Feelings on how a Deaf child should be taught
- Thread starter Celticty
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Originally posted by FJ -
FJ - Children experience/learn/share through play therapy with various types professionals. Are you indicating here that if your child was in need of any type of play therapy sessions, that you would not have her/him participate in "adult lead and not in a normal, natural setting?"
FJ - Children experience/learn/share through play therapy with various types professionals. Are you indicating here that if your child was in need of any type of play therapy sessions, that you would not have her/him participate in "adult lead and not in a normal, natural setting?"
rick48
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Maybe I am mising something but you previously stated that you are hearing and that your child was born hearing but that she just picked up ASL from exposure to it. How was she exposed to it? In what kind of setting(s)? How did you and your husband learn ASL after she became deaf? At what age did she become deaf? Are you saying that she has never had any formalized training and/or therapy in ASL?
It is my understanding that deaf children of hearing parents who do not know sign are usually placed into some kind of formal or structured program and/or therapy so that they can be taught ASL from fluent signers which their parents are not. Thus, they usually are engaged in similar number of hours of language therapy as kids in an oral program.
Rick
deafbajagal
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It doesn't matter if the child has hearing aids, CIs, or whatever. It doesn't matter what communicate mode has been chosen for the child...and it doesn't matter what language the child learns first (or at the same time as another). What matters is the child has a hearing loss. This child is going to need lots and lots of language therapy. Even children with mild hearing loss needs language therapy. 27/7...isn't enough. What matters is that the parent(s) who know their child better than anyone else (we hope anyway) has been given the full set of options by a professional who is not biased and will be supportive of the parent's decision. What matters is that there is consistency with what the child needs in order to benefit most.
A lot of hearing parents want their child to hear as much as possible, have the best possible speech, and be intergrated into the world which mostly inhabits hearing and speaking folks. It is understandable because this is the view of their "norm." Deaf folks like myself have a different "norm". I don't see speech and even hearing a necessity to be successful in life. I want full access to the world...and no matter how hard I try to have perfect speech or to hear with one of the best digital hearing aids in the world, I can never be fully intergrated in the world of hearing and speaking people. An example comes to mind. In all of those years at the family dinner table, I never ever fully understood what was going on. Last year I had Thanksgiving dinner with deaf friends who conversed in ASL. I had to excused myself...and cried in the bathroom because I realized it was the first time I understood and enjoy Thanksgiving. This is my "norm." Experiences such as this one is what made me the person who feels the passion to work with deaf children and their parents. My "norm" and perspective is difficult to relate to or to understand when you're not in deaf shoes.
Let's get this out in the opening...the ugly truth is the deaf community is not an open community. It is very closed to members...even I had a hard time joining in simply because I didn't grow up signing the whole time. There can be a long, winded discussions of the implications of why the community is so close-knit, but that's another topic. Bottom line is...how can we as deaf people judge parents when we don't always open our arms to them? How can we dare reject people...especially after many of us face rejection again and again? It is time we stop saying that our way is the only way and start being supportive to all people regardless if they have a CI, HA, big deaf family, uses ASL, uses SEE, etc. Those things don't matter. A community of people joined together to explore the best decisions for each child and to support one another...that is what matters.
A lot of hearing parents want their child to hear as much as possible, have the best possible speech, and be intergrated into the world which mostly inhabits hearing and speaking folks. It is understandable because this is the view of their "norm." Deaf folks like myself have a different "norm". I don't see speech and even hearing a necessity to be successful in life. I want full access to the world...and no matter how hard I try to have perfect speech or to hear with one of the best digital hearing aids in the world, I can never be fully intergrated in the world of hearing and speaking people. An example comes to mind. In all of those years at the family dinner table, I never ever fully understood what was going on. Last year I had Thanksgiving dinner with deaf friends who conversed in ASL. I had to excused myself...and cried in the bathroom because I realized it was the first time I understood and enjoy Thanksgiving. This is my "norm." Experiences such as this one is what made me the person who feels the passion to work with deaf children and their parents. My "norm" and perspective is difficult to relate to or to understand when you're not in deaf shoes.
Let's get this out in the opening...the ugly truth is the deaf community is not an open community. It is very closed to members...even I had a hard time joining in simply because I didn't grow up signing the whole time. There can be a long, winded discussions of the implications of why the community is so close-knit, but that's another topic. Bottom line is...how can we as deaf people judge parents when we don't always open our arms to them? How can we dare reject people...especially after many of us face rejection again and again? It is time we stop saying that our way is the only way and start being supportive to all people regardless if they have a CI, HA, big deaf family, uses ASL, uses SEE, etc. Those things don't matter. A community of people joined together to explore the best decisions for each child and to support one another...that is what matters.
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Yep, that's my norm too! Being able to speak and be fully integrated in the hearing world growing up didnt do me much justice. I was constantly looked down, ignored, disregarded, left out, and treated differently so the point of making me "normal" was completely moot. Not only that but in the classroom, I had to constantly keep my head above water trying to follow what was happening in the classroom. I am sure I missed out on a lot of learning. Instead, I learned from reading...not much of an education. Deaf children need to learn from their peers through discussions in the classroom so how can they do that if they dont have full access to the language?
Yes, I know that feeling about discovering what is your norm. My first day was my first day of classes at Gallaudet University. For the first time in my life, a classroom full of people used a language that was fully accessible to me and I had complete full direct access to everything that is being said in the classroom from the professors to the other students. Later that day, it hit me hard on how much I was denied growing up by the strictly-oral only approach. I went through an anger for a long time after that. I rebelled against my parents, my old teachers, and my old hearing friends. I needed to sort out my feelings cuz it was a huge huge wake-up call for me to how isolating my life was growing up when it shouldnt have been in the first place. All because of AGBell and the oralists brainwashing my mom into believing that by putting me in an environment like that, I would be "normal".
Great posting!
faire_jour
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My daughter started to lose her hearing after she turned 1. I would guess around 15 months. We confirmed she had a moderate loss at 18 months. She has continued to lose her hearing, and now she is offically deaf.
We had been using "baby signs" with her since she was 8 months or so. She picked them up very easily. We would watch "Signing Time" and then just use the signs we knew with our words. When we found her loss the EI person started coming to our home and teaching us more ASL. We continued to incorporate it into our daily lives. Just before she turned 2 we took 2 Deaf community ASL classes. Again, we just signed with our words. Katrina was getting "play therapy" from our EI people for speech as well. She would play their games and if they spoke a word she would sign it back. She would sometimes parrot their sounds but she wasn't picking it up. She has failed to meet every single IEP or IFSP speech goal she ever had. She picks up new signs everyday, from us, from friends, from church, even from TV. We have never had to sit down and show her a picture and then sign "dog", like they do in her speech classes.
She uses her voice (mostly for jabbering and sound affects) and maybe someday she will speak, but that is not our focus. Our focus is the ability to communicate. She was able to request a cookie when she was 18 months (BEFORE we found her hearing loss) only because of ASL. We never lost the ability to teach her rules or for her to tell us that she didn't like the taste of potatoe soup BECAUSE of ASL. Maybe your child didn't have the gaps in communication but SO many orally educated children do. They go years without the ability to communicate at all and that is NOT ok. And that is the reason I advocate ASL for ALL children with a hearing loss.
Oh, and in our local TC classes, they use ASL signs in English word order while speaking English, not SEE. So I guess it depends where you are from...though our school just mereged our TC class with Bi-Bi so it doesn't even apply here anymore.
Also wanted to say, that I believe our local Deaf community is very open. I know Deaf adults with CI's, those who speak and sign at the same time, those who live voice-off. They welcome hearing parents and kids with CI's all the time. The only requirement to be welcomed in our community is show up! If you come, you will be welcomed and they will try to figure out how to talk to you...even if it is just the old fashioned paper and pencil. I know it is different in other areas, and for that I am sad. I just wanted to leave my .02 and say that I am thankful for the people who are around us.
We had been using "baby signs" with her since she was 8 months or so. She picked them up very easily. We would watch "Signing Time" and then just use the signs we knew with our words. When we found her loss the EI person started coming to our home and teaching us more ASL. We continued to incorporate it into our daily lives. Just before she turned 2 we took 2 Deaf community ASL classes. Again, we just signed with our words. Katrina was getting "play therapy" from our EI people for speech as well. She would play their games and if they spoke a word she would sign it back. She would sometimes parrot their sounds but she wasn't picking it up. She has failed to meet every single IEP or IFSP speech goal she ever had. She picks up new signs everyday, from us, from friends, from church, even from TV. We have never had to sit down and show her a picture and then sign "dog", like they do in her speech classes.
She uses her voice (mostly for jabbering and sound affects) and maybe someday she will speak, but that is not our focus. Our focus is the ability to communicate. She was able to request a cookie when she was 18 months (BEFORE we found her hearing loss) only because of ASL. We never lost the ability to teach her rules or for her to tell us that she didn't like the taste of potatoe soup BECAUSE of ASL. Maybe your child didn't have the gaps in communication but SO many orally educated children do. They go years without the ability to communicate at all and that is NOT ok. And that is the reason I advocate ASL for ALL children with a hearing loss.
Oh, and in our local TC classes, they use ASL signs in English word order while speaking English, not SEE. So I guess it depends where you are from...though our school just mereged our TC class with Bi-Bi so it doesn't even apply here anymore.
Also wanted to say, that I believe our local Deaf community is very open. I know Deaf adults with CI's, those who speak and sign at the same time, those who live voice-off. They welcome hearing parents and kids with CI's all the time. The only requirement to be welcomed in our community is show up! If you come, you will be welcomed and they will try to figure out how to talk to you...even if it is just the old fashioned paper and pencil. I know it is different in other areas, and for that I am sad. I just wanted to leave my .02 and say that I am thankful for the people who are around us.
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I am glad that your experience was postive. Jillo's experience with the Deaf community was postive as well. That's why some parents cant just let a few bad apples turn them away from the Deaf community. Not everyone in the Deaf community is like that.
I said Deaf community not NAD. The Deaf clubs.
Me with you every step of the way......that could happens only in your dreams. I certainly don't need the help of someone who couldn't spell.
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Lol!
deafbajagal
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Oh, and in our local TC classes, they use ASL signs in English word order while speaking English, not SEE. So I guess it depends where you are from...though our school just mereged our TC class with Bi-Bi so it doesn't even apply here anymore.[/QUOTE]
Actually, if they are using English syntax with voicing, then it is linguistically impossible that they are using ASL. They are more likely using Signed English or CASE (Conceptually Signed English)...possibly thrown in with PSE (mixed English Sign Language and ASL). If you're using ASL, it is impossible to use your voice and to use it in English order...just fyi...
Actually, if they are using English syntax with voicing, then it is linguistically impossible that they are using ASL. They are more likely using Signed English or CASE (Conceptually Signed English)...possibly thrown in with PSE (mixed English Sign Language and ASL). If you're using ASL, it is impossible to use your voice and to use it in English order...just fyi...
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Actually, if they are using English syntax with voicing, then it is linguistically impossible that they are using ASL. They are more likely using Signed English or CASE (Conceptually Signed English)...possibly thrown in with PSE (mixed English Sign Language and ASL). If you're using ASL, it is impossible to use your voice and to use it in English order...just fyi...[/QUOTE]
Right..many people do not understand this. To keep both languages in their correct syntax, they must be kept separate.
rick48
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Someone who can't spell. Believe me, you are not in my dreams.
rick48
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Not your measure of success? Whose then? Alexander Graham Bell's??? And you just follow him.
I support Bi-Bi method. See... I am not against being able to speak. I just don't like CI because one death is too many and the doctors tend to tell the parents not to use ASL when the child is implanted.
My measure of success is education. I'd rather see a child doing well education-wise with fair speech than a child doing poorly education-wise but has a perfect speech. I want ASL in classrooms so the deaf child doesn't miss anything.
You know of Braidwood in England that is pro-oral? I found this link for year 2006 (Braidwood School for The Deaf) and none of the students pass levels 5 or 6 in English. That is failure - big time.
sarcasam?
defintely?
direrected?
All these words came from your post. Can anybody tell me how these words ought to be spelled???
sarcasam?
defintely?
direrected?
All these words came from your post. Can anybody tell me how these words ought to be spelled???
*Hand up* ... "I do, I do!"
sarcasm
definitely
directed
:P
rick48
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Following Mr. Bell, please give it a rest. Can't you think of anything new or original.
Yes, you got me, I did not spell those words correctly, I will have to remember to use spell check or to have a dictionary handy when the spelling police are around.
Glad you know what your measure of success is, when you have a deaf child then you can apply it to your child.
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deafbajagal
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Got to hand it to Rick for standing behind his beliefs in what is best for his child. I wish all of my parents of my students had that passion and determination.