Deaf/HOH, What are your pet peeves from hearing people?

I want to explain why I don't think it's quite the same, people (foreigners in America) approaching us (fluent English speakers) for help.

There are a *whole* lot of us. And we get to talk to each other all the time. We have all kinds of luxuries we don't even realize we're enjoying just by not being in a minority in that particular sense. (We may individually be in other minorities or deal with other challenges, but that's another subject.)

There are *not* a whole lot of Deaf people (fluent ASL users), in comparisson. I think the ratio is something like 1:2,000. So if hearing asl user wanabees are out there trying to find a Deaf person to help them, Deaf people are probably getting that request a whole lot more frequently than most of us. Maybe some people are fine with it, I don't know, not my business. But if there's any stress involved, you can figure it's an order of magnitude greater for that reason alone.

Then think about the fact that you probably get to chat in English pretty much as much as you want. If you can find someone to talk to, you're probaby talking to them in English. Deaf people may not have that luxury, to get to use their primary language as much as they'd like. Not necessariy true for all Deaf people of course. Some work in Deaf schools or have lots of Deaf friends they see all the time, but some work in jobs surrounded by hearing people and only get to really fluently use their own language at Deaf events (if they can get to them) and VP conversations, etc. This might not be too much of an issue, unless you're interupting a conversation a Deaf person is having with another fluent ASL user, or if you're taking up alot of their time at a Deaf event when they might really rather get more time in with their friends they don't see enough.

There are a couple other privilege-related factors, but I think I'm going to hold off on that. You can get a head start though, by reading books on Deaf history, oralism, and the annoying hearing people stories thread here.
 
Sorry for the multiple messages, but you've kind of stuck a spike into a really sensitive part of my brain. Anyway, gonna post this and that should be it for a while.

Anyway, I have two scenarios for you.

(1) You know a person. You like them, enjoy their company. They happen to be Deaf. You want to get to know them (specifically, you want to get to know this person) better, and the time you spend with them does happen to sharpen your ASL skills.

(2) You want to meet someone who is Deaf. You envision that you will like them and enjoy their company. You want to get to know this person (once you meet them), and they will also help you with your ASL, just by being your friend.

Do you see that the one is totally cool and the other one is kinda creepy?

If not, imagine that you're Deaf and try it again.
 
Sorry for the multiple messages, but you've kind of stuck a spike into a really sensitive part of my brain. Anyway, gonna post this and that should be it for a while.

Anyway, I have two scenarios for you.

(1) You know a person. You like them, enjoy their company. They happen to be Deaf. You want to get to know them (specifically, you want to get to know this person) better, and the time you spend with them does happen to sharpen your ASL skills.

(2) You want to meet someone who is Deaf. You envision that you will like them and enjoy their company. You want to get to know this person (once you meet them), and they will also help you with your ASL, just by being your friend.

Do you see that the one is totally cool and the other one is kinda creepy?

If not, imagine that you're Deaf and try it again.

I like this imagery.. Somewhat like pithing a frog.

:wave:
 
There are *not* a whole lot of Deaf people (fluent ASL users), in comparisson. I think the ratio is something like 1:2,000.

Can you rephrase this? Are you saying there are one deaf person for every 2,000 Hearing people? Or are you saying there are 2,000 Fluent ASL users for every deaf person?
 
Can you rephrase this? Are you saying there are one deaf person for every 2,000 Hearing people? Or are you saying there are 2,000 Fluent ASL users for every deaf person?

Out of every 2000 people here, 1 is a fluent ASL user
 
I read AmyLynne's blog, and she stated that a handful of deaf/hoh folks on here will be offended by people who use them because of their ASL skills. I understand. But I would like to know Deaf/HOH people who are willing to help me, and at the same time I would like to get to know them and their life. Foreigners ask me to help them with English all the time; some Americans find it annoying.

There are a LOT of people out there that get angry about it. ( I don't like the word offended it just doesn't sit right with me for some odd reason. :dunno2: ) You have to imagine... Every single day, TONS of people just like you come to this site and others around on the net. They come and ask for assistance in learning ASL, with homework or various other tasks. This is a DAILY thing. Now, if you had a group of people coming to you every single day asking for help with the same thing over and over and over and over again simply because of a language you know or a skill you possess, wouldn't you get pretty peeved? Don't say you wouldn't.... because the same thing asked to anyone again and again and again and again over and over and over and over again would peeve anyone off. It gets old, quick. You're not introducing yourself just saying "Hey, my name is Bob ( whatever ) and I'm looking to meet new friends!" You're saying "Hey, my name is Bob ( whatever again ) and I'm very interested in ASL and Deaf culture and want to make Deaf friends!" See the difference? Meeting someone new out of the blue who is Deaf and befriending them is awesome. Going out seeking people for their Deafness because you're interested in them because of the culture and fact they're Deaf is totally different. It gets profoundly annoying... and fast. If you think you're anywhere near the top of the even 50% of people that have went seeking out Deaf / HoH ASL users for assistance in getting to know the culture / ASL, you're dead wrong. That's all that's being said. Yes, there are some Deafies out there who would help, but I can say that it won't be many.... I can also say that there are a lot of Deaf people who don't even affiliate with the hearing whatsoever. Just keep that stuff in mind before setting any expectations. I do wish you luck and everything in your new interest, just keep certain things in mind... that's all.
 
I want to learn ASL and would like to learn pet peeves from Deaf and HOH peeps.

I have to go back to the beginning of your thread. All you need to do is go to the ASL live class and you will learn how to sign ASL plus learning about Deaf Culture. That is what it is for you to learn.
 
Can you rephrase this? Are you saying there are one deaf person for every 2,000 Hearing people? Or are you saying there are 2,000 Fluent ASL users for every deaf person?

Sorry for the ambiguity.

Looking at the general population (lets say of the U.S.) - hearing, oral HH, deaf who don't sign, Deaf (culturally Deaf), etc - everyone altogether:

How many of those people are Deaf (meaning they identify as Deaf and use ASL)?

That proportion has been estimated around 1 in 2,000.
 
( I don't like the word offended it just doesn't sit right with me for some odd reason. :dunno2: )

I don't like it either. I always feel like it puts the focus on the person "taking offense". Almost like they're being thought of as too sensitive, etc. I feel like the focus should be on the behavior, describing it as inappropriate, disrespectful, or even just not very well thought through. If one is feeling generous.

(And being misquoted makes my blood boil.)
 
.... I do think that's what bothers me about the word offended honestly.... Never really been able to put my finger on what about it does.... I just know I never use it and don't like when people throw it all about. I'm not offended, you pi**ed me off! :laugh2: Definitely usually about severe disrespect though.
 
@OP:

Ok, so I finally want to get to why helping foreigners with their English doesn't perfectly parallel asking for ASL help from Deaf people.

Many Deaf people have been living a long time largely surrounded by hearing people.

Some of those hearing people are pure jerks. They make fun of deaf people for their deafness. They think deaf people are stupid. They think ASL looks "retarded". They express these opinions. They are completely obnoxious and moronic and their manner in expressing those opinions reflects this.

Then there are hearing people who might not be total jerks, but they don't *think*. Maybe they're trying to get someone's attention, yelling "hey-" "Hey-" "Hey!" "HEY YOU!" "HEY JACK WHAT'S YOUR FRICKIN PROBLEM I'M TALKING TO YOU!?!!" and at this point they've run up to the person and shoved them in a rage - it just never occured to them that the person might be deaf. From the experience of the deaf person, they just got assaulted out of the blue, for no good reason.

Other times, the (individual) hearing people aren't technically doing anything wrong, but the world isn't always set up to facilitate deaf people being treated fairly. I just read a blog post (Trudy Suggs) describing how she gets frustrated in the grocery store, waiting in line and then she realizes that everyone behind her has gone to another register because someone announced that it was being opened. They all get checked out quickly and she's still in line at the slow register.

Then there's the massive history of the larger (hearing) world preventing deaf people from getting to learn and use ASL. The ramifications of this are so deep and massive it's hard to describe. Just the idea of people outside the community even getting to make these decisions is sickening, and the damage it's done is colossal. People who don't get access to an appropriate first language suffer in developmental ways that affect their whole lives, intellectually, emotionally, financially, etc etc etc.

They need this language. It's nice for us but they need it. And sometimes they have a harder time getting access to ASL instruction than we do. Check out your local classifieds (CL) - look for the people providing day care who say they'll teach the kids to sign. Tell them you have a deaf child and ask them if they can come. Don't do this right after you've eaten.

Ok. So lots and lots of deaf people live with these kinds of experiences, in the environment these experiences create, for their whole lives. For their communities' whole lives. It is abuse, oppression, hideous and unacceptable. This is not something to pity deaf people for. It is something to be ashamed of as people of the hearing culture/world. It is not about them, it is on us. Some of us acknowledge it and try to do better. Some aren't aware of it. Some of us want to learn ASL.

So try, in your head, to be that Deaf person, with all that going on. And a clueless hearie comes bouncing up to them all psyched about learning ASL and they want some help and maybe friendship and probably no sense of the backdrop for all this.

Being patient with us, being generous with us, that's a huge deal. It's not the same as us helping foreigners with their English. The foreigners haven't been oppressing us and abusing us for ages. You may feel that you're not personally responsible. That actually makes it a bit worse.

Amazingly, some Deaf people are still patient and generous with us. I hope you will appreciate the significance of that.
 
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I'm not offended, you pi**ed me off! :laugh2:

:h5:

A friend of mine has a picture on his wall of these two well dressed women talking - the quote below them said

"I don't need anger management lessons. You need shut the f*** up lessons."

I stood there laughing for so long he let me take it home:):)
 
There are a LOT of people out there that get angry about it. ( I don't like the word offended it just doesn't sit right with me for some odd reason. :dunno2: ) You have to imagine... Every single day, TONS of people just like you come to this site and others around on the net. They come and ask for assistance in learning ASL, with homework or various other tasks. This is a DAILY thing. Now, if you had a group of people coming to you every single day asking for help with the same thing over and over and over and over again simply because of a language you know or a skill you possess, wouldn't you get pretty peeved? Don't say you wouldn't.... because the same thing asked to anyone again and again and again and again over and over and over and over again would peeve anyone off. It gets old, quick. You're not introducing yourself just saying "Hey, my name is Bob ( whatever ) and I'm looking to meet new friends!" You're saying "Hey, my name is Bob ( whatever again ) and I'm very interested in ASL and Deaf culture and want to make Deaf friends!" See the difference? Meeting someone new out of the blue who is Deaf and befriending them is awesome. Going out seeking people for their Deafness because you're interested in them because of the culture and fact they're Deaf is totally different. It gets profoundly annoying... and fast. If you think you're anywhere near the top of the even 50% of people that have went seeking out Deaf / HoH ASL users for assistance in getting to know the culture / ASL, you're dead wrong. That's all that's being said. Yes, there are some Deafies out there who would help, but I can say that it won't be many.... I can also say that there are a lot of Deaf people who don't even affiliate with the hearing whatsoever. Just keep that stuff in mind before setting any expectations. I do wish you luck and everything in your new interest, just keep certain things in mind... that's all.


Perhaps AllDeaf.com should get rid of the "Sign Language & Oralism" Section of the forum? The description of that section is:
http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/
"American Sign Language, English Sign Language, Oralism. Which one is it going to be, and why?"

If alldeaf.com changes the description of this section, maybe there wouldn't be Hearing people constantly asking for help with ASL.

Communication is a key to making friends. Wouldn't I make more German friends if I spoke German? Judging from the forums, some people complain about Hearing people and lack of communication. If Hearing people knew ASL, wouldn't that lessen the pet peeves?
 
Perhaps AllDeaf.com should get rid of the "Sign Language & Oralism" Section of the forum? The description of that section is:
http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/
"American Sign Language, English Sign Language, Oralism. Which one is it going to be, and why?"

If alldeaf.com changes the description of this section, maybe there wouldn't be Hearing people constantly asking for help with ASL.

Communication is a key to making friends. Wouldn't I make more German friends if I spoke German? Judging from the forums, some people complain about Hearing people and lack of communication. If Hearing people knew ASL, wouldn't that lessen the pet peeves?


On the bold statement, yes, communication is the key to making friends but still you would rather do the language and not the person. You just assume what the d/Deaf and Hard Of Hearing are suppose to do in order to get what you want from them. After a while with signing, later you might hope to change them to do what you want them to do like talking instead of ASL. There are some movies which tell the hearies that a hearing person can change their deaf perspectives and they made the d/Deaf feel defeated and disappointed that the hearies don't get it. It is still oppression on getting the d/Deaf people to do what hearies want from them. They never care to hear our needs, so why do we have to put with our suffering in order to please them.

Maybe some of the hard of hearing people might not have some problems but they are pretty much like us struggling trying to understand what the hearing people want from them. Their hearing perspective hurt them so much and make them suffered trying to please them so that they don't have to worry about communicating with ASL. They want us to talk directly to them better than ASL. The hearies don't have to worry about being suffered trying to learn ASL and don't need to face us when communicating with us. They don't care about us being d/Deaf and hard of hearing.

Just trying to explain our d/Deaf perspective. I hope you understand what I am trying to explain. If I try to explain more than once, then that is the way I am as a Deaf person. I need ASL to communicate and to understand what is going on around me especially in schools and social events including public places like doctor's offices.
 
Perhaps AllDeaf.com should get rid of the "Sign Language & Oralism" Section of the forum? The description of that section is:
http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/
"American Sign Language, English Sign Language, Oralism. Which one is it going to be, and why?"

If alldeaf.com changes the description of this section, maybe there wouldn't be Hearing people constantly asking for help with ASL.

Communication is a key to making friends. Wouldn't I make more German friends if I spoke German? Judging from the forums, some people complain about Hearing people and lack of communication. If Hearing people knew ASL, wouldn't that lessen the pet peeves?

As a kid I played with a neighbor and learned Dutch just because that was how to talk to her. I wasn't forced to hang out with her nor was it the plan to get me to learn Dutch purely by repeated exposure. I wanted to play with my friend, thus I learned it without even trying. Same with German... I failed the beginners class first semester and after making friendships with Germans and talking about life in general I retested after summer vacation for advanced. I didn't want to befriend Germans, I wanted to befriend my peers.

Same goes for ASL. I honestly wouldn't care if someone who had no interest in knowing ME ever learned to talk with me. If someone seems interesting, there's a will and a way. I mentioned in another forum you started asking questions - my boyfriend for example learned ASL after knowing me for a few weeks. He never signed up for a class nor did he actually ask me to teach him vocabulary... He asked when it was appropriate and applicable. We've never had full on conversations about vocabulary, but if he fingerspells a word often I'll say it for him. He knows I don't want to be a teacher or a dictionary.

Another way to see this is that if you want to date a girl, you don't stalk her and learn all her favorite music and movies and colors... That's seriously creepy and people get arrested for that. If you want to know someone you ask them details conversationally. Different scenario, same way of getting to know people. Learn to talk with your friend.... Don't assume all deaf people want to be your friend because you can sign. The complaints you see across alldeaf are not because the person can't sign... It's because the person isn't compassionate enough to make an effort to slow down or clarify. It's also because hearing people with good intentions overcompensate and treat us like a child.

Seriously - learn to talk with an individual who seems interesting, stop assuming we're all the same and gravitate towards people who can sign, and meet someone who you like the personality and the hobbies of, THEN strengthen your conversational skills. If you want to learn ASL because it's your passion as a language, have at it. But don't learn ASL because us deafies are cool people. Individually we are, but as a whole you can't stereotype us.

:ty:
 
I just thought of it...i commented on this thread of pet peeves when it comes fro hearing people abd im hearing myslef. Lol.
 
Why wouldn't deaf people be able to drive? But then i am hearing and cant drive...

Are you hearing or pretend to be hearing? If you have hearing loss, then you might be hard of hearing depending on the degree of hearing loss in your audiograph. There are some d/hard of hearing people who are ashamed of their hearing losses and tried very hard to hide them.

There is nothing to be ashamed of being deaf or hard of hearing. This is your deaf perspective. You can not change it from deaf to hearing. You have to learn to live with it. :cool2:
 
I just thought of it...i commented on this thread of pet peeves when it comes fro hearing people abd im hearing myslef. Lol.

Haha I think you can have an opinion. You hear comments from hearing people about the Deaf.
 
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