Deaf teachers losing jobs because of English

Oceanbreeze said:
I hear you, but slightly disagree. I DON'T think it's necessarily WRONG for a hearing teacher to teach a deaf student, BUT, I DO think and believe that anyone teaching deaf students SHOULD have fluency in ASL linguistics, ect.

That's only fair in my mind. If we're going to test a deaf teacher's compentency in English, then it's only fair to evaluate competency in ASL for a hearing instructor.

To simplify, if you're going to test, test everyone on ALL material that is pertinent to teaching deaf students! Don't single people out and test subjectively.

That reeks of discrimination, imho.
Click to expand...

Yea, I dont have a problem with hearing teachers teaching deaf students but they better be damn fluent and understanding/sensitive towards deaf children's needs and cultural values. I have noticed that a lot of the younger hearing teachers who are coming into the field of deaf ed possess that while the older teachers teach more from the hearing perspective. Probably because back then when they were training to become teachers, many deaf ed programs didnt include ASL linguistics/Deaf culture awareness.
 
shel90 said:
Yea, I dont have a problem with hearing teachers teaching deaf students but they better be damn fluent and understanding/sensitive towards deaf children's needs and cultural values. I have noticed that a lot of the younger hearing teachers who are coming into the field of deaf ed possess that while the older teachers teach more from the hearing perspective. Probably because back then when they were training to become teachers, many deaf ed programs didnt include ASL linguistics/Deaf culture awareness.
Click to expand...

Makes sense to me, Shel.

That's where I am coming from. It only makes sense to me that a person teaching the deaf should have knowledge of the culture and be fluent in the language of the deaf! The fact that they are subjectively testing deaf teachers on their English competency really irritates me!
 
shel90 said:
Yea, I dont have a problem with hearing teachers teaching deaf students but they better be damn fluent and understanding/sensitive towards deaf children's needs and cultural values. I have noticed that a lot of the younger hearing teachers who are coming into the field of deaf ed possess that while the older teachers teach more from the hearing perspective. Probably because back then when they were training to become teachers, many deaf ed programs didnt include ASL linguistics/Deaf culture awareness.
Click to expand...

That's what I meant and Shel said the right definition for me, thank you!!!

OB, you're right about not discriminating anyone at all. I agree on that. No one should ever be exclusive.

The fact it is hearing people testing deaf people especially deaf teachers on their English really bugs the nucking futs out of me especially when sometimes it is the hearing teachers that needs to be tested.

IE - plain = plane

cheap = sheep

yah = yeah

They can hear it but cannot spell it. We can see it and spell it.
 
Mrs Bucket said:
That's what I meant and Shel said the right definition for me, thank you!!!

OB, you're right about not discriminating anyone at all. I agree on that. No one should ever be exclusive.

The fact it is hearing people testing deaf people especially deaf teachers on their English really bugs the nucking futs out of me especially when sometimes it is the hearing teachers that needs to be tested.

IE - plain = plane

cheap = sheep

yah = yeah

They can hear it but cannot spell it. We can see it and spell it.
Click to expand...

I agree Mrs. Bucket...that's why I feel these tests are very very biased.


And we sure can spell a lot better! LOL!
 
Mrs Bucket said:
That's what I meant and Shel said the right definition for me, thank you!!!

OB, you're right about not discriminating anyone at all. I agree on that. No one should ever be exclusive.

The fact it is hearing people testing deaf people especially deaf teachers on their English really bugs the nucking futs out of me especially when sometimes it is the hearing teachers that needs to be tested.

IE - plain = plane

cheap = sheep

yah = yeah

They can hear it but cannot spell it. We can see it and spell it.
Click to expand...

In this case, test the hearie teacher on his/her English competency.

The example you cite just doesn't effect deaf students, but hearing students as well. Good teachers across the board are hard to come by. If this is the state of our educational system, no wonder you guys are mad! Any deficits that are occuring is going to be more pronounced in a special population.

Good God!
 
shel90 said:
I agree Mrs. Bucket...that's why I feel these tests are very very biased.


And we sure can spell a lot better! LOL!
Click to expand...

I admit my English skills need work. I would NOT be one to go looking to teach someone proper English; I will tell you that! :laugh2:
 
Oceanbreeze said:
Makes sense to me, Shel.

That's where I am coming from. It only makes sense to me that a person teaching the deaf should have knowledge of the culture and be fluent in the language of the deaf! The fact that they are subjectively testing deaf teachers on their English competency really irritates me!
Click to expand...

Yea, nothing new as usual.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
I admit my English skills need work. I would NOT be one to go looking to teach someone proper English; I will tell you that! :laugh2:
Click to expand...

My English is far from perfect BUT I will admit going around criticising a poor lad's ASL skills... like hubby's! :giggle::giggle::giggle:

So sorry Aghori!
 
I think the same thing happens for international teachers. Like teachers of one race teaching in another.

Ever been to a japan school to see the white guy teaching English, but his japanese isn't fluent? (like this guy Outpost Nine :: Editorials :: I Am a Japanese School Teacher warning: lots of comedy)

This stipulation is probably the same idea that influences the same kinds of teachers to be teaching at deaf schools, when you look at the bigger picture.

Has some kind of psychological thing involved. But overall focusing on the direct topic I would say fluent ASL is important, because you want to teach as much as you can with less time involved as possible. We are in ages where the number of information stuffed into our children's heads exceeds all previous generations.

Btw, Shel - I thought about it but could not really figure it out, I guess my ASL is just not up there yet. But what exactly causes ASL to make more fluidity in conjunction with mathematics?
 
faire_jour said:
None that I have ever met or spoken to. They want to use spoken language as the means for acquiring written English skills. Their focus is language just like yours, just a different language.
Click to expand...

I think I have. The first school I went to was an oral school. They divided us by how well we hear. Those who are hard-of-hearing get better education than us Deafs. I was put in a classroom where there are 3 different grades (like 4th, 5th and 6th) all doing the same work. Once at the beginning of the school year, somebody made a mistake and place a girl (who have been in my class from pre-school all the way to 12th grade) and me in the 9th grade when we should be in 6th grade. I was happy for the few weeks we were there because I knew I could do the work. The principal came and took us back to 6th grade.

That is why I want to be sent to a private school where sign language is permitted. Things are much better for me education-wise there. I feel that the first school really dumbed us down.
 
Reba said:
I "got it"--I just don't agree. Religion and belief in Creationism have nothing to do with whether or not one is an oralist.

Let's not forget it was "religious" men who established the schools for the deaf in America, using ASL as their primary means of communication and education. It's when the secular and political "experts" got involved in deaf education that the oralists gained power.

It was the very "scientific" AGB who promoted oralism.
Click to expand...

It could've been the religious sector who promoted oralism as well. Remember the "Hear the word and be saved"? They could easily see that the deaf person need to hear via CI in order to be saved.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
I admit my English skills need work. I would NOT be one to go looking to teach someone proper English; I will tell you that!
Click to expand...
shel90 said:
U know that I was kidding? :)
Click to expand...
It brings up a good point about how this particular deaf teacher of ASL should not have to be an expert in English to teach ASL. She should know enough English to be able to teach the class. The proof is in the pudding. If her students are learning well then she obviously has enough English skills to be effective. Policies are usually a good thing but sometimes they don't make sense or apply to the "real world"
 
Mrs Bucket said:
It is also one of my major pet peeves these days.

Hearing educators testing Deaf teacher's English comprehension skills when those hearing educators should be tested on their ASL skills & Deaf Culture knowledge.

For a hearing person to test a Deaf person, IMHO, is wrong on so many levels. We should turn the tables on the hearing educators and test them on their ASL linguistics, Deaf Culture knowledge and their skills with communicating with Deaf people. This would also be so wrong on many levels but it would make people realise the sensitivity of the situation.
Click to expand...

Exactly! What is good for goose is good for gander. I know it apply to Male/Female but I can see how it can apply in Hearing/Deaf.
 
but what Deaf culture got to do with the real world? and English?
I see FJ has said a lot of truth but I can also see for arguments sake that ASL/Signs is needed to facilitate the transmitting of concepts and understandings related to English

yes, AGB was in a way a darwinist as he believed in evolution, that is (during that time) as mistaken assumption that sign lacked, and as that speech is the sign of 'evolution' as a 'whole human being'. Surely it was 'scientific' as you see if you look back in history you shall understand it was in the time of the industrial revolution as well as the time of many 'births' of scientific application of medicine, moving away from quakary of psuedo-science mixed in 'magic'. Yes tragic, but all this happened was like inevitable, as society was just rolling on to science and from the (steam) engine age to the newly gasoline age just around the corner.
 
Mrs Bucket said:
That's what I meant and Shel said the right definition for me, thank you!!!

OB, you're right about not discriminating anyone at all. I agree on that. No one should ever be exclusive.

The fact it is hearing people testing deaf people especially deaf teachers on their English really bugs the nucking futs out of me especially when sometimes it is the hearing teachers that needs to be tested.

IE - plain = plane

cheap = sheep

yah = yeah

They can hear it but cannot spell it. We can see it and spell it.
Click to expand...

I see Pig language here lmao
 
Wanted to add..in the curriculm for the elementary level, the teacher's edition packets always have guidelines on how to teach reading and writing and all the worksheets are already pre-made. Most deaf teachers are proficient in elementary level English. Hoever the certification test standards are college level English, writing, and math. Some of the questions in the writing part were very difficult for me cuz I don't remember the rules despite my good writing skills. That really threw me off so I can't imagine what it must be like for someone who learned English as a 2nd language.

Also, in my experience those whose English aren't college level perfect won't teach high school English. They know where their weakness lies so most people I know have enough common sense not to teach the very subject they r weak at in the upper grades.

For elementary level, I have never met a deaf teacher with horrible English skills. Maybe not college level perfect but not so horrible that their writing hurts one's eyes.

I know for a fact those deaf whose English writing r so horrible rarely make it thru college anyway.
 
(sighs) We're so much alike, Shel.

It's scary when there's someone else out there with strong similarities... one of us will have to go, you know.

:giggle:
 
Back
Top