Drug/Alcohol Addiction a Disease or a Choice?

caz12 said:
an idea which I be shot down for,legalise it or decrimalize it, Have proper clinics pay nominal amount money to tax stop .Crime down prison empty as it be monitored health problems down....we stop moralizing and let people find own way to calvery
tHIS only with drugs not alcohol

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i agree wholly with you, it would impact on crimes associated with drug use and prices of course, drugs plummet, also although it would still be a bit of a curiosity thing BUT at a much lesser scale,P that said, i would be more understood, 'druggies' would be more understood as people not as fiends of such wise like a "criminal zombie" - hell i wonder t times whats the layered story (like political undertone) or as you say a moral undertone that engages to gullible public to practice more judgmental tendency onto some people who might be a little different or a bit half-dead to the world from their consciousness of first-worldly affluent happy go lucky rich people who likes to think they are god's gift....while little they know even "successful " or rich get bored starts to look elsewhere for satisfaction, b/c it being illegal thy get doomed real bad too, just look at the late Phillip Seymour Hoffman the world-class actor...he was a Junkie
but again he was famous a d ppl like him.....this kind of muddled ppl up like "pity he died when didnt other nameless junkie died insyead of him?' sort of denial goes on WHilW the MEDIA playes on this too , ofc rules abound by privacy, and such and sych..
hmmm
legalise heroin go for it, it might help aghanistan a bit but in long run they'd also gather its not a good market....it will die out too.........
...
just my take...

so nah Caz you're not getting shot for it at least not from me...
I AGREE~!!
 
it would mean they will get treatment better and faster and i think they'd mpore likely to come forward for help so less OD or gang related deaths would occur...
 
sonocativo said:
For some reason I can not for the life of me figure out or reason why someone gets addicted to drugs? I take some really stron pain meds for my spinal issues and I only take them when the pain is unbearable, I dont want them, I dont take them regularly as prescribed, I just take them when I am so uncomfortable and miserablely in pain for relief. At first I took them like I worshipped them when after my surgery the pain was so unbearable, I would take them at 3-1/2 hours instead of 4 just so the meds stayed in effect and keep the pain at bay, then as the pain got more bearable I lessened my dosage, I can go days, sometimes a week without them, but when I cant get comfortable or sleep, and still after taking them I sometimes cant sleep, but I have never developed a "need" or a "want" or "gotta have them or else" attitude like a drug addict. My doc was also switching me between 2 meds as he didnt want me to develop an addiction to them but I never have, I always ended up with extras by the refill dates.
So drug addiction is a mental state made by choice, I guess from depression or stress or whatever reason... not a disease as people try to instill into the public minds, just another excuse to take taxpayers money to help them when they dont want help?
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This is what I have gathered from my years in college ( Classes I have had to take on drug addiction to be certified as an APA ) Speaking with drug addicts working as an APA in a hospital and having friends who of course work with drug addicts. People who get addicted to pain killers ( Since this is what you brought up ) start off taking them for pain just as you do. They may have had back pain such as you. It may have been terrible pain for an operation, chronic pain or just temporary pain. Either way, the person was feeling this pain. When they take that pain killer, the pain goes away. The person is then so afraid that the pain will return, they take another, and another to make sure the pain will not come back. They are so afraid of that pain returning, that they keep taking them. Eventually before they know it, they're hooked on them. We build up a tolerance to pain killers INCREDIBLY fast... They don't last and work forever... so you take more and more to increase the MGs of the dose... bam, you're hooked. If you only take them when you genuinely NEED them for pain... you have nothing to worry about... Nothing. Keep taking them because you're scared of a little pain returning... you very well could become addicted to them, yes. Pain killers especially opiates trigger a pleasure sensor in our brains which makes them easier to get addicted to, as well. ( referring to pain killers ) Other drugs also fall into that category, obviously. Our brains are very complicated intense tools but are easily influenced by drugs. This is why every 6 months ( In the state of Florida with the hospital I work for ) I have to go to a stupid training to be updated on prescription procedures and policies to assure that we are all on the same page with all of this. They have definitely tightened the noose with pain killer scripts and it WILL be getting tighter... Expect that. It all falls onto the physicians decision, but we definitely have guidelines... and they're much tighter than ever before. They're saying within the next couple of years hand written scripts will be completely gone... right now they're few and far between but some do exist out there... but they're trying to nix them out completely... for good reason, of course.
 
horus11B said:
This isn't true... it's currently cheaper to buy non legal pot in Colorado right now than it is to go to a dispensary. The government is taxing the cap out of the legal stuff.


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Yeah , I saw that on the news that Colorado is making killing on this. It's really a bummer that government has taken over the selling of pot. I heard Colorado crime rate has done down too on the news .
 
horus11B said:
This isn't true... it's currently cheaper to buy non legal pot in Colorado right now than it is to go to a dispensary. The government is taxing the cap out of the legal stuff.


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What is the street value vs the legal price?
 
horus11B said:
This isn't true... it's currently cheaper to buy non legal pot in Colorado right now than it is to go to a dispensary. The government is taxing the cap out of the legal stuff.


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I would not be surprised when government taxes those stuff. I am curious how much did they taxes on one oz of marijuana. :hmm:
 
Mewtilation said:
This is what I have gathered from my years in college ( Classes I have had to take on drug addiction to be certified as an APA ) Speaking with drug addicts working as an APA in a hospital and having friends who of course work with drug addicts. People who get addicted to pain killers ( Since this is what you brought up ) start off taking them for pain just as you do. They may have had back pain such as you. It may have been terrible pain for an operation, chronic pain or just temporary pain. Either way, the person was feeling this pain. When they take that pain killer, the pain goes away. The person is then so afraid that the pain will return, they take another, and another to make sure the pain will not come back. They are so afraid of that pain returning, that they keep taking them. Eventually before they know it, they're hooked on them. We build up a tolerance to pain killers INCREDIBLY fast... They don't last and work forever... so you take more and more to increase the MGs of the dose... bam, you're hooked. If you only take them when you genuinely NEED them for pain... you have nothing to worry about... Nothing. Keep taking them because you're scared of a little pain returning... you very well could become addicted to them, yes. Pain killers especially opiates trigger a pleasure sensor in our brains which makes them easier to get addicted to, as well. ( referring to pain killers ) Other drugs also fall into that category, obviously. Our brains are very complicated intense tools but are easily influenced by drugs. This is why every 6 months ( In the state of Florida with the hospital I work for ) I have to go to a stupid training to be updated on prescription procedures and policies to assure that we are all on the same page with all of this. They have definitely tightened the noose with pain killer scripts and it WILL be getting tighter... Expect that. It all falls onto the physicians decision, but we definitely have guidelines... and they're much tighter than ever before. They're saying within the next couple of years hand written scripts will be completely gone... right now they're few and far between but some do exist out there... but they're trying to nix them out completely... for good reason, of course.
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My ex brother ex wife got hooked of drugs when she pills to lose weigh in the 60's . She went a doctor that gave she some pills and she had an addicted personally and bad taste , she married my ex brother .
 
VacationGuy234 said:
What is the street value vs the legal price?
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Depends on kind and amount. I have a friend who live there who is saying red hair is going for 65 an oz on the street and 65 a gram in the dispensary. An oz is 28 grams.

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To be the devils advocate
I believe addicts has a degree of self control or it would be zombie end of the world thing with them being mindless violent human beings with no thought or reason. Blaming it on addiction isn't acceptable in my opinion if they can figure out how to buy the drug they can figure out how to make the money the honest way, its a flaw of some human beings just being purely lazy looking for free meal tickets out there or shortcuts. There are a lot addicts that work to feed their habits, why not other addicts do the same thing? It's not an excuse to steal, if they know how to stay out of trouble with the police until they're caught stealing as there's many other criminal behaviors they could have done and been caught for before the act of stealing if there truly was no self control. Enablers are just as bad as the addicts in my book.

On other side: it's purely driven by human need of survival.

For addiction itself, its a beast the person has to contend with. Some beasts are nasty, ruthless, cunning and cold hearted no ones beast is the same as each has to fight their own battle with their beast the best way they can to regain control of themselves. Its a hard battle the addict has to endure and to see easy grab things to quieten the beast by feeding its habit using least expanded energy they know how its by stealing objects to get that object they need to feed that beast. They are trying to survive the battle of fighting the beast. It's the human survival mode kicking in.


I got mixed feelings on this subject it's not a black and white area for me.
 
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horus11B said:
Depends on kind and amount. I have a friend who live there who is saying red hair is going for 65 an oz on the street and 65 a gram in the dispensary. An oz is 28 grams.

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:shock:
 
rockin'robin said:
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That's a good one. I started drinking alcohol in my junior year of high school so I could feel comfortable at parties with my hearing peers. Then I realized I was becoming too dependent on it so I didn't drink at all in my senior year until graduation night. After that, I only drank maybe 2 or 3 times a year. I was so happy that I recognized the signs and stopped.

That's why I don't believe it is a disease. Health problems occurring from alcohol or drug abuse are diseases, yes. But the decision to pick up a drink or to inhale chemicals is a choice.

People stealing stuff so they could get the booze or drugs are a menace to society.
 
Right.. I started to taste alcohol when i was 10 yrs old.. and then i started drinking more when i was 16. I did not drink very often, maybe couples of times in a month, the same amount of times during high school year. In college, a little more but not too much. Once I got out of school, and continue the same amount of drinking.. I dont believe it is a disease. I have witnessed several of my family and friends who drank heavily. They can stop when they want to but they chose to continue drinking becase they can't face their feelings in reality, and can't handle the emotion stuff that well. That's how it led them to drinking heavily not to think about the sad stuff. There is no such a disease for drinking or drugs PERIOD
 
sonocativo said:
That wouldnt work, take crack for example... there would be more killings/suicides if it was legal because it would become so freely available and cheap that other forms of making money would increase ( robberies, home invasions ) so there would be more cash flow from stolen goods since legalizing drugs would make them cheap as there would be no use to "hide" it and all the costs of transporting it as well.
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fair play...not thought of crack just heroin
 
Someone asked why some people get addicted and others don't. What I haven't seen much mention of is the situation people are in prior to getting addicted. Chemical addiction isn't the strongest thing influencing people to become addicts, it's their lives outside of the drugs. What social conditions lead people to want to stay in an altered consciousness? Poverty, depression, feeling you have no place in society, things like that. They are all types of social isolation. It explains generations of drug use in families that have generational poverty.

This comic explains very easily why happy fulfilled rats actually choose withdrawal symptoms over rats that are socially isolated, and they avoid the drugs in the first place as well when given a choice.

Rat Park drug experiment cartoon


This guy's follow up post summarizes the further research that this guy found about what makes people addicted.

The post-Rat Park research of Bruce Alexander - Stuart McMillen blog

I hope this gives some better explanation as to why people become addicted beyond the biological, and why people choose to try drugs they know are addictive (I'm speaking about those who try drugs outside of prescription drugs that were given by a doctor for pain or whatever).
 
Eater of Worlds said:
Someone asked why some people get addicted and others don't. What I haven't seen much mention of is the situation people are in prior to getting addicted. Chemical addiction isn't the strongest thing influencing people to become addicts, it's their lives outside of the drugs. What social conditions lead people to want to stay in an altered consciousness? Poverty, depression, feeling you have no place in society, things like that. They are all types of social isolation. It explains generations of drug use in families that have generational poverty.

This comic explains very easily why happy fulfilled rats actually choose withdrawal symptoms over rats that are socially isolated, and they avoid the drugs in the first place as well when given a choice.

Rat Park drug experiment cartoon


This guy's follow up post summarizes the further research that this guy found about what makes people addicted.

The post-Rat Park research of Bruce Alexander - Stuart McMillen blog

I hope this gives some better explanation as to why people become addicted beyond the biological, and why people choose to try drugs they know are addictive (I'm speaking about those who try drugs outside of prescription drugs that were given by a doctor for pain or whatever).
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ah, nice finally a nurture side of the equation in regard to addiction whereas it is overwhelmed by psychological or biological or chemical reductionism , finally! so i order the book , will read it with great interest.. thanks for this!!
 
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