CoolieFroggie
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I work for home group and I strong disagree that they shouldn't take tube feeding away from her, It's insane!! Terri derserve a life not the die... I know it's a suffer but that way i look at Terri don't look a suffer in the pain.. she just so happy and let it her be.. I don't see any perfect around the world..
^Angel^ said:It's not???...So, it's ok for someone in a death row to die quickly, it's ok for a pet to put to sleep quickly, but it's not cruel or painful to slowly starve someone to death for days? or weeks?....I see...
ive been lurking in this thread since my last post i admit
but i had to jump in to say something -- i can see where u are coming from Angel -- in this case i do not see how Terri *is* suffering due to her brain already "mush" -- u have mentioned abt legally euthanasizing our furbabies which is widely acceptable -- i always have had this opinion of legalizing euthanasia for humans for a LONG time in extreme cases where there is NO hope of recovery -- granted im aware that the USA doesnt allow it (at least not yet) but another country allows it i believe its in Norway (Liza -- if i am inaccurate -- correct me PLEASE!) in the MOST extreme cases where there is *absolutely* no hope of recovery after all avenues has been taken and unsuccessful
IMHO i do not believe a person should be forced to endure being in a vegetative state for years and years and years -- when Terri departs this life, her soul would be set free
T
Toonces
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Cheri said:LOL. I guess you can read my face expression behind the screen.Exactly what I was doing rolling my eyes and saying "whatever" heh.
javapride
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exactly my point... thanks fly u said it really clearly! when soemone's in such a serious brain damaged and drs say no hope of recovering then let terri go. let her meet her maker. and let her live in peace. we shouldn't have to endure such a thing when it comes to this kind of issue... that should have ended when she had that happened to her what 9 yrs ago? ( correct me if i am wronh im seeing 2 different yrs on this... ) she should have been let go from the get go... and no one should have to suffer and be all flaxen and in a chair and bed with bed sores, thinning hair. barely moving my head. im sorry i just can't see myself in this postion i rather have them pull the plug and let me go... i do not want to endure the pains and heartache if im sitting in that chair for yrs. sorry... its time for terri to go and im praying for her speedy peaceful end so she can go home to god...
Fly Free said:ive been lurking in this thread since my last post i admit
i can see where u are coming from Angel -- in this case i do not see how Terri *is* suffering due to her brain already "mush" -- u have mentioned abt legally euthanasizing our furbabies which is widely acceptable -- i always have had this opinion of legalizing euthanasia for humans for a LONG time in extreme cases where there is NO hope of recovery -- granted im aware that the USA doesnt allow it (at least not yet) but another country allows it i believe its in Norway (Liza -- if i am inaccurate -- correct me PLEASE!) in the MOST extreme cases where there is *absolutely* no hope of recovery after all avenues has been taken and unsuccessful
IMHO i do not believe a person should be forced to endure being in a vegetative state for years and years and years -- when Terri departs this life, her soul would be set free
That what some people believe is that they think she is not suffering, or in pain, but no one knows really unless they are in her shoes, I've never been in the same condition as Terri is in, and if I ever was or will be, I will not allow anyone to slowly starve me to death, I rather to die quickly and rest in peace....Not waiting to die for days and weeks without food and water << that's just a cruel act of murder...I'm sorry FlyFree
And another thing, just because she has a brain damage, it doesn't mean it's ok to starve a person to death....That just don't sound right to me....and I wouldn't allow anyone to go thru like Terri is now....and she is still alive , well bearly....: sigh:
Liza
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Fly Free said:ive been lurking in this thread since my last post i admit
i can see where u are coming from Angel -- in this case i do not see how Terri *is* suffering due to her brain already "mush" -- u have mentioned abt legally euthanasizing our furbabies which is widely acceptable -- i always have had this opinion of legalizing euthanasia for humans for a LONG time in extreme cases where there is NO hope of recovery -- granted im aware that the USA doesnt allow it (at least not yet) but another country allows it i believe its in Norway (Liza -- if i am inaccurate -- correct me PLEASE!) in the MOST extreme cases where there is *absolutely* no hope of recovery after all avenues has been taken and unsuccessful
IMHO i do not believe a person should be forced to endure being in a vegetative state for years and years and years -- when Terri departs this life, her soul would be set free
Sorry, Flyfree, I don't have that information... should I come across to it, I will post in this thread. I'll keep that in mind!
I would not want to be in a vegetative state for years and years... like Terri, but I hesitate from commenting freely on life or death for Terri since I don't know what she wanted.... but I can share freely what I think about how others treated this situation.... I do think it's despicable the way her husband seems to behave as far as I understand it, it sounds to me a lot of people in an influential position want to help Terri have been cowed by the husband. Letting a helpless human being starve to death sounds quite cruel. Human euthanasia (after all other options have been exhausted) without the pains of slowly failing organs sounds more kinder. It is a very heartwrenching situation for all, I'm sure.
Right, you don't know. I don't know. But the court made its best judgement and it ruled that Terri would probably be best not be fed by tube. In order to die, you must starve. Doctors are not allowed to give drugs to kill you although you can do it yourself but if you're paralyzed, you're stuck with only one way to die - death by starvation.
Before you make blanket statements about death by starvation, read this article:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05083/476836.stm
Starving isn't such a painful death
""The word 'starve' is so emotionally loaded," Fine said. "People equate that with the hunger pains they feel or the thirst they feel after a long, hot day of hiking. To jump from that to a person who has an end-stage illness is a gigantic leap.
Contrary to the visceral fears of humans, death by starvation is the norm in nature -- and the body is prepared for it."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58175-2005Mar22.html
I have seen MY OWN FATHER DIE BY STARVATION and his death was relatively peaceful - far better than before he started the starvation. Granted, he was terminally ill and Terri wasn't - she's diagnosed to have PVS, I doubt she'll experience much pain either. Even if she's "minimally conscious," she won't experience much pain either because when you're not conscious, you're not truly aware of it and when you're minimally conscious, your awareness is very diminished therefore perception of pain is minimal.
-jeff
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Liza
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netrox said:
I see nothing wrong about the points you are trying to make, Jeff.. nor Cheri's, either. In fact, I wanted to share with you that is an unfair use of the word compassion... I can see that you and Cheri have a quite different understanding of what compassion is, according to each of your integrity. Nothing wrong with that, but I disagree with the way you have put down Cheri's ideas as they are less valid than yours are.
We all have integrity that determines how we feel about something... it also helps us formulate our own ideas of how things work. It is totally pointless putting another down.. why can't we all just get along, even with different ideas?
The other avenue is to argue about this furiously as an attempt to make others wrong and you the right one until we're blue in the face.. which is also pointless, right?Know what? This is an opportunity to celebrate ourselves that we are able to think about stuff like Terri's tragedy, no matter what our ideas may be.
netrox said:
"Best judgment" to murder someone by starving you call that the best judgment? There isn't one way to die, There are other options too, like an injection, That is painless, but they choose starving and dehydrating a person to death is a slow and excruciating death. How come worst criminals who put on death row doesn't die by starving, but they get the easy way out; painless death with injection. Something wrong with the whole picture here, That is hearsay. You know what I think? I think It is really disgusting for the courts to just take everything for granted what Michael claims. The court went blind side. And that's a shame.
Liza said:
Thank-you for your kind words Liza
Cheri said:"Best judgment" to murder someone by starving you call that the best judgment? There isn't one way to die, There are other options too, like an injection, That is painless, but they choose starving and dehydrating a person to death is a slow and excruciating death. How come worst criminals who put on death row doesn't die by starving, but they get the easy way out; painless death with injection. Something wrong with the whole picture here, That is hearsay. You know what I think? I think It is really disgusting for the courts to just take everything for granted what Michael claims. The court went blind side. And that's a shame.
First, it is ILLEGAL to overdose a dying patient! You CANNOT seriously expect a court to say, "ok, kill her with a lethal dose." It doesn't work. It is ILLEGAL even for a dying patient!
Second, starvation is the ONLY way to die for many people. I don't know why you don't seem to understand what I am trying to say. If you have a terminal illness like cancer, you will DIE from starvation - it's inevitable. You won't eat. You won't drink. Is it painful? Not as painful as you make it sound like it is. I have seen dying patients who haven't eaten nor drank and they were fine witout food or water for many days even tho I was shocked at their appearance. Did they cry for food or water? No. That's why I am alarmed to read "PAINFUL DEATH BY STARVATION - CRUEL!!!" They obviously have no experience with dying patients.
My father's only complaint was dry mouth and we put some little water in his mouth to make it wet but no food or water. I am sure he felt some pain but he doesn't seem to really mind and he went into semi-coma stage for a week before his death.
Third, a comparison of Terri and criminals is just an emotional appeal argument with no substance at all - it has nothing to do with her innocence or guilt. It's about her wish being fulfilled. I suspect she would rather die (and polls consistently find that most people don't want to be a vegetable and would rather die). You don't know what Terri wished so the court had no choice but to follow the law - a spouse has the right to make decisions if the other spouse is incompetent.
If Michael turns out to be a murderer (meaning that he lied about her wish) then he deserves to be punished but so far, there's no evidence that shows he was doing it out of malice. The courts found him to be a good husband. Yes, they said that.
-jeff
Liza said:
You're right - Cheri and I have different ideas of what compassoin is but Cheri keeps degrading him saying that he is evil and all that but I see that he could be just trying to honor his wife's wish and the only way to honor her wish is to stay her husband. I could see that he tried to rehabilitate her and failed. Considering his job in medical field, he obviously knows that if it doesn't work after a year, the odds of recovery is very slim. Terri is in PVS meaning that she is NOT aware of things around her so what can Michael do - force him to sit by her and not have a relationship or children for 15 years? No way. I think women who expects their men (or visa versa) to be like that are totally unrealistic.
-jeff
ravensteve1961
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When Terri dies i think the protesters should begin a hunger strike until those judges resign. And when those protesters die the whole world would be angry at the united states. This is called public pressure and when the judge is under public pressure someone will step in ether fire the judge or force him to resign just like the mayor of miami has to fire the police chief because he didnt inform the mayor when the feds were gonna take elian gonalez away. So every cuban american who own shops closed them down in memory of elian. And the mayor knows the city cant make money with business the contribues sales tax for revinue. So the mayor fired the police chief to satisfied the cuban community. Thats called public pressure. And the judge in tampa who let the sex preditor go killed a 14 year old girl had a lot of death threats and jeb bush forced the judge to resign and take retirement for his own safety.Thats called public pressure. So i think those who took a stand for Terri Schiavo cause and she dies they should all go on a hungar strike until those judges resign.
ravensteve1961 said:
And you call yourself Mr Reality? The majority of people agree with the courts and you expect public pressure? I don't think so. If they want to go on hunger strike, they can but they're not going to impress anyone but loonies.
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Kate Adamson share her story
Please, read Kate Adamson's story. She was in Terri's condition at the age of 33 and how Kate came out of it successfully.
I am sure it will inspire to some of you. Here's the link to tell Kate's story:
Kate Adamson
http://www.katesjourney.com/
Hope it helps to some of you to understand Terri's condition better.
Please, read Kate Adamson's story. She was in Terri's condition at the age of 33 and how Kate came out of it successfully.
I am sure it will inspire to some of you. Here's the link to tell Kate's story:
Kate Adamson
http://www.katesjourney.com/
Hope it helps to some of you to understand Terri's condition better.
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That is not "forcing" him; of his own free will he made the marriage vow to stay faithful to his wife "in sickness and in health". People are expected to keep their promises.netrox said:
Why do you say that? Spouses do that every day. I know many husbands who wives have long-term terminal diseases and disabilities, and they remain faithful. How is that unrealistic? Are men just animals with no self-control?
I guess I (and many other people) have a higher opinion of and expectation of people than you do.
netrox said:
Well; to be honest I am not the only one who thinks Michael is the evil one, There are people out there are angry as much as I am about the result of the judge's ordered, and How Michael's action isn't real. His so-call love for his wife is fake.
Also Someone tried to hire someone to kill Michael and the judge already,
netrox said:
At least your father could get some water, but Terri cannot, His mother tried to give her ice cubes and she wasn't allow to do so, even other people tried to seek in the hospital to give her water and they got arrested, for what? For having a good heart and for caring for Terri? Is that a crime? Wow people can be so cruel. Now Terri's mouth, and eyes are bleeding her skin are flaking. And you think that painless death to you? Whatever.
netrox said:
Hummmm.... My Grandfather and My son's grandma both died from cancer and they did not starved.
netrox said:
Well; it is illegal to kill anyways, But the court is killing her by starving her. She is not dying from natural causes she dying because there is an order to "kill" her against her wishes. Did you hear Terri says "Starve me; pull my feeding tube".
