Hearies view on a CI kid... its a bummer

[Maria]

Thank you very much for provide those links... That's link I want to look for ages at several threads in the past.

I tried to convince the people what I know CI users in real life is hear different sounds between CI and normal hearing, facial nerves, tinnitus, etc.. Unfortunlately, my share posts about them are being denied or ignored. Those link is prefect... Again, thank you very much!!!

No problem. You're welcome !

That's why I am not for CI on babies and toddlers because it's their body, not mine... It's their decision, not mine.

Yep, it's why I am against CI. I support deaf children who are remained " deaf ". Deaf children/babies are very unique!

 

[Cloggy]

FYI, I am against CI itself, not your deaf children. Understand ? I really wish that the company DON'T invent that CI in the first place.

Did you read the link I just provided ? Did you read what the risks are ? I don't think it is helping at all. If the company KNEW about what the risks are, then they wouldn't have invented it. ASL will last long time because ASL don't have any risk. The future will always have ASL, but CI ?

I remember when I was a child wearin' HAs, I felt that the purpose of it was for my hearin' parents. They EXPECTED me to talk with voice for THEM. When it comes to me, I felt out of league, because I am NOT hearin' like my parents with my HAs. It was different. I was in my own " deaf " world.

I believe that CI children will feel the same way that they HAVE to speak FOR the hearin' people in despite of themselves bein' deaf. They have to put aside " deaf " and put themselves in " hearin' " for the hearin' people, because of CI for what it is representin' to. CI for who ? For hearin' parents and people, of course. That's one thing I opposed.

First of all, you talk about risks... and your focus on it seems to be based on how much you dislike CI. Not on actual information about it.
Much of your frustration is due to YOU experiencing that you have to talk for your parents.
Keep in mind that there is a huge difference between having to speak when you cannot hear yourself (or hear just a little) or when you are deaf but you can hear.
Your experience, sad as it is, cannot be used to dismiss CI, or to take away a childs opportunity to hear. I only have to look at my daughter to see that she loves to hear and speak..

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Well, we rather to live with risk-free. We only accept if there're life saving surgery.

Some people must be brave to accept risk on any non-life saving surgery. I respect them when I has different feeling as them.

 

[Cloggy]

Well, we rather to live with risk-free. We only accept if there're life saving surgery.

Some people must be brave to accept risk on any non-life saving surgery. I respect them when I has different feeling as them.

You drive a car?
More risk doing that than a CI-operation..

 

[Liebling:-)))]

You drive a car?
More risk doing that than a CI-operation..

car is not a surgery.

 

[Cloggy]

car is not a surgery.

But it sure can get you killed..... so why do you take that risk?

 

[shel90]

:roll:

Whatever happened to being impressed with a deaf child who is strongly fluent in ASL and is able to describe what a Venn Diagram is in her own words at the age of 8 without any cues from the teacher? That is impressive as welll but it seems like the general public is more impressed with deaf kids being able to use their voices.

I agree with Liebling...it is not the CI that makes the child successful..it is the child's motivation and drive.

 

[shel90]

At the risk of getting another bash session going by other posters........here goes. We've been able to discuss things reasonably lately, so I'm going to take you at your word!

No, I don't agree with calling CI implanted children robots, any more than I agree with hearing children making fun of deaf children in the mainstream classroom. That kind of behavior is just not acceptable to me.

As far as looking out for the child's welfare.....I don't think that Maria meant that as it maybe sounded. I believe that hearing parents who opt for CI on an infant have often times rushed their decision a bit, and there are those who haven't taken the time or been provided the opportunity to have all of the information available or been exposed to alternatives. Mind you, I'm saying some, not all.

Despite the disagreements in philosophy that we have, jackie, I don't believe that I have ever referred to your children as "robots". Our disagreement is not in the use of CI, and shel and I have both said many times that CI is a parent's decision. I had reasons for not going the CI route with my son, just as you had reasons for going the CI route with your children. But those are my reasons, and my child. Same with you.

I do think that this article at the beginning of the thread, however, is an example of the disservice that is still done to some kids in the mainstream. My concern is not whether this child has a CI, or doesn't have a CI, but that those responsible for her education understand that she is not a hearing child simply because she has a CI. When that attitude is allowed to exist, it is the deaf CI child that suffers, because they are not provided with a proper education. And the parent that allows an educator to teach their child with that attitude, and doesn't co anything to correct those misperceptions, has done a disservice to their child as well.

I hope that answers your questions.

Jackie...what Jillo just said goes the same for me. It is the attidudes that I am very much against and usually the parents (the ones I have encountered) got the CIs cuz they heard stories about it making deaf children talk and hear like hearing children. Many of them said that they were told that the CI will open doors for them. Like if they remained deaf, they wouldnt have any opportunities so to a parent hearing that kind of talk would indirectly pressure them to take the CI and oral route and refuse to use ASL. We had a workshop at work yesterday from 2 educators who are big names in the CI field for several years. I like the fact that they agreed that ASL wont interfere with spoken language development and getting both would be the best benefit for the children but on the other hand, they kept saying how CIs "open" more doors for deaf children. That felt a little biased cuz I know so many successful deaf people who dont have CIs. Makes me wonder if they use those words with the parents influencing their decisions. There was a little bit of that attitude that I am against happening at the workshop but I kept quiet cuz it wasnt the right time nor place to start an argument.

 

[Maria]

First of all, you talk about risks... and your focus on it seems to be based on how much you dislike CI. Not on actual information about it.

Who said I dislike CI ? I am against CI. To me, CI is a " gamble " thing to risk anythin'. And, I don't think it is very smart to invent CI when someone KNEW it could risk anythin'.

Much of your frustration is due to YOU experiencing that you have to talk for your parents.
Keep in mind that there is a huge difference between having to speak when you cannot hear yourself (or hear just a little) or when you are deaf but you can hear.

But, I can hear ? Why should the hearin' parents PUT a deaf child IN " hearin' " for the sake of the HEARIN' parents ? Why should the hearin' parents put a child's " deafness " aside by implantin' CI on a deaf child ? To me, that's very cruel to do that to deaf child. That's like kinda of abuse in a sense way.

Your experience, sad as it is, cannot be used to dismiss CI, or to take away a childs opportunity to hear. I only have to look at my daughter to see that she loves to hear and speak..

You are takin' your daughter's world away by lookin' at her to see that she loves to hear and speak in YOUR world.

 

[Cloggy]

..........
Who said I dislike CI ? I am against CI. ...........

And the difference is...???

..........
But, I can hear ? Why should the hearin' parents PUT a deaf child IN " hearin' " for the sake of the HEARIN' parents ? Why should the hearin' parents put a child's " deafness " aside by implantin' CI on a deaf child ? To me, that's very cruel to do that to deaf child. That's like kinda of abuse in a sense way.

You didn't understand what I was saying..
I said "...........Keep in mind that there is a huge difference between having to speak when you cannot hear yourself (or hear just a little) or when you are deaf but you can hear. " where "you" is not you, but "a person"..
Sorry about that confusion...
So let's put it this way:
"Keep in mind that there is a huge difference between having to speak when a person cannot hear him/her-self (or hear just a little) or when a person is deaf but can hear. "

...Your experience, sad as it is, cannot be used to dismiss CI, or to take away a childs opportunity to hear. I only have to look at my daughter to see that she loves to hear and speak..You are takin' your daughter's world away by lookin' at her to see that she loves to hear and speak in YOUR world.

Ah, so you know what world my daughters is ??? Guess when someone is born deaf, that person HAS to stay deaf...????
Enlighten me... I'm curious....

 

[jag]

I have lived it. And its' not something that existed now and is just in the past. I see it every day on my special needs kids listservs! Parents are still devastated emotionally by relatively mild disabilites in their kids (ie physical issues, but no mental issues) Many of them STILL have baggage about the trappings of disabilty, and think "oh if Wittle Smashlie doesn't need to use what I think of as special needs tools, everything is fine and dandy!"
.

dd how many times do I have to request that you quit using 'wittle smashie' when describing kids who have disablities. I HAVE a child with mental retardation, I have a child who has hearing problems I have NEVER and NEVER will refer to my kids in such a nasty way. Exactly why do you have such a problem with parents who do go out and get what their child really needs.

Just a general FYI it is NOT unsual for parents to go through a grieving process and a time of denial after their child is diagnosed with a disablity. If you ask any 'expert' you'd know that. If you are trained in working with persons with disablities you should also be aware of that fact. Some go through that process rather quickly other take longer, and I'm sure some never get to complete exceptance but they are very few.

A parent whom you think of a not excepting their childs disablitly because of their pushing for things you seem to think they shouldn't try for is actually not necessarily in denial but more likely to be very informed and not willing to back down to much. One must remember that many of the teachers and staff who are involved with IEP's are trained to use the Delphi technique. Read up on it. It's not just getting parents to compromise but to take control of the whole process and guide the outcome to what is exceptable for the school. Parents who are informed don't fall into that trap. Those are the parents of your smashie I guess.

Have a nice day. And please quit referring to children with disablities as 'wittle smashie' because you don't agree with their parents way of educating them. thank you.

 

[Cheri]

Maybe you do not understand but if a child is going to learn oral language through an implants it needs to be done right away.

Oh I do understand, I have grew up oral half of my youngster life, and You can be able to teach a deaf child speech and language without cochlear implant. It's the truth.

 

[jag]

FYI, I am against CI itself, not your deaf children. Understand ? I really wish that the company DON'T invent that CI in the first place.

Did you read the link I just provided ? Did you read what the risks are ? I don't think it is helping at all. If the company KNEW about what the risks are, then they wouldn't have invented it. ASL will last long time because ASL don't have any risk. The future will always have ASL, but CI ?

I remember when I was a child wearin' HAs, I felt that the purpose of it was for my hearin' parents. They EXPECTED me to talk with voice for THEM. When it comes to me, I felt out of league, because I am NOT hearin' like my parents with my HAs. It was different. I was in my own " deaf " world.

I believe that CI children will feel the same way that they HAVE to speak FOR the hearin' people in despite of themselves bein' deaf. They have to put aside " deaf " and put themselves in " hearin' " for the hearin' people, because of CI for what it is representin' to. CI for who ? For hearin' parents and people, of course. That's one thing I opposed.

I got my CI about 18 months ago. I really really am glad that it was invented. It's much better tech then HA's. Much better.

As for 'what if' better technology comes along. While I could have waited in anticipation of something better, I would have had to spend those months or years with the continued struggle in my life of trying to understand and missing so much of what goes on around me. The companies make their new processors compatatible with with older internal devices so even the older technology gets updated. Oh you mean 'what if' they come up with some type of cell regeneration for hte cochlea? Well that's probably 10 or so years away so I'll take this technology now. And evidently so do alot of parents. You only live once so make the most of it.

 

[Maria]

And the difference is...???

Oh, yes there's difference. The difference is THAT device is wrong. It's wrong for the company to invent CI.

You didn't understand what I was saying..
I said "...........Keep in mind that there is a huge difference between having to speak when you cannot hear yourself (or hear just a little) or when you are deaf but you can hear. " where "you" is not you, but "a person"..
Sorry about that confusion...
So let's put it this way:
"Keep in mind that there is a huge difference between having to speak when a person cannot hear him/her-self (or hear just a little) or when a person is deaf but can hear. "

Ah, so you know what world my daughters is ??? Guess when someone is born deaf, that person HAS to stay deaf...????
Enlighten me... I'm curious....

Well, you know what ? I am not goin' to argue with you. You figure it all out on your own. Make sure that you don't make a mistake in the near future. Make sure that you read the link I gave Jackie in my previous post.

 

[jag]

My friend Katie's daughter Remy, started out with Sign.....she even went to the school for the deaf part time, and later went to a magnet program for the dhh (one of those schools where a dhh program is housed) Fast forward a few years, and she's DROPPED the Sign. That's awesome.........b/c it was REMY'S choice. I also know the parents who run the AG Bell Mass chapter. Their kids have CIs. They started out with ASL, and then DROPPED IT. It really needs to be the KIDS' choice. Too often with oral only or oral programs the mentality is that "oh those kids don't "need" ASL....they are doing fine with just oral. Oral oral oral should be the sole focus of a dhh kid's life.

I do remember that Cloggy stated his daughter was chosing to speak rather then sign so they were following her lead. Some on here seemed to think that was awful. Hope you weren't one of them since you seem to think that your friends daughter makeing that decision to drop sign is ok.

 

[Maria]

I got my CI about 18 months ago. I really really am glad that it was invented. It's much better tech then HA's. Much better.

As for 'what if' better technology comes along. While I could have waited in anticipation of something better, I would have had to spend those months or years with the continued struggle in my life of trying to understand and missing so much of what goes on around me. The companies make their new processors compatatible with with older internal devices so even the older technology gets updated. Oh you mean 'what if' they come up with some type of cell regeneration for hte cochlea? Well that's probably 10 or so years away so I'll take this technology now. And evidently so do alot of parents. You only live once so make the most of it.

Have you read the link ( Benefits/ Risks ) I provided in my previous post ? I would suggest you to read the " risks " in that link. Don't get your hope high.

 

[Cheri]

Jillo and Shel,
I was wondering what your thoughts were on what Cheri and Maria said. Honestly I am not looking for a fight, I really want to know what you feel about what these 2 ladies have said. Especially the part of CI kids being robots or how we CI parents are not looking out for child's welfare.

I never said anything about kids being robots, please don't drag my name into this. Careful how you point your fingers at, because four fingers would be pointing back at you.

My view is a choice to have the cochlear implant, where's the child's choice in this? That's my point. You may think you know what's best for your child, no parents always make the right decision nor knows what's best. Hearing parents have no knowledge of the deaf when they bring a deaf child in the world, They faced with varying ways to deal it, is confusing and stressful, cochlear implant is the first option they would have in mind, because of language and speech, but at least have those parents tried at first with language and speech without the go ahead with cochlear implant? I believe not.

Many parents who have deaf implants child don’t encourage their child to sign at all and either does many parents don’t take time to learn sign language themselves either. If you're a parent of a cochlear implant son, may I ask do you sign to your son, does your son have knowledge of any signs?

 

[Cheri]

I got my CI about 18 months ago. I really really am glad that it was invented. It's much better tech then HA's. Much better.

I'm glad you're happy with your CI, it was your choice because you know what's best for yourself and you live with it.

 

[highlands]

jackiesolorzano -

Benefits / Risks

Good luck !

I read the link. Thanks. IMO, benefits are greater than risks.. If I was profoundly deaf and had no significant benefit from hearing aids then I would take the risks..cuz I wouldn't have much to lose.. some risks like meningitis and injure to the facial nerve are more related to the surgery than implant itself.. just my opinion..

of course, one may not consider 'hearing' necessary ..They may prefer living in Deaf culture .. I don't disagree with them.. It's their choice..

in the end, it depends on the individual's life conditions and preferences.

 

[Cheri]

of course, one may not consider 'hearing' necessary ..They may prefer living in Deaf culture .. I don't disagree with them.. It's their choice..

That's not always true, not every deaf person who doesn't need to hear prefer to live in the Deaf Culture, I for one don't have a cochlear implant and I do explore in both worlds.

Most Deaf children who have hearing parents, being raised in a hearing household, would raise the child in a hearing world, Most Deaf parents who have hearing children being raised in a Deaf household would raise in a hearing world because the child itself is hearing. Understand the differences? I haven't seen a Deaf parents who have a hearing child would only explore their hearing child in a deaf world, maybe both worlds, maybe just the hearing world.

That's why it's important to me it is, that hearing parents should explore their deaf child to both worlds, not just the hearing world not just the deaf world.

If a hearing parent only want to explore their deaf child into a hearing world only, that means they're selfish parents who don't think of their deaf child. Sorry to say that but it's the truth.