Dicussion about CI.

[shel90]

Good question.
My daughter can hear. She experiences sound. She's fine without Ci as well, but she will grow up hearing, speaking, listning....
When she takes off her CI, she's deaf..

If I close my eyes, I cannot see. I still grew up seeing..!!

So u dont want your daughter to learn sign language at all?

Grow up seeing has nothing to do with not being able to hear cuz there are no issues with language delays and communication barriers. I am not arguing with u here but just pointing out that there are differences with deafness as opposed to not being able to walk, not being able to see, or any other physical limitations cuz of the language access issue. That's all.

 

[Cloggy]

Deafness is a choice nowadays... We made the choice for her to be able to hear..... Is she deaf??? Perhaps.... But she'll grow up hearing.

Are you trying to not let her part of Deaf Culture and all you want your daughter rest of hearing life...?

Your daughter will discovered and learned about Deaf Culture. Will you force her stop participle Deaf Culture?

Your daughter is NOTHearing as miracle! You have to accept your daughter is Deaf... as long she can wear ci anytime listening any sounds.. That's fine by me but as long you have to respect your daughter's life.

She is not part of Deaf culture. At the moment she can hear and socialises with hearing people / children.

Being born deaf does not mean that there's some magic rule that makes you Deaf. Nor that you must be Deaf....
I will never force her to research that direction. We'll encourage her to do that in fact.

My daughter is deaf. Not Deaf !!
She'd deaf and she can hear.

And in what way do I not respect my daughters life.... Your insunuation is close to an insult !!

 

[shel90]

She is not part of Deaf culture. At the moment she can hear and socialises with hearing people / children.

Being born deaf does not mean that there's some magic rule that makes you Deaf. Nor that you must be Deaf....
I will never force her to research that direction. We'll encourage her to do that in fact.

My daughter id seaf. Not Deaf !!
She'd deaf and she can hear.

And in what way do I not respect my daughters life.... Your insunuation is close to an insult !!

Ok that's fine ..your choice and your daughter's life but PLLLLSSSS watch for any of the issues that comes with deafness as she gets older so that way she feels people can understand what she goes through. That's all.

 

[Cloggy]

So your daughter can hear like u? My parents still think I can hear like them with my HAs. It cracks me up cuz if I could hear like them, then I wouldnt have all those communication barrier issues.

Don't project your families problems with your deafness on me.. If they do not realise how little you hear.. that's a problem you should work on - together with them.

I communicate with my daughter through speech. And I do not need to raise my voice. I can whisper.
I now whispering is an alien concept, but I can talk to my daughter at a soundlevel BELOW normal speech... And she whispers back to me..

You use a HA as argument and compare that with CI....

Read the posts of some of the people around here that went from HA to CI.... REALLY read it..

BTW.. Your family probably also thinks that you could hear if only you would get CI... and they would be wrong as well.
Some people have twisted expectations from CI.... They do not understand CI... (Hearing AND deaf people..)

I am not one of them.... I know what it does.... it's right here in my life..

 

[Cloggy]

Ok that's fine ..your choice and your daughter's life but PLLLLSSSS watch for any of the issues that comes with deafness as she gets older so that way she feels people can understand what she goes through. That's all.

Thanks for that warning.... good advise. really.

But what will she go through hearing with CI, what will she go through deaf?
Different problems....

It'f funny that when a parent shows a happy child, talking away, whispering to her friends, eager to gat her CI on.... the next phase is ... Wait until she grows up..

I have seen the children that grew up with CI... They are doing great !!

 

[shel90]

Don't project your families problems with your deafness on me.. If they do not realise how little you hear.. that's a problem you should work on - together with them.

I communicate with my daughter through speech. And I do not need to raise my voice. I can whisper.
I now whispering is an alien concept, but I can talk to my daughter at a soundlevel BELOW normal speech... And she whispers back to me..

You use a HA as argument and compare that with CI....

Read the posts of some of the people around here that went from HA to CI.... REALLY read it..

BTW.. Your family probably also thinks that you could hear if only you would get CI... and they would be wrong as well.
Some people have twisted expectations from CI.... They do not understand CI... (Hearing AND deaf people..)

I am not one of them.... I know what it does.... it's right here in my life..

Ok u have the perfect deaf child who can hear. I am happy for u.

 

[Cloggy]

Ok u have the perfect deaf child who can hear. I am happy for u.

Yeh, ignore success by putting it in the "special department" corner..

It's not just my daughter... She is not perfect.
She's an average child that can hear... Nothing special about her..

 

[shel90]

Yeh, ignore success by putting it in the "special department" corner..

It's not just my daughter... She is not perfect.
She's an average child that can hear... Nothing special about her..

Ok I respect that. Means all the experiences that other deaf ADers including mine about issues with deafness doesnt matter? Just wondering. I am not here to argue with u but just dont understand that there are so many deaf people here in AD and that I know in my personal life that expressed almost the same feelings as I do. That cant be ignored, ya know? But that is your choice and I am not here to force anything on u.

I am just more worried about why so many deaf students are being referred to my school who have CIs and do not have a strong L1 language.

 

[Cheri]

Cloggy,

no offended but what annoys me the most about you is when you say your daughter is hearing she will grow up hearing, speaking, listening....
When she takes off her CI, she's deaf.., I don't think it makes a big differences really, CI is a tool just like hearing aids is a tool, she's deaf period, she's not hearing, she uses the tool to help her with her sounding out the sounds, and words. Is nowhere means hearing, You making it sounds like she is hearing as the same as you would say that about yourself, what's different between you two is that you are hearing without an assistance in needed of a tool to help you hear, she is deaf with assistance of tool to help her hear, so careful how you wording out your responds. I wanted to say that for so long but I never seem to know how to come out and say it without offending you, I apology.

 

[Cloggy]

Ok I respect that. Means all the experiences that other deaf ADers including mine about issues with deafness doesnt matter? Just wondering. I am not here to argue with u but just dont understand that there are so many deaf people here in AD and that I know in my personal life that expressed almost the same feelings as I do. That cant be ignored, ya know? But that is your choice and I am not here to force anything on u.

I am just more worried about why so many deaf students are being referred to my school who have CIs and do not have a strong L1 language.

I agree that the experiences you see with CI are discouraging. It shows that there are problems with deaf people "getting" or "taking" CI.
The way the parents look at it is very decisive.

I can imagine that there are parents that have not been able to communicate with their child, then see CI as a wonder-tool. CI will not solve the problem. And depending on the age of the child, it might even enlarge it.

Then I can imagine there are deaf children that have read about it and figure that they will give it a try... They qualify, try, hate it....
And some will love it.

People that are succesful with CI will generally not come here.
What I like about AllDeaf, is that there are actually some that do stay after they get CI, and tell how they are doing..
AllDeaf is lucky in that respect..

If you want to see other stories regarding CI... Google "CI Blog" and you will find lots of people...

 

[shel90]

I agree that the experiences you see with CI are discouraging. It shows that there are problems with deaf people "getting" or "taking" CI.
The way the parents look at it is very decisive.

I can imagine that there are parents that have not been able to communicate with their child, then see CI as a wonder-tool. CI will not solve the problem. And depending on the age of the child, it might even enlarge it.

Then I can imagine there are deaf children that have read about it and figure that they will give it a try... They qualify, try, hate it....
And some will love it.

People that are succesful with CI will generally not come here.
What I like about AllDeaf, is that there are actually some that do stay after they get CI, and tell how they are doing..
AllDeaf is lucky in that respect..

If you want to see other stories regarding CI... Google "CI Blog" and you will find lots of people...

Ok good for them but I really am more concerned for those children who do not benefit from CIs or who are put into mainstreamed programs feeling isolated and miss out a lot. Those are the ones that I have a passion for cuz it is not fair to them.

 

[Cloggy]

Cloggy,

no offended but what annoys me the most about you is when you say your daughter is hearing she will grow up hearing, speaking, listening....
When she takes off her CI, she's deaf.., I don't think it makes a big differences really, CI is a tool just like hearing aids is a tool, she's deaf period, she's not hearing, she uses the tool to help her with her sounding out the sounds, and words. Is nowhere means hearing, You making it sounds like she is hearing as the same as you would say that about yourself, what's different between you two is that you are hearing without an assistance in needed of a tool to help you hear, she is deaf with assistance of tool to help her hear, so careful how you wording out your responds. I wanted to say that for so long but I never seem to know how to come out and say it without offending you, I apology.

Cheri... I know it's difficult to express the ideas. I have the same problem, and that's why I say that Lotte is deaf and she can hear..
Don't hold back because you might offend me. I'll be quick enough to tell you that you did... (I have been called a "Hilter" elsewhere... so you have a long way of offending to go before you reach that level..

For me "deaf" means not hearing sounds. Or not enough to be able to use it to be able to hear environmental sounds, voices etc.

Lotte can hear that. When she is awake, she hears all this. When she sleeps she does not. Nor do I....
So, she will not grow us hearing nothing - being deaf, she will grow up hearing almost everything - hearing..

 

[Cloggy]

Ok good for them but I really am more concerned for those children who do not benefit from CIs or who are put into mainstreamed programs feeling isolated and miss out a lot. Those are the ones that I have a passion for cuz it is not fair to them.

Absolutely, and I think it is wonderful that you teach them sign, means to communicate...

But using their arguments against a decision for CI is not fair. You might see a nasty side of CI, I see a good side of CI. I see the benefits, the joy, the communication.

What you see is possibly a lack of communication that was allready there BEFORE cochlear implant was chosen. And if those problems are allready there, CI is not going to solve it.

With parents nowadays, there are no communication problems (yet?) because the children are so young. A CI is a way to prevent these communication problems from happening... And in many cases this comes true. Sometimes it will not happen...

 

[shel90]

Absolutely, and I think it is wonderful that you teach them sign, means to communicate...

But using their arguments against a decision for CI is not fair. You might see a nasty side of CI, I see a good side of CI. I see the benefits, the joy, the communication.

What you see is possibly a lack of communication that was allready there BEFORE cochlear implant was chosen. And if those problems are allready there, CI is not going to solve it.

With parents nowadays, there are no communication problems (yet?) because the children are so young. A CI is a way to prevent these communication problems from happening... And in many cases this comes true. Sometimes it will not happen...

It has nothing to do with the CI...it is all about the attitudes that my argument is about. The CI is part of the attitude but the CI itself is not the issue for me.

U say "in many cases this comes true. Sometimes it will not happen."

How many do u consider "many" and how many do u consider "sometimes"

To me it seems like u are saying the CI will work for most kids but wont work for a small percentage of kids so "no problem" there. I still think one kid is too many. That is where my debate comes in...if there are cases where the CI doesnt work then why take the risk by not teaching the child both languages visually and auditory just in case that event does happen? That way the child will still have a language as opposed as "oh shit..the CI doesnt work and my child is 5 years old with no language." What is wrong with doing both? That is all I want.

 

[Cloggy]

It has nothing to do with the CI...it is all about the attitudes that my argument is about. The CI is part of the attitude but the CI itself is not the issue for me.

U say "in many cases this comes true. Sometimes it will not happen."

How many do u consider "many" and how many do u consider "sometimes"

To me it seems like u are saying the CI will work for most kids but wont work for a small percentage of kids so "no problem" there. I still think one kid is too many. That is where my debate comes in...if there are cases where the CI doesnt work then why take the risk by not teaching the child both languages visually and auditory just in case that event does happen? That way the child will still have a language as opposed as "oh shit..the CI doesnt work and my child is 5 years old with no language." What is wrong with doing both? That is all I want.

YOu are mixing two subjects...

Choosing for CI
Communication with the child..

Communication is first priority. CI is an expansion on the communication.
Like I said - and you said - If communication fails before CI, it will probably fail after it as well...

 

[Angel]

.

I communicate with my daughter through speech. And I do not need to raise my voice. I can whisper.

Umm when you said "I do not need to raise my voice", so is that what you think people should do when they talk to a deaf person by rasing their voice?....

I remember shopping at Kmart one day, but that was a long time ago, the sale lady was working at a layway, I went there to make a payment, she kept talking while she was facing down by flipping the pages from a black book, I was unable to lip-read her, so I tried to get her attention, by saying pardon me mam'a , but she went on and on, then I said mam'a I'm deaf, you have to look at me, then she looked at me then she raised her voice so loud to the point where she thought I could actually hear her, people were staring at us even my mother was a few blocks down where she actually heard a lady screaming so loud, suddenly she realized that this lady was speaking to me, it seems to me that people assume that maybe if they raise their voices a little bit louder maybe a deaf person could actually hear...that doesn't work that way...That's just only if the person is talking so quietly then yeah they would need to speak up a little bit more but raising their voice by screaming their lungs out is just making them look like a fool...


edit Also, I would like to say add one more thing here, about what you said to Shel90

Don't project your families problems with your deafness on me.. If they do not realise how little you hear.. that's a problem you should work on - together with them.

She is only trying to share her own experiences, just like you're doing here as she listen to you, so why couldn't you give her the same respect by listening to where she is coming from on this too as well ?...

 

[shel90]

YOu are mixing two subjects...

Choosing for CI
Communication with the child..

Communication is first priority. CI is an expansion on the communication.
Like I said - and you said - If communication fails before CI, it will probably fail after it as well...

???? where did I say that? I dont recall making a statement like that. If I did then I must have not made myself clear.

My point is why not teach the child both languages (sign language and spoken language or in your case languages) so that way the child wont be at risk for language delays in the event that if he or she doesnt benefit from the CI and unable to pick up spoken language? I am referring to implanted children at any age.

Ok...parents decide to implant their infant with the CI, takes the child to speech training classes for several years and by the age of 5, the child still hasnt mastered the spoken language so the child enters school with a weak L1 language and struggles in school. If the child was exposed to sign language at the same time as being exposed to spoken language, then the outcome as far as language development will be more likely better.

 

[Cheri]

She is not part of Deaf culture. At the moment she can hear and socialises with hearing people / children.

So what exactly are you saying here, she is pretty much only socialises with the hearing world not the deaf world also? You have to understand something here, The device does not change that fact, of her being deaf. Even with the implant and increased sound perception, the child is still deaf, You need to really understand that. a tool is a tool, not like you, nor not like the rest of the hearing people out in the world who doesn't need a tool to help them hear.

What's wrong with implanted individuals included children can have friends who are deaf and other friends who are hearing? It seems like to me you shutting her out or blind her from the deaf culture or deaf community. Are you playing fair here, are you really looking out what's best for her, or what's best for your own feelings? I hope you are not doing that as your own personal repudiation.

 

[DeafMonkey]

Deafness is a choice nowadays... We made the choice for her to be able to hear..... Is she deaf??? Perhaps.... But she'll grow up hearing.

Are you trying to not let her part of Deaf Culture and all you want your daughter rest of hearing life...?

Your daughter will discovered and learned about Deaf Culture. Will you force her stop participle Deaf Culture?

Your daughter is NOTHearing as miracle! You have to accept your daughter is Deaf... as long she can wear ci anytime listening any sounds.. That's fine by me but as long you have to respect your daughter's life.

Totally! agreed with this

Cloggy,

no offended but what annoys me the most about you is when you say your daughter is hearing she will grow up hearing, speaking, listening....
When she takes off her CI, she's deaf.., I don't think it makes a big differences really, CI is a tool just like hearing aids is a tool, she's deaf period, she's not hearing, she uses the tool to help her with her sounding out the sounds, and words. Is nowhere means hearing, You making it sounds like she is hearing as the same as you would say that about yourself, what's different between you two is that you are hearing without an assistance in needed of a tool to help you hear, she is deaf with assistance of tool to help her hear, so careful how you wording out your responds. I wanted to say that for so long but I never seem to know how to come out and say it without offending you, I apology.

Oh yeah Ci is just like a hearing aids But in a way yes the sound can be different not the same with hearing aids but still it is deaf

 

[Cloggy]

So what exactly are you saying here, she is pretty much only socialises with the hearing world not the deaf world also?
There is not much deaf world around..! Why should I force her to socialise with deaf children. Why drag her to places, when she is happy with the children in her neighbourhood...
You have to understand something here, The device does not change that fact, of her being deaf. Even with the implant and increased sound perception, the child is still deaf, You need to really understand that. a tool is a tool, not like you, nor not like the rest of the hearing people out in the world who doesn't need a tool to help them hear.
Define deaf !! CI it a tool, that allows her to hear....

What's wrong with implanted individuals included children can have friends who are deaf and other friends who are hearing? It seems like to me you shutting her out or blind her from the deaf culture or deaf community. You are wrong. Choosing CI is not the same as rejecting deafness.Are you playing fair here, are you really looking out what's best for her, or what's best for your own feelings? I hope you are not doing that as your own personal repudiation.

I'm doing it for her. And she loves it...
She would be great being deaf, not hearing anything. We would be great, all in the family signing with her. We did it before she got CI.

Stop assuming that choosing CI means rejecting deafness..!!