got the hearing aids today

So when these same children are out and away from their families, they are able to read the sounds of unfamiliar people, because they know/understand the sounds of speech/words/mouth shapes. Cueing supports the speech development in children who use their voices as they have a clear understanding between voice and not voiced and other nuances of speech.
Yes, but can they do that without the cues? Can they read the speech of people who have very soft voices or hard to understand accents? What if they have hard to understand speech? They would have to use the cues to make themselves understood.
It's a good tool, yes....but overall it shouldn't be a primary tool.
 
Cued speech doesn't offer complete phonemic awareness. It gives basic phonemic information but it cannot cover all the phonemes of English.
 
Cued speech doesn't offer complete phonemic awareness. It gives basic phonemic information but it cannot cover all the phonemes of English.

JennyB - Would you kindly explain what has lead you to make this statement?
Thanks.
 
My guess as to why she made this statement is that this is what she's studying in school and has prob covered this in one of her classes already lol..and overall...JennyB is pretty smart :p
 
JennyB - Would you kindly explain what has lead you to make this statement?
Thanks.

There is information considered to be phonemic such as aspiration that is not covered with cued speech.
 
There is information considered to be phonemic such as aspiration that is not covered with cued speech.


JennyB - Aspiration for me, is considered a speech term, as in the puff of air at the end of the word "hit''. CS is not a speech tool. I would appreciate the opportunity to read this information. Would you be so kind as to provde me a link.


Thanks.
 
Cued speech doesn't offer complete phonemic awareness. It gives basic phonemic information but it cannot cover all the phonemes of English.

JennyB - I have been pondering your statement. Are you referrring to allophones?
 
JennyB - I have been pondering your statement. Are you referrring to allophones?

It isn't so important in English, but yes allophonic variation is not covered. While allophonic variation does not affect semantic meaning, it seems as though there are times when the allophonic properties would be relavent to speech production. I don't know...I am all for cued speech, I have just noticed lacking in the applications I have tried to use it for.
 
I don't know...I am all for cued speech, I have just noticed lacking in the applications I have tried to use it for.
Exactly my point. It can be a useful tool, but it's far from a universal pancea.
It was also designed not to be a communication tool, but to help in English class.
Using it in an every day context would be like writing in a "hooked on fonix werked fur me" style every time you write.
 
It isn't so important in English, but yes allophonic variation is not covered. While allophonic variation does not affect semantic meaning, it seems as though there are times when the allophonic properties would be relavent to speech production. I don't know...I am all for cued speech, I have just noticed lacking in the applications I have tried to use it for.

JennyB - Thank you. I understand now. I obviously do not know what application you have tried to use it for. This article by Dr. Cornett may be of interest to you, regarding adapataion of CS. I have provded you with a portion. as well as the link.

Procedures

The first step is to study the phonetics of the target language. It is not necessary to learn the language, but a modest degree of familiarity with common words is desirable. The ability to make all the sounds and accurately imitate the pronunciation of words is essential. Generally, this will result in the ability to read the language aloud, slowly, with good pronunciation. Of course, being a native speaker of the language is a great advantage, though a native speaker must guard against thinking of his/her own dialect as
preeminent.

The second step is to compile a complete list of phonemes of the target language. For the purposes of adaptation of Cued Speech the following simple definition of a phoneme can be used, though it lacks the rigorousness of formal (and very elaborate) definitions used by phoneticists: "A phoneme is a family of closely related sounds ordinarily thought of by native speakers as only one, and necessary as a distinct group in order to perceive differences in the meanings of words and phrases." For example, the various shades of the short a vowel in the English word fat, from that used by most Englishmen to the flat short a of southern Mississippi are all thought of as "short a," even though one is aware of the differences among them. Whether one uses the sound as made by an Englishman, or that used in the southern United States, the meaning of the word is the same. Thus, all the various shades of the sound of short a belong to the one phoneme, short a, and are the allophones that belong to the family of that phoneme. Cued Speech is a phonemic system. It does not distinguish between allophones within a phoneme, except in special cases that will be explained later. The test for determining whether two specific sounds belong to different phonemes is the existence of a minimal pair, a pair of words with differed meanings that are identical except for the two sounds in question. For example, the existence of fat and fit affirms that short a and short i are different phonemes. Remember that we are considering only sounds, not spelling. Another example: In many languages the two vowel sounds pull and pool are allophones, that is, they can be used interchangeably without changing meaning. In English they are separate phonemes, as is indicated by the different meanings of pull and pool. In English and German, the short i as in fit, the sound of long e, as in feet in English, ie in German (biegen) are separate phonemes. In most languages (Spanish, French) they are allophones, members of a single phoneme ranging in acoustic quality from short i to English long e, but all spelled as i.

A complete list of the phonemes of the target language can usually obtained from a book on the phonetics of the language. However, it necessary also to take note of allophones of various phonemes, in cases which there may be reason for Cued Speech to distinguish between allophones. For example, in the 21 countries in which Spanish is the major language, there is great variation in the pronunciation of the word yo, which means I. In Castilian, the most prestigious dialect of Spanish, used wide in Spain itself and by some speakers in several of the countries of South America (such as Columbia), the usual pronunciation of the consonant is that of yin yes. But, in Argentina and several other South American countries, and even by many speakers throughout Spain, the pronunciation is like s in pleasure and vision. In Puerto Rico, the prevalent pronunciation is like j in Joe, and many Spaniards use this pronunciation also. These three sounds are allophones; they can be used interchangeably without changing the meaning, and without causing
confusion anywhere. There are two reasons for cueing these allophones differently in Spanish. The first is that their use is so much a matter of culture and pride in some countries that parents will want their deaf children to be able to distinguish and use the pronunciation preferred in that country. The second reason is that two of the three allophones (zh and dzh) are the same on the mouth, but the other one (y) is different. Thus, I designed the Spanish adaptation (on the advice of a committee of Spanish-speaking persons from six different countries) to provide for distinction among these three allophones. In most languages it will not be necessary to distinguish among allophones.

After a complete list of phonemes has been assembled, the next step is to group the vowels into groups assigned to the several hand locations, and the consonants according to the eight or so hand configurations. They must be grouped so that no group contains two phonemes that are too similar in appearance on the mouth. Usually, one begins by arranging the phonemes essentially as they are in English, and then making changes as needed. If in the target language the vowel i represents only a single phoneme (not i and ee as in English), the vowel arrangement of Spanish may be a better starting point. When the list of phonemes is complete, and a trial arrangement is in place, three things should be checked. First, each group
of vowels or consonants should contain at least two phonemes (preferably three), so as to follow the basic principle that the reader must use the information seen on the mouth separate the sounds within a group designated by a specific cue. Second, if there are only two phonemes in a group, one of them should not be a low-frequency phoneme, in order to prevent the cue being interpreted as a "sign" for a specific sound. Finally, a series of trial drafts of the arrangement should be made and tested. For example, in the writer's work with Dr. Anna Metlyuk and Dr. Nadezhda Evtchik, of Minsk, the goal was to produce a workable adaptation that accommodated both Standard Russian and Byelorussian. It was necessary to work through four successive trial drafts, over a period of months, to arrive at one that was as nearly satisfactory as possible.

Cued Speech Journal V 1994 p19-29

www.cuedspeech.org/PDF/journals/vol5-3.pdf
 
Exactly my point. It can be a useful tool, but it's far from a universal pancea.
It was also designed not to be a communication tool, but to help in English class.
Using it in an every day context would be like writing in a "hooked on fonix werked fur me" style every time you write.

deafdyke - I understand that you have your opinions of CS and I respect that.
 
loml, I think it can be a good tool......I just don't think it's a great "everyday communication" tool. In other words I don't think it should be the primary tool used. I think it should be used more in English class and in learning how to read.
 
loml, I think it can be a good tool......I just don't think it's a great "everyday communication" tool. In other words I don't think it should be the primary tool used. I think it should be used more in English class and in learning how to read.

That's what I think too and I think it should be used in speech therapy/classes if you want people to understand phonetic.
 
good discussion!

You guys are better teachers than you know, even with the multiple opinions. I didn't even know some of this stuff existed.

We go in for MRI/CT in mid April to try to determine the cause of my daughter's hearing deficit. The CI candidacy assessment is the same day. Open minded as to future options- we're going to weigh the info and take our time.

EI has been out once, and is coming again in April. The schools have sent the TOD out twice, and I have a private ASL instructor working with her at day care (I asked that she include the hearing kids) once a week for two hours. Still undecided about which manual communication method, but I'm going to throw everything at her that I can. I bought a bunch of big picture books and she's very attentive when we show pictures and do the signs. Also we use the actual objects when we can. Milk, food, change diaper, Apples, ball, etc.

We also gave her a name sign- the letter M off the chin, kind of like cute.
 
Still undecided about which manual communication method, but I'm going to throw everything at her that I can.
Excellent! It's important to intitally give dhh kids a full communication toolbox. I know the argument " it's hard for hearing parents to learn a second language." and that's true. That is very true. However, it also goes the other way too. Hearing and talking can be hard work for the kid. Not in a " can't access speech/sound" way (like in the old days) but, more like the way a forigen exchange student could speak English, but they are BEST at (and really thrive in) their native language.
Also, ASL/Sign could really help your daughter suceed. In addition, you prolly don't have access to really good oral programs or even oral schools.
And don't feel hesistant to opt for the CI. It DOES sound like she's a perfect " right off the bat, absolutly NO benifit from HA" canidate. Plus, the CI is getting a lot more accepted by the Deaf. (look at how many of us here opt for it)
And I know you're far away from Iowa School for the Deaf but I would contact them anyway. They may be able to point you towards some local resouces. I'd also contact the Deaf School of your neighboring state, for the same reason.
 
Back
Top