Deaf culture as a group

[kyleb]

As a Bilaterally deaf person interesting to read about the alleged cultural influences of "deafness". Not immediately obvious to me since December 20, 2006-the date I became bilaterally deaf.

Never dull-to say the least.

Off to deaf swimming shortly.

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

You are physically deaf, not culturally Deaf. You don't identify with Deaf culture.

You are projecting your own hearing mindness on these posts about a culture that you don't even identify with. It would be in your best interest to not discuss things that you don't have the knowledge to comment on.

 

[drphil]

Really Kyle. I understand this forum is for persons who are Hearing Impaired/deaf/Deaf/Blind deaf and others interested. Supposedly one's experience.
I am most interested in what is defined as "nonphysical deafness". How come it didn't happen to me? Does "it" have to be " approved by deaf community"? Learn ASL and communicate to whom?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

 

[StSapphire]

Really Kyle. I understand this forum is for persons who are Hearing Impaired/deaf/Deaf/Blind deaf and others interested. Supposedly one's experience.
I am most interested in what is defined as "nonphysical deafness". How come it didn't happen to me? Does "it" have to be " approved by deaf community"? Learn ASL and communicate to whom?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

I'm not sure if you'll respond to this, but I will try to be as precise as possible to help you understand what others are trying to communicate to you. (Of note - everywhere where I would have said "talking about" or "saying" or whatnot, I've replaced with "communicating/communicated/etc" to avoid confusion over whether or not I actually mean verbal communication over the internet, since we're really all typing messages to each other.)

1) The forum, as a whole, is for all people who are any form of deaf, or interested in any form of deafness. This includes the following mutually exclusive categories of people:

1. Physically deaf (or hard of hearing); Culturally Deaf
2. Physically deaf (or hard of hearing); not culturally Deaf <-- This is the category that you, drphil, appear to fall under
3. Physically hearing; Culturally Deaf
4. Physically hearing; not culturally Deaf

The majority of the population of the world falls into category four. The default position for someone who is either late-deafened or simply ignorant of the existence of Deaf Culture (such as yourself) tends to be category two.

Membership in categories one or three generally requires a desire to identify with that group. When people communicate about being either "deaf" or "Deaf", the "capital D" indicates that they're communicating about "Culturally Deaf" (and more specifically, not communicating about you personally, since you do not identify with this cultural group). The "lowercase D" indicates that they're communicating about "phsycial deafness" which does include you.

And before you ask why the people at Sunnybrook didn't inform you of any of this, it's because the process of getting a CI doesn't generally involve the Culturally Deaf community. I know for a fact that you've been given the address of your local Culturally Deaf community center, so if you would prefer to have someone explain this information to you in person, you can feel free to visit there, and they will explain the same things which I just have as well.

If you have any further questions, feel free to actually ask them. It seems clear that you have a significant misunderstanding with the meaning of many things that several people have been trying to communicate to you. Your responses have demonstrated this misunderstanding and often appear to be insulting the person you're responding to due to this misunderstanding.

If you're not trying to be insulting, then feel free to actually ask people about anything that appears to be a miscommunication, and I'm sure most people here will be more than willing to clarify their meaning for you.

 

[jillio]

As a Bilaterally deaf person interesting to read about the alleged cultural influences of "deafness". Not immediately obvious to me since December 20, 2006-the date I became bilaterally deaf.

Never dull-to say the least.

Off to deaf swimming shortly.

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

Yeah, we are aware that it is not obvious to you, no matter how many times, in how many ways, it is pointed out to you. You CHOOSE to remain ignorant. Which begs the question: since you know nothing of the topic, and CHOOSE not to learn anything about the topic, what makes you think you have anything at all to contribute to a cultural thread?

Let me answer that: you have nothing to contribute to a cultural thread except complete and utter ignorance.

 

[jillio]

Really Kyle. I understand this forum is for persons who are Hearing Impaired/deaf/Deaf/Blind deaf and others interested. Supposedly one's experience.
I am most interested in what is defined as "nonphysical deafness". How come it didn't happen to me? Does "it" have to be " approved by deaf community"? Learn ASL and communicate to whom?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

You have no interest in cultural deafness, other than to make feeble attempts to claim it does not exist. You would do well to follow your own signature line...Get Real.:roll:

 

[jillio]

I'm not sure if you'll respond to this, but I will try to be as precise as possible to help you understand what others are trying to communicate to you. (Of note - everywhere where I would have said "talking about" or "saying" or whatnot, I've replaced with "communicating/communicated/etc" to avoid confusion over whether or not I actually mean verbal communication over the internet, since we're really all typing messages to each other.)

1) The forum, as a whole, is for all people who are any form of deaf, or interested in any form of deafness. This includes the following mutually exclusive categories of people:

1. Physically deaf (or hard of hearing); Culturally Deaf
2. Physically deaf (or hard of hearing); not culturally Deaf <-- This is the category that you, drphil, appear to fall under
3. Physically hearing; Culturally Deaf
4. Physically hearing; not culturally Deaf

The majority of the population of the world falls into category four. The default position for someone who is either late-deafened or simply ignorant of the existence of Deaf Culture (such as yourself) tends to be category two.

Membership in categories one or three generally requires a desire to identify with that group. When people communicate about being either "deaf" or "Deaf", the "capital D" indicates that they're communicating about "Culturally Deaf" (and more specifically, not communicating about you personally, since you do not identify with this cultural group). The "lowercase D" indicates that they're communicating about "phsycial deafness" which does include you.

And before you ask why the people at Sunnybrook didn't inform you of any of this, it's because the process of getting a CI doesn't generally involve the Culturally Deaf community. I know for a fact that you've been given the address of your local Culturally Deaf community center, so if you would prefer to have someone explain this information to you in person, you can feel free to visit there, and they will explain the same things which I just have as well.

If you have any further questions, feel free to actually ask them. It seems clear that you have a significant misunderstanding with the meaning of many things that several people have been trying to communicate to you. Your responses have demonstrated this misunderstanding and often appear to be insulting the person you're responding to due to this misunderstanding.

If you're not trying to be insulting, then feel free to actually ask people about anything that appears to be a miscommunication, and I'm sure most people here will be more than willing to clarify their meaning for you.

We've all tried, Saph. He chooses to remain ignorant and argumentative.

 

[StSapphire]

We've all tried, Saph. He chooses to remain ignorant and argumentative.

Makes me feel better, though.

 

[jillio]

Makes me feel better, though.

Knock yourself out. You'll soon get tired.

 

[StSapphire]

Knock yourself out. You'll soon get tired.

I'll only waste my time until I'm (personally) convinced that he's being intentionally ignorant of the subject. I enjoy explaining things to people if I think there's even a slight chance that they're honest in wanting to know about the subject.

 

[AlleyCat]

♥ You, BecLak and LoveBlue like this.

I was only allowed to "like" this. I wanted to "LOVE" this !!

 

[drphil]

First off- I go swimming-am bilaterally deaf. Right- my Implant is disconnected-NOT water proof. Is this within the ambit of what is considered "deaf culture"?

"Cultural deaf but hearing " is only a sociological label not the "deaf real condition" which I interpret as SILENCE. Correct?


Should I wander into the "local deaf community" and discuss: what is "Deaf culture"? Bring an ASL interpreter as well.. I have mentioned before I choose not to continue learning Intro ASL. Signing to a mirror isn't my idea of communication. Also, discuss-- why I choose to have an Implant? I actually don't know any persons that uses ASL in the social world I am part of. I know they are part of CHS/Bob Rumballs deaf centre but NOT in classes I have been at.

It has been suggested here that I should stop going to say "dances" and use "deaf community centre" in ASL about the latest in "deaf bowling". Real exciting-to say the least.

Of course I don't have any control on how some people can/do mis construe anything I key. Not to "insult anyone".

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

 

[LoveBlue]

First off- I am a member of Deaf Swimmers . Within the ambit of cultural deaf?

"Cultural deaf but hearing " is only a sociological label not the "deaf condition" which I interpret as SILENCE. correct?

I have never commented here on Cochlear Implant Sunnybrook re "deaf community" nor the Canadian Hearing Society/Toronto either.

Should I wander into the "local deaf community" and discuss what is "Deaf culture"? I have mentioned before I choose not to learn Intro ASL. Signing to a mirror isn't my idea of communication. Also, discuss why I choose to have an Implant? I actually don't know any persons that uses ASL in the social world I am part of. I know they are part of CHS.

Suggested that I should stop going to say Singles dances and use ASL- chatting about the latest in "deaf bowling". Real exciting-to say the least.

Of course I don't have any control on how people can mis construe anything I key. Not to "insult anyone"

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

I am deaf but I do not live in silence. (Notice I used lower-case d.)

 

[kyleb]

...

1. "Cultural deaf but hearing " is only a sociological label not the "deaf condition" which I interpret as SILENCE. correct?

...
2. I actually don't know any persons that uses ASL in the social world I am part of. I know they are part of CHS.

...
3. Of course I don't have any control on how people can mis construe anything I key. Not to "insult anyone"

(removed this insulting addition)

1. You are wrong here. If a hearing person knows ASL and Deaf culture, they are culturally Deaf.
2. This is why you are continuing to be ignorant - because you know no one that uses ASL.
3. Your ignorance can be seen by others to be right because you appear as an know-it-all.

 

[StSapphire]

First off- I am a member of Deaf Swimmers . Within the ambit of cultural deaf?

No, and your constant referral to that appears highly derogatory to people who actually do identify as Culturally Deaf. Simply being someone who is deaf as well as someone who swims, does not define a cultural group.

"Cultural deaf but hearing " is only a sociological label not the "deaf condition" which I interpret as SILENCE. correct?

Depending on what you personally consider a "sociological label", then that might be correct. My point with that category was that a person can identify with the Culturally Deaf group without being physically deaf (in your words, without experiencing 'SILENCE'). Those are two distinct (but not mutually exclusive) categories. Membership in either doesn't automatically imply membership in the other.

I have never commented here on Cochlear Implant Sunnybrook re "deaf community" nor the Canadian Hearing Society/Toronto either.

My mistake, I could have sworn I'd read older comments about you asking people why none of those organizations mentioned the "Culturally Deaf community" to you when you spoke with them. My memory isn't great, so I apologize if I mis-remembered.

Should I wander into the "local deaf community" and discuss what is "Deaf culture"? I have mentioned before I choose not to learn Intro ASL. Signing to a mirror isn't my idea of communication. Also, discuss why I choose to have an Implant? I actually don't know any persons that uses ASL in the social world I am part of. I know they are part of CHS.

You should only do that if you're actually interested in learning about the Culturally Deaf community. If you aren't, there's nothing wrong with that, but many of your comments seem to imply that not only are you uninterested in learning about the Culturally Deaf community, but that you also either think that the Deaf Culture is silly or a fantasy or something else of that sort. If this is not the case, you can quickly clarify that by simply telling everyone that you understand that there is a real Deaf Culture that does exist, but that you are not interested in finding. I don't think anyone would have a problem with that, although it is still often considered impolite to make comments on something that you're not personally familiar with or interested in learning about at all.

Suggested that I should stop going to say Singles dances and use ASL- chatting about the latest in "deaf bowling". Real exciting-to say the least.

Again, I don't think anyone is implying that you necessarily should do anything that you're not interested in, or that you should stop doing things that you are interested in. Most of the things suggested were merely

Of course I don't have any control on how people can mis construe anything I key. Not to "insult anyone"

That's why I pointed out to you that certain things you've said are often interpreted as insulting, since I wasn't sure if you were aware of that. Naturally, it is possible for you to have some control over how people interpret what you've written if you don't want to be misunderstood - once you're aware of it, you can choose to either rephrase it differently or not repeat that.

Hopefully that's able to help you some.

 

[Banjo]

"Foot in the Mouth" Syndrome. It's pretty sad.

 

[jillio]

First off- I am a member of Deaf Swimmers . Within the ambit of cultural deaf?

"Cultural deaf but hearing " is only a sociological label not the "deaf condition" which I interpret as SILENCE. correct?

I have never commented here on Cochlear Implant Sunnybrook re "deaf community" nor the Canadian Hearing Society/Toronto either.

Should I wander into the "local deaf community" and discuss what is "Deaf culture"? I have mentioned before I choose not to learn Intro ASL. Signing to a mirror isn't my idea of communication. Also, discuss why I choose to have an Implant? I actually don't know any persons that uses ASL in the social world I am part of. I know they are part of CHS.

Suggested that I should stop going to say Singles dances and use ASL- chatting about the latest in "deaf bowling". Real exciting-to say the least.

Of course I don't have any control on how people can mis construe anything I key. Not to "insult anyone"

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

Incorrect.

I would not recommend your wandering into a deaf community and attempting to discuss Deaf Culture. That is what you are doing here, and you still don't seem to grasp the fact that you are perceived as willfully ignorant and offensive. In person, the reaction will be even stronger.

 

[jillio]

"Foot in the Mouth" Syndrome. It's pretty sad.

It truly is sad. When it happens once, that's one thing. When it happens over and over and over.....

 

[Berry]

Really Kyle. I understand this forum is for persons who are Hearing Impaired/deaf/Deaf/Blind deaf and others interested. Supposedly one's experience.
I am most interested in what is defined as "nonphysical deafness". How come it didn't happen to me? Does "it" have to be " approved by deaf community"? Learn ASL and communicate to whom?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

This reminds me of a friend of mine. He decided it was time to quit chasing every girl he saw and settle down with one woman to a home and family. So he found a girl and got married.

After six months he asked me, "Mike, what is wrong with me. I'm married to this great gal, but every time I see a cute chick I want to get on with her. What is wrong with me?"

The thing is you don't change because something about you or around you changes.

I can think of at least four major differences between standard American hearing culture and Deaf culture that have to be explained to understand their relationship to physical deafness.

Deaf relationships to those they love -- Often extended family that may not include blood kin. Deaf people tend to place more value on the people they love than on the things they love.

Concept of time. Time is NOT money. Time is LIFE.

Names and naming. You often get what you deserve.

Contextual conceptualization. Standard American hearing people often pride themselves on low context thinking. Most Deaf people use high context thinking and ASL itself is a HIGH context language.

It is quite possible it Can't happen to you. You may be too indoctrinated in Standard hearing culture to be able to grasp the necessary concepts.

Fortunately for me I had a head start. My friend was a CODA (Child of Deaf Adults) and I was a COWI (Child of Wild [American] Indians).

 

[drphil]

In reading some of the comments above which I take to be a "sample of deaf culture". I have noted before the sheer irony- a "warm potential welcome" by the "deaf community" - some/all? here in Toronto. I will just stick to deaf swimming. Whether anyone here "approves"- I don't recall asking. Should I? It is a factual statement- my Implant is disconnected thus back to being bilaterally deaf.Real quiet-to say the least.

In retrospect glad I DIDN'T join any such actual groups here in Toronto! Is the persons here a sample of "deaf culture"?

ASL usage won't change my condition of being bilaterally deaf.

As for my comment re: sociological construction : Culture is discussed in Sociology Check any introduction. How real is " hearing culture"?

As for LoveBlue assertion deafness is not silence- no comment. Obviously words seem to have multiple meaning which appear to contradict themselves. An ongoing verbal swamp. I am assuming that using ASL doesn't "create sound". Is this confusing "auditory memory " with current hearing? I still have "auditory memory" . Doesn't other "deaf people" have the same condition? Excluding those "born deaf-prelingual">



Implanted Sunnybrook Advanced Bionics- Harmony activated Aug/07

 

[jillio]

Again, you assumptions are wrong. You really need to stop assuming and just start learning.