District files appeal against deaf student

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Sweetmind said:
OpinionJournal - Leisure & Arts




See this article that I agree with them all . *****high ten****** .. NO matter what u think of me that I dont even care anymore since SELIFISH AUDIST ATTITUDE people screwed up Deaf Education as usual for many years with no ASL. Hearing people think they know everything before Deaf people know and tried to tell the truth how important for us to have American Sign Language before artifiicial languages. Why does Selfish Audiusm people TAKING Deaf children AWAY FROM our American Sign Language? That is what it pissed me off u do not understand what is communication all about for Deaf children s need FIRST before they can learn how to speak . The reason is that it helps deaf babies/toddler to understand the concept first before orally speaking.. I have nothing against oral therapy at all because it s good for them to learn how to lipread instead of listening those stupid sounds only.

Whats more It s the same concept of what I posted the" evidence of being deaf with Ha or Ci devices." If you want to read the original topic that I had in my file. Since they removed a lot of posts to cover up their buns. Sighs! YOU ARE D E A F NOT A HEARING PERSON SO BE IT. Any deaf children with or without no device who cannot hear everything so therefore we Deaf children of the Deaf community will be always deaf as is. NO one can deny it at all.

Why are all Deaf children who are born profoundly deaf or any type of deafness that they cannot hear everything who doesnt have their Deaf rights for many many years? Why is it still continuing problem in our Deaf Education? All I know AUDIST ATTITUDE people are refusing to see the true fact that we do need our hands to speak that we can understand it better and can process to understand and learn new things without having too much struggling or frustration by oral method only. And it s still lack of communication between Deaf and Hearing people in this society no matter what since hearing people doenst have any respect for Deaf people s rights or refuse to not learn ASL for us all along after all we did learn how to speak in speech therapy. Whats the use for us to have since Deaf rights is not out there yet to make it official instead of going to the court all the time that is not gonna to solve the problem. Scoffs!

WHERE ARE DEAF CHILDREN S RIGHTs? Some of you parents are very seflish and think they are always right all the time besides there are many of us deafies have explained it over and over all along but AUDIST ATTITUDE parents degraded Deaf people especially JILLO and SHEL90 who are very well educated people that I agreed with them in many ways of many topic. That tells me AUDIST ATTITUDE people think they are the expert of being deaf which it s NOT at all. They are making a huge mistake to force those kids to listen with devices and speak only .. Scoffs! I have no respect for those AUDIST attitude expecially Cloggy / Rick/ LMOL/ Boult/ and the rest of their audism followers who beat me u badly after all I have said it all along right here in the past. NO difference between JILLO, SHEB and ME as Sweetmind as a original one if you mind. I have a high respect of Jillo who doesnt give it up for Deaf children s rights and Deaf Languages that is our true natural visual language that audist attitude people who have no rights to take away from us from a start. So Be IT!. Good Job, Jillo!!!! Thank you Jillo/Sheb90.

Deaf children can learn ASL, speak as their best effort and lipread without having the requirement of any devices on them. We can do it without your audist attitude people s opinions because you were never in our Deaf shoes for many years.. Audism people have no faith in us and our deafness without devices.. Thats the issue with your damn ATTITUDES.

Have a good day!;)
Sweetmind
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Hi, there, Sweetmind!
 
Sweetmind said:
...................... SELIFISH AUDIST ATTITUDE ...................... ASL....................... AWAY FROM ...................... FIRST ...................... YOU ARE D E A F NOT A HEARING PERSON SO BE IT. ...................... . NO ...................... AUDIST ATTITUDE ...................... ASL ...................... . Scoffs!
......................
WHERE ARE DEAF CHILDREN S RIGHTs? ...................... AUDIST ATTITUDE ...................... JILLO ...................... SHEL90 ...................... AUDIST ATTITUDE ...................... AUDIST ...................... Cloggy / Rick/ LMOL/ Boult/ ...................... audism ...................... NO ...................... JILLO, SHEB ...................... ME ...................... Sweetmind ...................... So Be IT!. ...................... Jillo!!!! ...................... Jillo/Sheb90.

...................... ASL, ...................... ATTITUDES.

Have a good day!;)
Sweetmind
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Hi Sweetmind...

Sorry that I summarised your post, it was so long........
And remember, there's no need to shout..... we can hear you ...

Back on your post....
Can you please give me the definition that you use for "audist".?
 
Oh, jeez, too much argue.

I'm pretty much with Jillo. ;)
 
jillio said:
My problem is that she was interpreting in a situation in which a misinterpreted word or phrase could very well lead to a parent's misunderstanding of the situation. In legal, educational, and medical situations, a professional, trained terp should be used at all times to insure that accurate interpretation is being accomplished and that ethical guidelines are being followed.
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Gotcha, I see your point but still what Jackie was doing was being done with good intentions. So in an educational setting, like college, students should be provided with interpreters and not other students who know sign?
 
Just when you thought it was safe to go into the water.....

She knows what you did this summer.........

She's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sweetmind said:
OpinionJournal - Leisure & Arts

I have no respect for those AUDIST attitude expecially Cloggy / Rick/ LMOL/ Boult/ and the rest of their audism followers who beat me u badly after all I have said it all along right here in the past.
Sweetmind
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I would like to take credit for exposing your ignorance but the truth is that you do it all yourself.

Rick
 
rick48 said:
Gotcha, I see your point but still what Jackie was doing was being done with good intentions. So in an educational setting, like college, students should be provided with interpreters and not other students who know sign?
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Good intentions do not always achieve good results. And, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Other students who know sign is not an academic accommodation. It is, however, a social environment, that when provided to a child from a young age, facilitates those personal and interpersonal skills that assist a studnet in functioning at a higher level once they reach college, whether there are other deaf students to socialize with or not. And you would be hard pressed to find a colege campus that doesn't have more than one deaf student, or hearing students that know sign.

And yes, when it comes to classrooms, students should not have a non-professional interpreting for them. Nor should it occur during medical clinic visits, advising sessions, or any where else on campus where accuracy in interpretation is necessary.
 
The reason why I support on the Bi-Bi method is because of my own experiences with the oral program and my knowledge is also influenced by the tales that my classmate have told me about their problems with the oral only approach. I shall cite my own experience with being mainstreamed. It's an oralist dream to be mainstreamed with little help via sign but it was a nightmare for me. The oralists decided that I could be mainstreamed in the fourth grade. I will admit that not all of my problems were due to being deaf. My ADHD caused problems as well but I didn't know I had it till I was 28. I will cite examples of what being mainstreamed was like for me.

When I entered public school in the 4th grade, I was the only deaf child in that school. At first, everything went well. Toward the end of the fourth grade, my homework sessions ended up in screaming fests because my parents were concerned that I be up to par with my hearing peers. They'd tell me that me that I was setting up myself for failure and that I was throwing away my future. I tended to lose homework a lot and stuff. My parents resented the fact that my brother and sister didn't need as much help as I did and they called me a lazy child who didn’t' want to succeed.

Every summer, I had to have a tutor come to me and she'd give me homework so I could be up to grade in public school. I felt like I had no freedom at all. I had to go to college. It wasn’t' negotiable.

By the fifth grade, my mother told me it was already too late for me to get into a good college because my grades were poor and that I was failing stuff. She'd tell me that I had no future. I talked to my teacher if I was doing ok in English class, as I hadn't seen any F in my class even though my mother said I was failing it. My teacher told me I was doing fine in it. Even my teacher's reassurances weren’t' convincing; I thought the only future I had was to be a bum.

By the sixth grade, I didn't do my homework as it was not worth the trouble and stress that I went through. It's not worth being screamed at every night or not being allowed a break. When I did do my homework, I refused to let my parents help.

Because of my ADHD, writing was difficult for me. If you have trouble focusing on stuff, writing by hand can be an ordeal. My resource teacher was big on make sure our papers was perfect in grammar and spelling and every time I misspelled something, I had to redo the whole paper by hand. This was before computers were widely used. I consider computers a godsend. Writing on paper is like writing on stone tablets for me.

I got so far behind that I had to repeat the 6th grade, I had to repeat it and not only that, I didn't get to go the good middle school like the smart deaf kids. I wanted to go to my sister's middle school. I stayed at that middle school for only 3 months before going to deaf school.

I remember my Spanish class well because it was such a nightmare. There was another guy with a moderate hearing loss and I had to wear the phonic ear. I loved Phonic Ear in the 4th grade but now I hated it, as I wanted to be like everyone else in the sixth grade. Anyway, the whole class was done in Spanish with little visual aid. I remember my Spanish teacher wanted to know why I couldn't learn Spanish when the other deaf guy could learn it. I pointed out that he could hear better than me. She pointed out that I wore the phonic ear and that I should be able to hear just fine with it. I had no answer for her. I thought all the problems I had with school was my own fault.

Going to my parents for help was the last thing I'd do. They say that they tried to get help for me and stuff but I find it hard to believe as I was made to believe that it was all my fault.

I keep thinking that if I hadn't had ADHD, mainstream would have been a cakewalk for me despite my deafness but I wonder.

I do not want any deaf child of mine to go through what I went through. It's not worth it. My family still thinks I didn’t try hard enough.
 
rick48 said:
Just when you thought it was safe to go into the water.....

She knows what you did this summer.........

She's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I would like to take credit for exposing your ignorance but the truth is that you do it all yourself.



Rick
Click to expand...

Thanks for giving us another example of the attitude that Sweetmind was talking about. Just one more attempt to discount the experience of a Deaf person who knows something you don't...what it is to live as a deaf person. Why are you so threatened by that, Rick? Is it insecurity over your decisions? Realization that perhaps you didn't consider all sides prior to making your decision? Fear that your own daughter may one day marry a deaf man, riase deaf children, and make her life within Deaf culture? Fear that you won't be able to follow her there because you njever bothered to learn ASL?
 
deafskeptic said:
The reason why I support on the Bi-Bi method is because of my own experiences with the oral program and my knowledge is also influenced by the tales that my classmate have told me about their problems with the oral only approach. I shall cite my own experience with being mainstreamed. It's an oralist dream to be mainstreamed with little help via sign but it was a nightmare for me. The oralists decided that I could be mainstreamed in the fourth grade. I will admit that not all of my problems were due to being deaf. My ADHD caused problems as well but I didn't know I had it till I was 28. I will cite examples of what being mainstreamed was like for me.

When I entered public school in the 4th grade, I was the only deaf child in that school. At first, everything went well. Toward the end of the fourth grade, my homework sessions ended up in screaming fests because my parents were concerned that I be up to par with my hearing peers. They'd tell me that me that I was setting up myself for failure and that I was throwing away my future. I tended to lose homework a lot and stuff. My parents resented the fact that my brother and sister didn't need as much help as I did and they called me a lazy child who didn’t' want to succeed.

Every summer, I had to have a tutor come to me and she'd give me homework so I could be up to grade in public school. I felt like I had no freedom at all. I had to go to college. It wasn’t' negotiable.

By the fifth grade, my mother told me it was already too late for me to get into a good college because my grades were poor and that I was failing stuff. She'd tell me that I had no future. I talked to my teacher if I was doing ok in English class, as I hadn't seen any F in my class even though my mother said I was failing it. My teacher told me I was doing fine in it. Even my teacher's reassurances weren’t' convincing; I thought the only future I had was to be a bum.

By the sixth grade, I didn't do my homework as it was not worth the trouble and stress that I went through. It's not worth being screamed at every night or not being allowed a break. When I did do my homework, I refused to let my parents help.

Because of my ADHD, writing was difficult for me. If you have trouble focusing on stuff, writing by hand can be an ordeal. My resource teacher was big on make sure our papers was perfect in grammar and spelling and every time I misspelled something, I had to redo the whole paper by hand. This was before computers were widely used. I consider computers a godsend. Writing on paper is like writing on stone tablets for me.

I got so far behind that I had to repeat the 6th grade, I had to repeat it and not only that, I didn't get to go the good middle school like the smart deaf kids. I wanted to go to my sister's middle school. I stayed at that middle school for only 3 months before going to deaf school.

I remember my Spanish class well because it was such a nightmare. There was another guy with a moderate hearing loss and I had to wear the phonic ear. I loved Phonic Ear in the 4th grade but now I hated it, as I wanted to be like everyone else in the sixth grade. Anyway, the whole class was done in Spanish with little visual aid. I remember my Spanish teacher wanted to know why I couldn't learn Spanish when the other deaf guy could learn it. I pointed out that he could hear better than me. She pointed out that I wore the phonic ear and that I should be able to hear just fine with it. I had no answer for her. I thought all the problems I had with school was my own fault.

Going to my parents for help was the last thing I'd do. They say that they tried to get help for me and stuff but I find it hard to believe as I was made to believe that it was all my fault.

I keep thinking that if I hadn't had ADHD, mainstream would have been a cakewalk for me despite my deafness but I wonder.

I do not want any deaf child of mine to go through what I went through. It's not worth it. My family still thinks I didn’t try hard enough.
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deafskeptic,

Thank you for sharing your story. It is so similar to so many other deaf, orally mainstreamed students, and just as heartbreaking to read. It is beyond me how any hearing parent of any deaf child can read these accounts over and over, and not understand that this is their child, too. It is a common thread that runs through the soul of deaf mainstreamed kids, and kids whose families never learned even a small amount of sign for use at home. It is stories like these that motivated me to return to school to complete my education in order to be able to advocate for these students, as well as the adults these students become. When I speak for the deaf/Deaf I have had contact with, as well as those I am currently in daily contact with, it is their story that I attempt to make heard. It is not my voice I speak with, but their collective voices. Not that I share their experience, nor, as long as I am hearing, will I be able to completely share their experience. But I have paid attention to what various and numerous deaf individuals have shared with me. I have researched and studied, and everything I have encountered indicates to me that the points the Deaf/deaf make regarding their needs are valid. It is also evident that the majority of hearing parents refuse, for whatever reason, to see what is so clearly right in front of them. For every Deaf/deaf person that has told a story similar to yours is a parent that has held onto the belief that their deaf child will be different from every other deaf child that has gone before them. One day, the parents that continue to hold onto these delusions will hear their own deaf child tell the same story. But they will refuse to hear that, as well.

In the decisions I have made regarding my own child, and in the counseling and assistance I provide for my students and their parents, there is nothing remarkable. There is nothing special. I just have taken the time to understand what is said to me, to make the attempt to put myself in the other guy's shoes, and approach things from that standpoint. As a consequence, I have made a few hearing enemies. But I have made many,many more deaf friends. The trade off has been well worth it.
 
jackiesolorzano said:
You are hurt by something. Really Rick is not down playing this student success, he is saying WOW, he is doing what any other sophmore is doing.
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Then why not just say, "Wow! That is fantastic!!" instead of adding commentary? Seriously, isn't what deaf/hoh people do good enough for you and Rick? Sheesh! It bugs the crap out of me when people have undermined what deaf/hoh students need and want. The first place you people look is at the bottom line to see what the cost is. Then you look at the ADA and see if it is "reasonable accomodations" before you start tweeking it and taking things away. Hearing kids don't have to put up with this shit, jackie, so why should deaf/hoh kids have to put up with hearies attitudes? It's no wonder you and Rick are getting me angry and draining me emotionally!

jillio, are you going to follow through with contacting the principal and the court in LA? These kids need help and it's obvious to me no one is watching out for them, they're just watching out for the bottom line!
 
:roll:
jackiesolorzano said:
I said normal hearing students. Yes, of course I know deaf students are normal.

Jillo what I am going to now, I am going lose our case and lose my job. Well that is just the way life is.
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That's not what you said, jackie. This is so bad right now that I'd suggest this go to the judge, jillio. My late aunt used to teach first graders and she always called her kids a "bunch of dumb dumbs" and they weren't even deaf! She even referred to me as "deaf and dumb" until I told her that I wasn't dumb.

I'm sick of this teacher mentality that says that only hearing students are entitled to an education, as I am perceiving from both you, jackie, and Rick. Really, with Rick, I'm surprised that he hasn't come out without his gloves on making sure . . . no . . . damn sure, that education for his deaf kids is met at the 100 percent level with all options available. I sure didn't have that, neither did shel or most other deaf/hoh kids. The teachers' excuse about me was, "How could Peter be deaf? He speaks so well!" :roll:
 
Ya, I find it easier to make people believe I'm deaf if i don't open my mouth.
 
pek1 said:
Then why not just say, "Wow! That is fantastic!!" instead of adding commentary? Seriously, isn't what deaf/hoh people do good enough for you and Rick? Sheesh! It bugs the crap out of me when people have undermined what deaf/hoh students need and want. The first place you people look is at the bottom line to see what the cost is. Then you look at the ADA and see if it is "reasonable accomodations" before you start tweeking it and taking things away. Hearing kids don't have to put up with this shit, jackie, so why should deaf/hoh kids have to put up with hearies attitudes? It's no wonder you and Rick are getting me angry and draining me emotionally!

jillio, are you going to follow through with contacting the principal and the court in LA? These kids need help and it's obvious to me no one is watching out for them, they're just watching out for the bottom line!
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Well, pek, situations such as this are so infuriating that it is indeed tempting. However, I suspect that, based on the way that jackie has handled herself here, with all of her contradictions and inability to support her postion in a rational manner, any thinking judge will see right through her. I'm certainthe school district already has, or they wouldn't be appealing. They aren't going to appeal a case they don't feel they can win. Besides, I really don't see the need to lower myself to the same juvenile tactics and attempts at intimidation that have been made by rick and jackie. There are more effective ways to accomplish advocacy than resorting to school yard bullyng and name calling. I prefer to abide by ethical standards, and accomplish change the way it is effective.......through intelligent presentation of the facts, and by having enough knowledge to refute those who question the methodology.
 
pek1 said:
:roll:

I'm sick of this teacher mentality that says that only hearing students are entitled to an education, as I am perceiving from both you, jackie, and Rick.
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Are you out of your mind?
 
Haven't been on AD much due to no Internet access at my new home due to some signal problems. the tech was supposed to come yeaterday but got delayed so he will come on Monday.

Anyways, I went thru the recent posts thru my pager...slllloooowww but I had the time this evening..lol!

Sweetmind..thank u. I feel the same as u. Angry at why I was forced to meet the hearing needs in the educational setting instead of THEM meeting my needs. They can meet my needs easily but for me to meet their needs with lipreading and working hard to make sure my speech was clear was draining on me both emotionally and physically. It is one thing to do that in social settings which is something I accept since the majority of the population is hearing but in the educational setting? That's where my frustrations come from so I know how u feel and the anger with it too. I went thru that anger after I discovered the Deaf community at the age of 28 and going to Gallaudet. I cussed my mom out that year for forcing me to grow up without signing and forcing me to be in an oral-only program. Then, I realized my mom wasn't at fault cuz the stupid idiot specialists brainwashed her into thinking that by learning sign, I wud never develop oral skills.

Deafskeptic..I am sorry that u went thru that. U aren't the only one and it is not just members here ..many of my friends went thru hell being mainstreamed too. Many of them have turned their backs against their parents. It is terrible.

Jillo..yea, u are not the only person who has listened and taken deaf people's experiences in account and made enemieis. Many of my hearing coworkers still battle with other hearing people about why they work at a deaf school. It is stupid that they have to justify their reasons for learning ASL and teach deaf children using ASL instead of oral-only.

Rick..as usual u put down another deaf person's opinions and the sharing of her experiences. Nothing new.

Pek...I know how u feel. Jackie's mentality scares me cuz she is a deaf educator too. If she wasn't an educator and just a parent, I wouldn't take her seriously but she is a teacher for the deaf and to say things like that about hearing people being normal really concerns me. That's the view that brainwashed my mom into thinking that by putting me in the oral only program was the best decision for her and all of us when it turned out to be the worst. Graduating from high school, I had ZERO self esteem and hated myself so much that I had thoughts of suicide but good thing I was too chicken to really think about it too much. However, developing an eating disorder could have led to the same disastrous results. ASL and the Deaf community pratically saved my life and the quality of it. If any of u put me down for sharing this, then u r sick people.
 
shel90 said:
Haven't been on AD much due to no Internet access at my new home due to some signal problems. the tech was supposed to come yeaterday but got delayed so he will come on Monday.

Anyways, I went thru the recent posts thru my pager...slllloooowww but I had the time this evening..lol!

Sweetmind..thank u. I feel the same as u. Angry at why I was forced to meet the hearing needs in the educational setting instead of THEM meeting my needs. They can meet my needs easily but for me to meet their needs with lipreading and working hard to make sure my speech was clear was draining on me both emotionally and physically. It is one thing to do that in social settings which is something I accept since the majority of the population is hearing but in the educational setting? That's where my frustrations come from so I know how u feel and the anger with it too. I went thru that anger after I discovered the Deaf community at the age of 28 and going to Gallaudet. I cussed my mom out that year for forcing me to grow up without signing and forcing me to be in an oral-only program. Then, I realized my mom wasn't at fault cuz the stupid idiot specialists brainwashed her into thinking that by learning sign, I wud never develop oral skills.

Deafskeptic..I am sorry that u went thru that. U aren't the only one and it is not just members here ..many of my friends went thru hell being mainstreamed too. Many of them have turned their backs against their parents. It is terrible.

Jillo..yea, u are not the only person who has listened and taken deaf people's experiences in account and made enemieis. Many of my hearing coworkers still battle with other hearing people about why they work at a deaf school. It is stupid that they have to justify their reasons for learning ASL and teach deaf children using ASL instead of oral-only.

Rick..as usual u put down another deaf person's opinions and the sharing of her experiences. Nothing new.

Pek...I know how u feel. Jackie's mentality scares me cuz she is a deaf educator too. If she wasn't an educator and just a parent, I wouldn't take her seriously but she is a teacher for the deaf and to say things like that about hearing people being normal really concerns me. That's the view that brainwashed my mom into thinking that by putting me in the oral only program was the best decision for her and all of us when it turned out to be the worst. Graduating from high school, I had ZERO self esteem and hated myself so much that I had thoughts of suicide but good thing I was too chicken to really think about it too much. However, developing an eating disorder could have led to the same disastrous results. ASL and the Deaf community pratically saved my life and the quality of it. If any of u put me down for sharing this, then u r sick people.
Click to expand...

Good to see you back! Hope that internet gets up and working for you soon.
 
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