helps them stay cool." (The sun is still big, the tree is less big and the people less big compare tree.) The sun is still the topic, time is consistant throught the sentence in the present. Another example: In english we say I'm going to the doctors because I had an accident yesterday. In Asl It would be Yesterday happen I involve car accident. Today go see doctor will me. Now to keep the asl rules in place (to some extent) and sound grammatically correct in english, You can say: "Yesterday, I was involved in an accident. So today I will go see the dr." Like I said this is a transition that may help you in the beginning until you are more fluent in english, but this doesn't work in all cases. But try it and see if it works in some situations. But obviously reading including closed caption on your tv as well as ready lots of books will help you.
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I've never heard ASL syntax described as going from big to small. Its more of a time sequencing. The sun has to come out before you need the protection of the trees.
 
jillio said:
I've never heard ASL syntax described as going from big to small. Its more of a time sequencing. The sun has to come out before you need the protection of the trees.
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Sometimes it's time sequence, sometimes it's general to specific, especially in establishing locations or physical description.

MAN~WHITE~OLD~SHORT~GLASSES~EYES-BLUE

CHARLESTON~DOWNTOWN~KING-STREET~POST-OFFICE~UPSTAIRS~ROOM- 216

BOX~GREEN~OPEN-LID~LOOK-INSIDE~TWO-BUTTONS~BUTTON-RED, BUTTON-BLUE~BUTTON-RED PUSH


That's why interpreting for some hearing people is difficult--they tell their stories in non-ASL order.

Hearing person telling story:

"One day my friend and I were working on a project together when he revealed his deepest secret to me.

"I knew this friend since high school. He married my sister's best friend. We grew apart for a few years when he went to college and I joined the Army. Three years ago, he was laid off from his job and joined my company. We play cards together every week.

"Anyway, now we were working on a project together. I was shocked when he revealed his secret.

"I could tell something had been bothering him for weeks. Our other friend, Tom, noticed that, too. Tom, my neighbor, mentioned it to Sue, my wife, and me during dinner at Red Lobster two weeks ago. By the way, the shrimp scampi was a good deal. You should try it.

"So, I was concerned when Joe (that's not his real name), opened up to me. His secret was...."


Deaf person watching terp: :zzz:
 
Everyone is right here, write a lot, read a lot, practice and get friends to proof read, use grammar checker on computer and proof read for yourself.

I grew up oral and reading anything I could get my hands on so when I sit down to write I have a pretty good sense of what I want to say in english. I still porrf read my work.

BTW English Lit and English are two way different courses. :) Lit concentrates on what the stories are about and your perspective, giving you a lot more elbow room to get marks. English is more about the structure and syntax of language so is a little more difficult to get marks in. (I too got a B+ in Lit and a C+ in English).
 
Fly Free said:
ive read all kinds of english structures -- be it ASL written, ESL written or proper english -- my grammatical english seems to be ok -- Vampy is right, if u write often enuf ur grammar will improve but i would like to add another thing -- READ alot too! any kind of genre u are interested in -- be it horror, suspense, mystery, romance or whatever -- it also helps with ur grammatical structures too cuz in the books they have proper english structures and etc :D i was a BIG TIME bookworm when i was a kid and that helped with my understanding of english -- i just have never quite understood the RULES that are associated with the english language :roll: and yet my written english seems to be ok according to teachers, friends, family, etc etc go figure LOL
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I agreed with Read, Fly Free.

That is true that everyone need to read more to be less problem on ASL to english. Still helping abit and grammar won't be easy...only help is able to change from ASL to english. I has friends who almost never read and had asking for someone to read for them and they prefers VP over IM anytimes...their writing were not pretty one before IM and VP.

That would be shame to live with only ASL without reading or writing.

I am not great on grammar and able to change fro ASL to english becuase I enjoyed to read any magazines and comics. I gotta be better nowdays than I was in high school (fault to my clown class).
 
jillio said:
I've never heard ASL syntax described as going from big to small. Its more of a time sequencing. The sun has to come out before you need the protection of the trees.
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Jillio: If you reread that particular sentence, the sun is hot, I mention the sun first,then the tree, then the person. Deaf do this alot in asl. In order for the sentence to make sense to them, they would never go out of sequence. We in english do it all the time, as Reba's story shows. It's only because we have heard the language all the time that somehow we can make sense of an otherwise confusing language. Even other languages are sequential. The car accident sentence I used it would break asl grammar to say I am going to the doctor's today, because yesterday I got into a car accident. The accident happens first, then we go to the doctor. I know you know this already but I am just explaining my rationale. If it would help her to keep asl sequencing rules in her learning english grammar, it's like signing pse or case but using english grammar until one learns the rules to asl grammar that's all it's a bridge. Anyways no matter, reading reading reading right?
 
robbielyn said:
Jillio: If you reread that particular sentence, the sun is hot, I mention the sun first,then the tree, then the person. Deaf do this alot in asl. In order for the sentence to make sense to them, they would never go out of sequence. We in english do it all the time, as Reba's story shows. It's only because we have heard the language all the time that somehow we can make sense of an otherwise confusing language. Even other languages are sequential. The car accident sentence I used it would break asl grammar to say I am going to the doctor's today, because yesterday I got into a car accident. The accident happens first, then we go to the doctor. I know you know this already but I am just explaining my rationale. If it would help her to keep asl sequencing rules in her learning english grammar, it's like signing pse or case but using english grammar until one learns the rules to asl grammar that's all it's a bridge. Anyways no matter, reading reading reading right?
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Correct, reading is the key. And yes, languages are sequential, but ASL sequencing differs from English sequencing. This can be demonstrated by the sequencing difficulties of ASL based children on verbally based IQ and profieciency tests. Once again, visual vs. auditory verbal.
 
jillio said:
Correct, reading is the key. And yes, languages are sequential, but ASL sequencing differs from English sequencing. This can be demonstrated by the sequencing difficulties of ASL based children on verbally based IQ and profieciency tests. Once again, visual vs. auditory verbal.
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I would love to know more about the visual vs. auditory verbal stuff. I love to understand how the deaf visual mind thinks so maybe you can elaborate more without getting too technical, or maybe put up links on studies. I just think the differences are so neat.
 
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