Drug/Alcohol Addiction a Disease or a Choice?

Jabberwocky said:
So one cant call lung cancer a disease because the smoker made a choice to smoke?
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That's not what I said. Not even close.

Lung cancer is a disease. Smoking (addiction to tobacco/nicotine) is NOT a disease. Disease can be a consequence of choosing to smoke. Choosing to smoke is not a disease.

Its a behavior, people eat processed food knowing it might be a cause of colon cancer. We cant call colon cancer a disease because the person knew the chances of cancer would be there?

Thats what your saying.
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No, that's not what I said. Not at all. Please re-read what I posted.

Colon cancer is a disease. Making bad dietary choices is NOT a disease. Disease can be a consequence of bad dietary choices. Making bad dietary choices is not a disease.

Choices are not diseases. Diseases can be consequences of choices.
 
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See the problem I have with your logic is that you are putting all blame on the person for first taking a drink. By that logic, you should just ban alcohol altogether. And if we're following that logic you could extend it to cigarettes, processed foods, sex, sugar, masterbation and the internet... because anyone could be addicted to any of these things at any point in time. There are lots of people who drink smoke pot and do coke only socially and never have a problem with any kind of addictive behaviors. There are very few tangible precursors to addiction. Millions of people drink daily and have no problem. No one knows who its going to be until it is and they go off the rails. I fully believe in people accepting the consequences of their choices, but my devils advocate argument is can people be held accountable for that first drink when all empirical evidence shows that nothing bad or of lasting consequence will happen?

Also I have friends who suffer from ptsd. During an episode in which they can no longer distinguish between reality and memory, I have been punched, slapped, kicked, choked until I blacked out and stabbed. I have been shot at but not hit. Because of what they suffer, can they be held accountable for their actions? Does the fact they were in the military make the definition different somehow? In both cases you are dealing with an individual who has a mental disease. They are no longer able to distinguish reality from their perception.
 
This is a very borderline topic.... :hmm:

*Inhales deeply*

How do I put this...

I definitely don't have the empathy for a person who is addicted to drugs that I have for someone with a disease such as cancer or something along those lines... essentially because they do it to themselves. There are programs and usually ample amounts of programs out there to help people with drug related illnesses for free... They just have to want the help and want to help themselves. I can feel empathy for these people to a degree because addiction is something that you can not help. To be addicted to these drugs is something that they can not just up and walk away from, and they do need help. However, when they opt to not take that help and to keep spiraling down that road and keep doing what they're doing is when I lose all respect and everything. As I said, there are plenty of programs out there to help people with this out there, they just have to want to help themselves. I smoked cigarettes for a long time... they are addicting. Not to the degree of a drug like coke or others, but an addiction nonetheless. I couldn't just walk away from them. I never wanted to quit. I finally decided one day I wanted the help and I WANTED to quit. You have to want that for yourself with any addiction before anything is useful. Guess what, I no longer smoke. I had a friend addicted to oxy a few years ago. He went through a terrible path and down a terrible road. Eventually he finally wanted the help and he has been clean now for 3 years. It just takes wanting that help as I've stated. So I think that's my issue with not feeling bad for addicts like I do someone with a disease like cancer. They do it to themselves... They continue to do it to themselves and only they themselves can pull out of it... nobody else... but that's just my take. :dunno:
 
Bebonang said:
My husband was an alcoholic. He had been drinking alcohol and drugs since he was about 15 years old. That was awfully long time. He thought that every one drink alcohol and thought it was traditional. I kept telling my husband that it is not traditional in our Native tradition. We don't drink hard liquor like that. So he is not smart enough to know better not to drink alcohol or drugs. So alcohol can and does damage to the brain and to the body, too. Alcohol is poison to the person's health. He did not know how bad alcohol was. When he learned from his doctor that his liver is being disease with toxic. He would go into the trance, not knowing that he was seeing something invisible which was not real. The toxic in his liver made him see things not real.

Yeah, that could be a choice if a person is or was not aware of the poison of the alcohol to his body. I was upset and sad about his condition. I still miss him and wish that he would not have die if he stay sober all those years. He hurt himself more than me. I had to watch him destroy himself. That is terrible. You can call alcohol disease or poison, either way. :(
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Bebonang here a :hug: for you.
 
I so sorry Bebonang,you have seen the worse side and what you say may help educate and surpport others,you have put it into perspective
 
Its a choice....
Reason said is, people take it and like it and continue to take it and become addicted.
I love Beef jerky and will eat till I explode. I have been on numberous pain meds due to surgeries and injuries, yeah they make you feel good, but Ive never became addicted as I only take when extremely needed. My whole family were drinkers/smokers, I never liked the taste of alcohol and never drank and i never smoked as I cant stand the smell nor can I breath being around smokers.... its something someone tries and likes and indulges into it and becomes addicted, not a desease at all....its a choice they make then lose the battle to quit.
Im addicted severely to Pepsi and cannot quit drinking it, I drink maybe a case a week ( thats a 30 cube of cans) but in the summer it makes me sick so i drink more iced tea...lol
 
an idea which I be shot down for,legalise it or decrimalize it, Have proper clinics pay nominal amount money to tax stop .Crime down prison empty as it be monitored health problems down....we stop moralizing and let people find own way to calvery
tHIS only with drugs not alcohol

.
 
Mewtilation said:
This is a very borderline topic.... :hmm:

*Inhales deeply*

How do I put this...

I definitely don't have the empathy for a person who is addicted to drugs that I have for someone with a disease such as cancer or something along those lines... essentially because they do it to themselves. There are programs and usually ample amounts of programs out there to help people with drug related illnesses for free... They just have to want the help and want to help themselves. I can feel empathy for these people to a degree because addiction is something that you can not help. To be addicted to these drugs is something that they can not just up and walk away from, and they do need help. However, when they opt to not take that help and to keep spiraling down that road and keep doing what they're doing is when I lose all respect and everything. As I said, there are plenty of programs out there to help people with this out there, they just have to want to help themselves. I smoked cigarettes for a long time... they are addicting. Not to the degree of a drug like coke or others, but an addiction nonetheless. I couldn't just walk away from them. I never wanted to quit. I finally decided one day I wanted the help and I WANTED to quit. You have to want that for yourself with any addiction before anything is useful. Guess what, I no longer smoke. I had a friend addicted to oxy a few years ago. He went through a terrible path and down a terrible road. Eventually he finally wanted the help and he has been clean now for 3 years. It just takes wanting that help as I've stated. So I think that's my issue with not feeling bad for addicts like I do someone with a disease like cancer. They do it to themselves... They continue to do it to themselves and only they themselves can pull out of it... nobody else... but that's just my take. :dunno:
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For some reason I can not for the life of me figure out or reason why someone gets addicted to drugs? I take some really stron pain meds for my spinal issues and I only take them when the pain is unbearable, I dont want them, I dont take them regularly as prescribed, I just take them when I am so uncomfortable and miserablely in pain for relief. At first I took them like I worshipped them when after my surgery the pain was so unbearable, I would take them at 3-1/2 hours instead of 4 just so the meds stayed in effect and keep the pain at bay, then as the pain got more bearable I lessened my dosage, I can go days, sometimes a week without them, but when I cant get comfortable or sleep, and still after taking them I sometimes cant sleep, but I have never developed a "need" or a "want" or "gotta have them or else" attitude like a drug addict. My doc was also switching me between 2 meds as he didnt want me to develop an addiction to them but I never have, I always ended up with extras by the refill dates.
So drug addiction is a mental state made by choice, I guess from depression or stress or whatever reason... not a disease as people try to instill into the public minds, just another excuse to take taxpayers money to help them when they dont want help?
 
caz12 said:
an idea which I be shot down for,legalise it or decrimalize it, Have proper clinics pay nominal amount money to tax stop .Crime down prison empty as it be monitored health problems down....we stop moralizing and let people find own way to calvery
tHIS only with drugs not alcohol

.
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That wouldnt work, take crack for example... there would be more killings/suicides if it was legal because it would become so freely available and cheap that other forms of making money would increase ( robberies, home invasions ) so there would be more cash flow from stolen goods since legalizing drugs would make them cheap as there would be no use to "hide" it and all the costs of transporting it as well.
 
On the face of it-seems one must start taking "drugs/alcohol" which is a "choice". However the effect on one's body after Ingesting over an " extended period of Time" might/will have start the "process of addiction" At what level for who-specific to that person.

The dictionary definition- Disease- an unhealthy condition caused by infection or diet or by faulty functioning of a bodily process.
 
caz12 said:
reba cirrhosis of liver yes you can without booze but rare
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Correct. I was referring only to those cases where it was a result of drinking alcohol.
 
horus11B said:
See the problem I have with your logic is that you are putting all blame on the person for first taking a drink. By that logic, you should just ban alcohol altogether. And if we're following that logic you could extend it to cigarettes, processed foods, sex, sugar, masterbation and the internet... because anyone could be addicted to any of these things at any point in time.
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The, "first taking a drink" statement is incorrect. It tries to narrow the argument when, in fact, the argument is broad. You don't get addicted after one of anything. That is why there is more blame on the individual, because it takes longer than one of anything to get addicted. And, yes, we can and do extend it to those things as well.

There are lots of people who drink smoke pot and do coke only socially and never have a problem with any kind of addictive behaviors.
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Yes, this is why we don't ban those things. We ban people.

There are very few tangible precursors to addiction.
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Wrong. Ask any addict, they'll give you a long list of bad things that have happened. Those bad things are the precursors.

Also I have friends who suffer from ptsd. During an episode in which they can no longer distinguish between reality and memory, I have been punched, slapped, kicked, choked until I blacked out and stabbed. I have been shot at but not hit. Because of what they suffer, can they be held accountable for their actions? Does the fact they were in the military make the definition different somehow? In both cases you are dealing with an individual who has a mental disease. They are no longer able to distinguish reality from their perception.
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All those things are precursors to an eventual fate, if nothing is done.

I'm sorry those things have happened to you.
 
sonocativo said:
That wouldnt work, take crack for example... there would be more killings/suicides if it was legal because it would become so freely available and cheap that other forms of making money would increase ( robberies, home invasions ) so there would be more cash flow from stolen goods since legalizing drugs would make them cheap as there would be no use to "hide" it and all the costs of transporting it as well.
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This isn't true... it's currently cheaper to buy non legal pot in Colorado right now than it is to go to a dispensary. The government is taxing the cap out of the legal stuff.


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horus11B said:
This isn't true... it's currently cheaper to buy non legal pot in Colorado right now than it is to go to a dispensary. The government is taxing the cap out of the legal stuff.


Sent from my SCH-I545 using AllDeaf App mobile app
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and how many of those non legal crap causes issues.
even if made legal, it will still cause issues...
Hey drugs are legal, now lets get back to work on the bandsaw, saw mill, punch press, drawing blood, brain surgery...wait, what?
 
Taking the drug or drink is a choice, as is taking them until addiction. Being addicted is not a choice so much as a mental condition. One has to be willing to fight their own body and mind to break, and further still to stay off of. Also, let's not forget there are those that some people have addictive personalities, where it is not so much a habit choice, but happenstance that the person gets hooked onto something.
 
shel90 said:
The difference is these people don't steal, have sex for money, commit violence acts, and etc for their diseases.



People who get cancer because of bad choices become their own victims. People who are addicted to drugs and alcohol make innocent people become victims of their disease.



Then when they get caught for stealing or committing acts of violence, they say it is because they have a disease and cant help it. So my question is can they help it or not?
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You could say my husband's family & friends are victims of his poor food choices as they contributed to his death and we no longer have a person we love & who supported us with us.


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