Deaf Education research......

[shel90]

Erk ... I learned ASL and speech simultaneously. What that means: two primary languages AT THE SAME TIME. You've asked us not to pretend to know what's going on with Miss Kat. Guess what? The same applies to you. You don't get to pretend to know what I experienced when I was 2.

I have seen many kids do the same too and many of my deaf friends grew up with both. Can use ASL, speak and write English without a problem.

And if they dont speak the language, is that the end of the world? As long as they have critical thinking and high literacy skills in both languages, they are just as good as hearing people.

Geez...

 

[faire_jour]

Erk ... I learned ASL and speech simultaneously. What that means: two primary languages AT THE SAME TIME. You've asked us not to pretend to know what's going on with Miss Kat. Guess what? The same applies to you. You don't get to pretend to know what I experienced when I was 2.

Primary means that you use it the majority of the time. You can only have one primary language. You can be bilingual and fluent in both languages, but they can't both be your primary language. Which language was used at school? Which language was used for every day communication? What about for doing homework? Playing with friends? Talking to extended family?

 

[deafgal001]

Wirelessly posted

Huh?

 

[AlleyCat]

Primary means that you use it the majority of the time. You can only have one primary language. You can be bilingual and fluent in both languages, but they can't both be your primary language. Which language was used at school? Which language was used for every day communication? What about for doing homework? Playing with friends? Talking to extended family?

Both. Why is that so difficult to understand? I had sign and spoken language at school. I had sign and spoken language with family. I had sign and spoken with friends. I still have both sign and spoken language today.

 

[faire_jour]

Both. Why is that so difficult to understand? I had sign and spoken language at school. I had sign and spoken language with family. I had sign and spoken with friends. I still have both sign and spoken language today.

Was it SIM COM or one at a time or what?

 

[deafgal001]

Wirelessly posted

It means sometime she signs and sometimes she use spoken language. It depends on the situation.

 

[deafdyke]

There are plenty of people who believe that ASL should be the language of education and of communication. They believe it should be used, from birth, as the primary language. Then, later, a child can have some speech therapy. BUT, it isn't to be done in pull out, and you can't do listening alone, without signing, because that is cruel. Also, being oral only is NEVER ok.......so, how do you possibly teach spoken language? How is a child going to learn the language without being exposed to it???

Bear in mind that even at Gally this is considered radical. You seem to keep harping on your experiance with a bi bi school as THE definition of what bi bi schools are like. I really think if you had experianced a bi bi school, with an experianced speech teacher, you would be RAVING about bi bi schools. Like for example, if you had experianced TLC or Marlyland School for the Deaf or FSDB, or St. Rita's you would be RAVING about them.
Even DODA families aren't all voice off you know!
All we are saying is that dhh kids simply need SOME consistant regular good speech therapy by someone who is experianced with teaching dhh kids oral abilty in order to aquire spoken language. For early intervention, and early childhood, kids should have access to good speech and sign. Even profound deaf kids can learn to speak....I have a friend who was first generation CI, and she had speech therapy and learned to speak and ALSO learned to Sign!

You can only have one primary language. You can be bilingual and fluent in both languages, but they can't both be your primary language. Which language was used at school? Which language was used for every day communication? What about for doing homework? Playing with friends? Talking to extended family?

You can switch in and out...that's how Spanglish was born. When you have two languages, you can easily switch in and out....and when you're Dhh you often need to. I have quebeosis friends who use English a lot, but then they also use French a lot too. I have bororiia friends who use Spanish and English as needed.

 

[Hohtopics]

no, try and keep up, what works best for the child. Maybe this is a concept that you are struggling with but each and every child is unique and what works for one child may not be best for another and likewise what did not work for one child may be the best option for another.

+1

 

[Hohtopics]

New world? What have they been abducted by aliens?

Sorry, but our children do not need to "fit in" as we are giving them the opportunities to be vital parts of their families and their communities.

BTW that also includes the deaf community as well.

Rick

Yes Rick. That although I've made some deaf friends over the years I've always considered myself to first and foremost come from my own family and not the deaf community's!

 

[jillio]

Because I have done both. There is a ton of knowledge. That is why a teacher of the deaf is different from a mainstream teacher. What do you think they do for those extra years in school?

A TOD, unless they have their certificate from somewhere like The Tracy Clinic, is learning about the cognitive and learning differences of deaf children and the proper way to address them educationally. Shel is a TOD. She advocates the same thing as I do, because she has had the advanced education that teaches her what works and what doesn't and why it works or doesn't work.

 

[jillio]

There are PLENTY of ASL using kids that have language delays! It is absurd to claim otherwise. 90% of their parents don't use the language and will never have the ability to converse above a preschool level. They have delays because they don't have proper language models. You are simply trading one kind of delay for another.

That is an absurd argument. Amd, the kids who show delays with ASL are generally those that only get ASL after becoming what the educational and audiological fields call "oral failures." First of all, that is a horrid label to stick on a child. Second of all, the oral perspective has created the delays they now try to use as justification for creating more delays.

 

[jillio]

ok, Since you say ASL is easy then I expect parents to go beyond preschool level.

No doubt. Fluency could be achieved in a matter of weeks if it is so easy. I must be a real dumb ass. I am still working on my ASL and I've been at it 20 years.

 

[jillio]

. Right on jillo!!!! rick48 bear in mind that jillo's son is BILINGAL! We're not saying "oh let's just restrict dhh kids to ASL only." jillo's son can hear and speak and interact with hearing people....BUT he's not dependent on his hearing aid. He can function both with and without his hearing aid!" (or CI if he had one) I have to say I think you feel guilty b/c you bought into the "freedom in listening and talking" propaganda that AG Bell pushed. You did not have to do oral only. You could have done speech AND sign. If Sign advocates promoted their methodology as " your kid can be BILINGAL!" you'd see membership in AG Bell shrink.
Exactly! There are some dhh kids who grew up with minimal issues from being oral only and mainstreamed to the max...but a lot more had major issues with it. Oralism is based on the assumption that hoh kids are more hearing then deaf. There are some kids like that yes, but overall oral only is "oh stuff like ASL and deaf culture and cued speech is "limiting" or a "crutch" :roll:
EXACTLY!!!! Were you aware that Braille and other blind interventions aren't very popular in blind ed?

Yes, I am aware, and I find that practice objectionable as well. But even then, it is not as damaging as is oral only. A blind child is not restricted in communication. They can use books on tape instead of braille, and still have complete access to the material.

 

[jillio]

There are plenty of people who believe that ASL should be the language of education and of communication. They believe it should be used, from birth, as the primary language. Then, later, a child can have some speech therapy. BUT, it isn't to be done in pull out, and you can't do listening alone, without signing, because that is cruel. Also, being oral only is NEVER ok.......so, how do you possibly teach spoken language? How is a child going to learn the language without being exposed to it???

Again with the speech! Soooo obvious what your issue is. I would rather have a well educated child that can't speak a word than a drastically undereducated one that will be un or underemployed all their life just because someone decided that speech was so important to living a productive life.

 

[jillio]

Yes Rick. That although I've made some deaf friends over the years I've always considered myself to first and foremost come from my own family and not the deaf community's!

And yet your screen name is HHIssues.

 

[jillio]

I think it is irresponsible for a parent to choose ASL for their child and NOT become fluent. It is completely ridiculous.

That has virtually nothing to do with the discussion. While there are those parents that do that, more frequently they switch to oral in midstream because they find that learning ASL actually requires a great deal of effort and practice.

 

[jillio]

Well .. we've talked about the pull-outs in the terms of the stigma it puts on us, the bullying and whatnot.

As far as the with, or without signing, or teaching spoken language, or not, or exposure, it's what I, among many others here have tried to share with you, and we get shot down every time.

So I'm not going to bother answering that question any further. No sense beating a dead horse.

That poor horse has been reduced to a pile of crushed bones at this point.

 

[deafgal001]

Yes, I am aware, and I find that practice objectionable as well. But even then, it is not as damaging as is oral only. A blind child is not restricted in communication. They can use books on tape instead of braille, and still have complete access to the material.

Everywhere I go, there's brailles and they are not permitted to use it? Access is right on their fingertips...

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

Because I have done both. There is a ton of knowledge. That is why a teacher of the deaf is different from a mainstream teacher. What do you think they do for those extra years in school?

A TOD, unless they have their certificate from somewhere like The Tracy Clinic, is learning about the cognitive and learning differences of deaf children and the proper way to address them educationally. Shel is a TOD. She advocates the same thing as I do, because she has had the advanced education that teaches her what works and what doesn't and why it works or doesn't work.

there are actually several (more than 10 i believe) masters programs for teachers of the deaf that focus on auditory oral education.

 

[jillio]

You aren't going to say it because you don't have an answer. It is impossible to have two primary languages. It is impossible to immerse a child in two languages at the same time. One language is going to have to be stressed at a time, and those advocates believe it should always be ASL.

Also, there is a discussion in another thread at this moment saying that it is not a problem for a child to miss out on years and years of language learning and have huge language delays..............

It is not impossible to immerse a child in two languages at once. Families of other cultures do it all the time.