Get over it: Sweden is not the socialist utopia some believe

Magatsu said:
I may will have to research on the link between terrorism and Right-wing in the future, the result will be VERY interesting.... the more I understand why these problems in Sweden escalating every year... only because of these Extreme Rightists. Violence & Terrorism and Extreme Rightists -- that does request a long-term study in these criminals.
All civilized nations and groups are against terrorism, Nazism, racism, and anti-Semitism. Calling those violent, hateful "-isms" "Right-wing" can incite people to believe that there is some connection between conservative Americans and those groups. Of course that is not true, but by mixing the term "right-wing" in with those groups could mislead people into making a connection. Some people don't realize that the term "right-wing" or "conservative" as it refers to European political philosophy is not the same as American political philosophy. "Conservative" refers to long-established ideals of a particular political group. If that group was communist (such as the former Soviet Union), then a Russian "conservative" might be yearning for the good old socialist ways. In the United States, socialism is "liberal" or "left-wing". It is a matter of perspective.
 
Reba, well... Welcome to an age of Right-wings and their massive hatred. That's Right-wings (or rather, Fascists) for you. That said lots about them.

Reba said:
You can call them neo-Nazis or Facists if you want. Whatever you call them, it is awful that Sweden allows the neo-Nazi type groups to continue. I am surprised that you brought up such a negative aspect of your beloved Sweden.
Unlike certain people, it is unethical for me to hide the ugly side about Sweden (by that, I mean these Right-wings/Fascists/Conservatives). Codger posted the negatives in Sweden which got me wonder what does cause these problems. Unlike Codger, I am seeking out the source of these problems by asking these members of Political Community and found the source: Right-wings. I was stunned but not surprised at same time.

I surely am not like these America's Corporate News, I am here to show all kind of truths about anything. Anyway from what I understand with these comments at Political Community by different posters, certain party is working on some legislations to repair the problems included block Right-wings from seats in government to stop their violences. I believe I mentioned once in my old post (in different topic) that Right-wings had been interfering the progress in Sweden for years by violences and such. I am sure that you do know me a bit that I tend to be non-biased about many things as much as I can but sometimes, my biased judgment does take over without realizing that I was biased about the informations/subjects. After all, to err is human and I am human.

Reba said:
I guess Sweden is less tolerant of diversity than the United States.
Once again, by these Right-wings, yes, that is entirely unfortunate and sad at same time. But are you sure that Sweden is less tolerant of diversity than America? My guts said otherwise. America governments/Corporate news tend to withhold about these stuffs, it is quite embarrassing for them. DeLay's latest unethical behaviors verified my point above.

We can discuss more in the pms (which I will pm you concerning about one of your comment), This topic is Codger's property so it is all up to him to spin, rave, etc... like I did in my topics *gasp* Yes, I am quite blunt about myself!
 
Reba said:
All civilized nations and groups are against terrorism, Nazism, racism, and anti-Semitism. Calling those violent, hateful "-isms" "Right-wing" can incite people to believe that there is some connection between conservative Americans and those groups. Of course that is not true, but by mixing the term "right-wing" in with those groups could mislead people into making a connection. Some people don't realize that the term "right-wing" or "conservative" as it refers to European political philosophy is not the same as American political philosophy. "Conservative" refers to long-established ideals of a particular political group. If that group was communist (such as the former Soviet Union), then a Russian "conservative" might be yearning for the good old socialist ways. In the United States, socialism is "liberal" or "left-wing". It is a matter of perspective.
Well, the ideals are near-infinitely same in these behaviors, activities, etc...

I will do it thru pm from now to discuss bit more about these comments that you posted.

btw, Reba, you can post my comments in this topic that I plan to share with you thru pm if you feel like. I don't care but I will ask you to not share the certain comment if I feel that shouldn't be in the public.
 
Magatsu said:
Well, the ideals are near-infinitely same in these behaviors, activities, etc...
I am just trying to clarify your use of the phrase "right-wing". The right-wing groups of European nations are not the same politically as the "right-wing" groups of the United States, Asia, Australia, Africa, etc. The way you presented your information made it appear that there is a world-wide "right-wing", which isn't true.
 
Right-Wing Terrorism on the Rise

There is reference about Sweden in this article:


The shooting on 11 August of small children and their teachers at the North Valley Jewish Community Center, Granada Hills, California is only the latest in a spate of racist and anti-Semitic terrorist attacks by right-wing radicals—not only in the United States, but also in Russia and in Europe.

It is now clear that Buford Furrow, the man who shot and injured three children and two adults at the community center and killed a Filipino-American postal worker, was connected with neo-Nazi and extremist right-wing organizations and groups in the U.S.

Furrow’s automatic-rifle attack was well-planned; his van contained thousands of rounds of ammunition that could have been used in later assaults, some flak vests, body armor and survivalist literature, a Washington state map. Tracts titled War Cycles, Peace Cycles and Ranger Handbook were also found in the van.

According to the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), Buford Furrow, 37, reportedly lived with (or according to other sources was married to), Debbie Mathews, the widow of Robert J. Mathews. Mathews had been head of “The Order” ( www.adl.org/backgrounders/an_phineas.html), the most violent and notorious American domestic terrorist group of the 1980s. Furrow allegedly met Debbie Mathews at the headquarters of Aryan Nations, a neo-Nazi and Christian Identity group based in Hayden Lake, Idaho. Robert Mathews, died in 1984 in a shoot-out and fire while trying to hold off federal agents who had surrounded his hideout on Whidbey Island, Washington.

According to former neo-Nazi skinhead Tom Leyden, now a consultant for the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, in the mid-1990s Furrow was a skinhead giving hand-to-hand combat training at a Hitler Youth Camp in Hayden Lake. Leyden was quoted by CNN, said that Furrow’s philosophy was “hardcore Christian Identity.” His worldview included the belief that “the Jews are evil, that the whites are good and the good have to go kill the evil.”

Despite reports of possible links to hate groups, Los Angeles Police Chief Bernard Parks said the suspect Furrow appeared to be working alone in the Jewish center incident.

The United States and Russia lead in right-wing terrorist attacks

A not exhaustive list of shooting and bombing attacks in the last few months illustrates the sharp rise in Right Wing extremist attacks

4 April 1999: A powerful blast outside a downtown Moscow office of Russia’s Federal Security Service injured three people and shattered dozens of windows.

According to the Jewish Telegraphic Agency (JTA), officials with the Federal Security Service believe that the bombing may have been the work of the same obscure group that claimed responsibility for a failed grenade-launcher attack on the U.S. Embassy in Moscow in late April. That attack was reportedly carried out to protest the U.S.-led NATO military operation in Yugoslavia.

The group that claimed responsibility for the failed embassy attack recently urged those U.S. citizens who opposed the NATO air strikes to leave Moscow. The group, called Skif—which means Scythian, an ancient warlike people—said it would continue “acts of retribution” against those Americans remaining in Moscow after its deadline.

According to other sources the bombing may have been the work of the same people who bombed a Moscow synagogue on May 13, 1999, because the bomb was identical to the device used in the bombing of the Marina Roscha Synagogue (see below). Security service officials also said that both had been planted in a similar manner. The officials gave no explanation why those responsible for the synagogue attack would want to bomb the Federal Security Service office.

17 April 1999: A homemade bomb injured nearly 40 people in Brixton, a

mostly black neighborhood of London, Great Britain.

On April 24 another bomb detonated in the trunk of a car in Brick Lane, a primarily Bangladeshi neighborhood in London's East End. Six people were injured, none seriously. This was the second race-related attack within a week. The two bombs were apparently of the same type - nails, shrapnel and a simple timer.

On April 30, an explosion at the Admiral Duncan pub in Soho, London left three people dead. Two of the dead were a pregnant woman and the best man at her wedding. Sixty-five people were injured; many lost limbs or were severely mutilated by flying glass and nails.

In both cases a neo-Nazi group called Combat 18 claimed responsibility for the blasts. As was the case with the Brixton bombing, the target in the Brick Lane attack appears to have been chosen for symbolic value. The racially mixed Brick Lane community was the focus of a two-decade battle by residents and anti-racism activists to shut down the local office of the right-wing National Front.

British police have arrested and charged a 22 year-old engineer with carrying out the series of bombings in London. David Copeland of Cove, Copeland was charged with perpetrating all three of the bombings. Inside Copeland's home police discovered explosives, wiring, batteries, clocks, sports bags and several pounds of nails.

He was apparently working on his own and police say that they are not looking for any one else in connection with the attacks. Assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan police, David Veness, said at a press conference that Copeland doesn't appear to have any connection to neo-Nazi groups.

13 May 1999: The Marina Roscha synagogue in Moscow, Russia, was bombed just minutes after some 70 children and their teachers had left the three-story synagogue building after celebrating the Jewish holiday of Lag B’Omer. Two workers at a nearby construction site at a Jewish community center were lightly injured by the blast. The bomb, equivalent to more than a pound of TNT, partially destroyed two floors of the building

The same night the Marina Roscha synagogue was attacked, a burning container was thrown at the Darchei Shalom synagogue, the newest of Moscow’s four synagogues. The container caused a small fire near the building’s outer wall. Three days later, the rabbi’s car was burned outside Darchei Shalom.

A neo-Nazi group, Russian National Unity, allegedly claimed responsibility for the attack on the Marina Roscha synagogue. But the group’s leader, Alexander Barkashov, denied that it was involved. Several nationalist leaders, however, said the attack could have been a reaction to the prominence of Jews in the Yeltsin government.

18 May, 1999: An explosive charge was discovered inside a bag at the entrance to the “Shalom” theater in Moscow. One of the theater employees said she found a bag on May 10. Hoping that someone would come to pick it up, she took the bag out of the building and left it outside without checking its contents. Days later, a passer-by took the bag and left its contents—a cylinder-shaped explosive device—at the theater’s entrance. The police defused the device.

May 1999: The synagogue belonging to the Birobidzhan Jewish community, in the autonomous province of Russia, was damaged twice this month. A bomb was discovered at the synagogue less than three weeks after two bombs went off near Moscow’s two largest synagogues. Police said there could be a link between the three events.

May 1999: In Britain, shots were fired at the Maccabi building in London. The background of the attack is unclear.

18 June 1999: Arsonists attacked three synagogues in Sacramento, California. The attacks occurred almost simultaneously, indicating that they were coordinated. Anti-Jewish and anti-NATO leaflets found on the premises read, inter alia: “The ugly American and NATO aggressors are the ultimate hypocrites. The fake Albanian refugee crises was manufactured by the Jewish media to justify the terrorizing, the bestial bombing of our Yugoslavia back into the dark ages,” and “We are Slavs, we will never allow the international Jewish World Order to take our Land.” The police suspect that The National Alliance and the World Church of the Creator were behind the attacks (http://www.adl.org/backgrounders/sacramento_arsons.html#wcotc). These two white supremacist organizations habeen expanding and have become increasingly active in the United States.

28 June 1999: A car-bomb targeted antifascist activist and his eight-year-old son in the Stockholm suburb of Nacka, Sweden. The explosion seriously injured both passengers. This act was the culmination of a series of nazi harassment directed against antifascist activists in the Stockholm area.

More.... http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=87

Another nice extra link: World: Europe Swedes rally against racists


So far, I have 239 links of Rightwings and still getting more links from PC members. I will post/attach the zipped bookmarks once the topic finally cool down (already 16 pages in less than half day, 99% of them posted the links). However, I want to add one thing about my posts in topic... I am sure that some certain people will love to jump the gun on me about my so-called 'stereotypical' comments. Well, yes, that's entirely true that I was stereotyping but I am posing as a perfect mirror of some of these certain people. All I did is: fighting the evil by becoming the evil. I also am trying to turn their heads to look into their mirror and see what stares back at them. So does Magatsu really stereotyping in these posts? Flatly "no". Everyone, that means.. NO as in no. I hope this post is non-spinnable for everyone.

Ok, I am done with this topic and will post/attach again once I have either: 1,000 links or topic finally cool down. Have a nice weekend everyone of you!
 
Reba said:
I am just trying to clarify your use of the phrase "right-wing". The right-wing groups of European nations are not the same politically as the "right-wing" groups of the United States, Asia, Australia, Africa, etc. The way you presented your information made it appear that there is a world-wide "right-wing", which isn't true.

Yes, they're all different, but they're all bad anyways.
 
And why further muddy the waters by selectively make commentary via PM and not here?? Baffles the spit outta me......
 
I just hope I don't start to see people foaming at their mouths anytime soon.
 
Tousi said:
And why further muddy the waters by selectively make commentary via PM and not here?? Baffles the spit outta me......
Respect - that's where many certain people are sorely lack of. I showed my respect for Codger by restrain my opinions and share it over thru pm. After all, this topic is Codger's property and I simply followed the AD rules.

Maybe to clarify what I mean by 'respect'. Allow me to post the definition by ol' dictionary.com:

To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.
To avoid violation of or interference with: respect the speed limit.
To relate or refer to; concern.

See the highlighted line? Ah! There it is! Always glad to be helpful! :thumb:
 
A brief yahoo search of these terms turned up this many hits. Do I think all people of the left wing (liberal) of politics are of this ilk? Hardly. Very very few. Just as very very few of the people in the right wing (conservative) of american politics are of the group that you posted Magatsu. Your lack of tolerence of opposing views demonstrates a basic flaw in your liberal thinking. One tends to err when one paints with too broad of a brush. Have a good week.
145,000 for leftist guerrillas
180,000 for leftist massacre
222,000 for leftist atrocities
222,000 for leftist rebels
240,000 for leftist dictatorship
243,000 for leftist assassination
359,000 for left wing radicals
609,000 for leftist regime
687,000 for leftist communist
733,000 for leftist terrorist
 
Magatsu said:
So far, I have 239 links of Rightwings and still getting more links from PC members. I will post/attach the zipped bookmarks once the topic finally cool down (already 16 pages in less than half day, 99% of them posted the links). However, I want to add one thing about my posts in topic... I am sure that some certain people will love to jump the gun on me about my so-called 'stereotypical' comments. Well, yes, that's entirely true that I was stereotyping but I am posing as a perfect mirror of some of these certain people. All I did is: fighting the evil by becoming the evil. I also am trying to turn their heads to look into their mirror and see what stares back at them. So does Magatsu really stereotyping in these posts? Flatly "no". Everyone, that means.. NO as in no. I hope this post is non-spinnable for everyone.

Ok, I am done with this topic and will post/attach again once I have either: 1,000 links or topic finally cool down. Have a nice weekend everyone of you!
Well, since I am not "left-wing", I guess that makes me part of the evil dark side. The weird thing is, I am not a terrorist, I don't hate blacks or Jews, I have never shot anyone, I think Nazis are the scum of the earth, and I would never dream of stereotyping all left-wingers.
 
ryantss said:
Yes, they're all different, but they're all bad anyways.
So, you have never met me but you judge me bad?
 
Banjo said:
I just hope I don't start to see people foaming at their mouths anytime soon.
No foam out of my mouth; only honey, Sugar. ;)
 
Well, Codger, I assure you that you are my hero for opening my eyes about these Rightwings and their terrorisms plus numbers of crimes that they commited in Sweden, Europe, America, etc etc... I have lots, lots of articles to catch up.

I am infinitely indebted to you. You just cracked the gate of 'Hell' and I just opened it wide and become intoxicated & drown in these sea of facts & hard truths about Rightwings thru this topic. Well, you just don't know how grateful I am for this topic. I just cannot say thank you enough... And this topic also made me want to move in Sweden even more.

Keep that in your mind, Codger that you are my hero. H-E-R-O. God bless you. People, give Codger a round of applauses, he surely deserves it. Yessir! If not for this topic, I still will be a dumb white sheep who would follow these white sheeps and walk to the clifff and dive into the inevitable of death.

Thank you!
 
Reba said:
So, you have never met me but you judge me bad?

Depends on how far right you are, I suppose. Still, I'm against anyone who opposes care and aid for people who are in circumstances that are the same as mine or who are in similar circumstances.

However, this topic has sorely gotten out of hand, and I apologize for perpetuating the cycle.
 
Hehe :rofl: what a sorely poor attempt to counter the several of facts that I posted with your yahoo results. It is beyond hilarious... I ran on few different terms of 'Right-wings' which recieved average 2,900,000 results and higher. But should I waste my time on your childish game and post these so-called 'numbers' by search engines in this post? I don't know about you but I rather to waste my time on productive activities, no? I mean, I don't understand why you would think that 'numbers' of yahoo or any kind of search results will prove anything or even impress anyone...? that is almost comical but you are entitled to share the numbers of search results. If it is articles (not rants), oh yeah, it does make any difference but... search engines? huh? I honestly would think that you do know better than that. I mean, these Right-wings tend to 'spam' or repeatedly themselves with these terms that you used in their articles (also included liberals/Leftists). It requires only elementary level of common sense to realize the obvious. I mean, come on, even leftist blogs use the 'leftist' term in thier articles. I think I better to leave this 'game' up to you to play and tinker. I kept sticking to your 'Sweden' subject in my posts. Hint. Hint.

Speaking of America, if you say so... I will say again in my previous post: America governments under Bush/Corporate News tend to withhold these informations to save whatever face they have left. DeLay's latest unethical behavior is one of many, many examples. If a democrat in DeLay's position and do what Delay did, the news will be over and pee on anywhere.... That said much, really. Before you can spin my words any further, I do love America but not its current policies. That comment is offically non-spinnable.

And also the lack of your ability to understand or even comprehend opposing views demonstrates a fundamental flaw in your conservative thinking. You can say that: "one tends to err when one paints because of this very, very fragile handle which will break... even with the gentlest of touches because of the absence of the ability to comprehend or grasp the concept." Don't you agree that it does leave a nasty mark on your palm when you grip the handle and it breaks? It will make everything bit harder for you to grip the things. It is quite annoying, no? So please be aware that you speak for yourself as much as you do for me. That will be helpful in our future discussions if there is any.

Your subtle insults is almost comical and it is almost like reading the book, Dr. Seuss' How the Grinch Stole Christmas. However, ryantss is right, this topic clearly is out of control but funny at same time.

Before you can spin my words any further... I have been tolerating your comical & subtle insults and 'hidden message' in your comments which I can read the lines between these ever since. I actually had lots of chuckles when I read your early posts in this topic. You kept claiming that I have no ability to tolerate. Actually I believe you were trying to giving me a hint that you were speaking of yourself? In any case, your sorely poor attempts only has been backfired. I had been providing nothing but hard facts -- which I guess that makes you tense as hell -- based on your comments, you seemingly rather to have me not to post these hard facts, even if it isn't offtopic in any case. So, contact the mods to remove my posts and I give you my permission to remove mine to make this topic one-sided. Oh yes, it is almost hilarious that you kept told me that you tend to represent the opposite side to balance any topic out... but yet when I did it in your post and you said nothing but comical or subtle insults. Interesting. I reviewed my posts recently and so far, I haven't provoke you (as in directly at you unlike you) or your posts (In my early posts, I was talking about these articles by Extreme Rightists, not your posts at all. And heck, I praised you few times in my posts!). I merely stated the facts that 'your' links are Extreme Rightist-bias or repeat what 'my' articles said. Or you prefer me to not check the sources? ah, ok I got it sir. But after all, I am only a perfect reflection that stares back at you when you look at the mirror.

I believe I leave no stone in my wake for you or anyone to spin or turn (but of course, some people may love to jump the gun as usual... Hey, I sense something... The Crab Theory is strong in whoever you are ;)). I will be gone on Tuesday morning for some kind of field trip for a week. In other words, you are welcome to spew out the subtle/comical insults toward me more if you want to... whatever that will make you feel better. I no longer will bother you or anyone in this topic any further.. I mean, your subtle insults get tiring and old. I believe this topic will be my last political discussion to post around here, AD. I found my love at Political Community and will post the political discussions there as much as I'd like to. Be merry, conservatives :) but one less liberal for you to spew the insults (both subtle and comical) and such at :(

Keep in your mind that you are my hero for opening my eyes about these Right-wings in Sweden. I am infinitely indebted to you. I have been wondering about the problems in Sweden until this topic: Right-wings. It was quite shocked. Anyway... indeed, have a nice week ;)
 
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I reread all of your posts on this topic about Sweden. Ignoring your insults and accusations, I did not find you addressing the salient points of the stories I posted. Maybe it was difficult to read or something.

1. Why the socialist states of CUba, China, North Korea, former USSR, Africa, Latin South and Central America, and Asia are dismal to their citizens.

2. Sweden has a State supported (sponsored, official) religion.

3. Sweden has a 54% unmarried pregnacy rate.

4. Swedish sterilization programs (eugenics) under the ruling social democrats.

5. Swedes themselves voted the socialists out of power after 56% of the GNP went to taxes for welfare.

6. Low educational scores of students under socialist ideals.

7. Drug addicts and alcoholics draw government subsidy payments.

8. Sweden has a 25% unemployment rate.

9. The Swedish standard of living is declining significantly.

10. The GDP has been declining for decades.

11. Taxes absorb 1/2 of the average income.

12. The system is not friendly to small buisiness entrepeneurs.

13. Swedish industrial production has dropped 15% since 1989.

14. The kronor (currency) has devalued faster than the U.S. dollar.

15. Sweden's healthcare system has become a national scandle.

16. Most households have no savings.

17. Swedish banks collapsed.

18. Capitol gains tax is 30%


Perhaps it will be easier to respond to these points this way one at a time instead of a broad attack on worldwide neonazis which were not mentioned in any way and have no bearing on the subject I was addressing.

If these are not facts, then I trust you have the intellegence and resources to refute them each without enlisting the aid of some unidentified "professor" and a website of socialists, or resorting to personal comments and obfuscation.
 
Magatsu said:
.... these Right-wings tend to 'spam' or repeatedly themselves with these terms that you used in their articles...
Of course, Left-wingers don't do that. Left-wingers never spam or repeat themselves. :dizzy:
 
Reba said:
Of course, Left-wingers don't do that. Left-wingers never spam or repeat themselves. :dizzy:
Whoa, you took the context out of my sentence. Tsk. Tsk. Reread my certain sentence in my previous post: (also included Liberals/Leftists) :dizzy:

I am blunt enough to admit that both parties have the problem. But I am wondering, do you?

Codger's recent comment toward Liebling in other topic said everything about him. That's where I take my leave out of this topic and I rest my case.
 
15. Sweden's healthcare system has become a national scandle.

Care to explain that? I thought Sweden's health care is the best in the world. It is free for everyone. America's health care costs has skyrocketed and we have to pay about 1/10 of our income or more for health care. :(
 
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