Deaf children and hearing parents...why don't the parents learn sl?

[jillio]

i guess I never should've posted this thread...too many opinions around here



My point is exactly this, take it or leave it: I find nothing wrong with CIs I just think it may also be important to let them learn a little sign, maybe go to a deaf school (yes, relocating if need be and you are at all able). Having these two forms of language can make your child even more able to fit in in a world that may not want them because they are deaf, at least with sl and oral they can communicate on both sides, provided they are accepted in both cultures. And yes I am insured, no I'm not deaf. I have worked with deaf adults who are also autistic if that makes a difference. I'm only interested in what I think is best for any profoundly deaf child.

Don't allow yourself to be distracted from the real issue, which is language delays experienced by deaf children (bothwith implants and without) that have a negative impact on them for the rest oftheir lives.

 

[deafskeptic]

i guess I never should've posted this thread...too many opinions around here



My point is exactly this, take it or leave it: I find nothing wrong with CIs I just think it may also be important to let them learn a little sign, maybe go to a deaf school (yes, relocating if need be and you are at all able). Having these two forms of language can make your child even more able to fit in in a world that may not want them because they are deaf, at least with sl and oral they can communicate on both sides, provided they are accepted in both cultures. And yes I am insured, no I'm not deaf. I have worked with deaf adults who are also autistic if that makes a difference. I'm only interested in what I think is best for any profoundly deaf child.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with CI but I also know this: communication is vital for a deaf child. What good is speech if a deaf child can not understand others around her? Any hearing devices, CI or not, only provide partial access to spoken language at best in many cases. Hence my support for sign language. I don't support sign only but rather the Bi-bi method. If you have any questions about it, I'm sure many posters can inform you about it.

CIs can work but they can also fail. Ask Shel90 about her students and I'm sure she'll explain how important language is to a deaf child regardless of if they are implanted or not.

 

[deafdyke]

Is Chinese a normal language...

Well yes.....In the Chinatowns of the USA, Chinese is a normal language. God, in NYC ALONE TONS of languages are spoken. It's not just English that is spoken. We are NOT a monolingal nation. (despite what those dumbass English-only types think(
For someone that is deaf, sign is a natural language. For someone who can hear, speaking and listning would be natural. (And sign can be added to that..)
What about a hearing person who doesn't speak? There are some people like that.....they don't speak b/c of things like apraxia, tracheostomies etc, so they use Sign. (and not just talking about MR/ autistic folks who use a handful of signs to communicate)

 

[Cloggy]

i guess I never should've posted this thread...too many opinions around here

On the contrairy. It's a very good thread, and I'm glad you started it.
Don't let the discussion discourage you. It's part of the territory....

My point is exactly this, take it or leave it: I find nothing wrong with CIs I just think it may also be important to let them learn a little sign, maybe go to a deaf school (yes, relocating if need be and you are at all able). Having these two forms of language can make your child even more able to fit in in a world that may not want them because they are deaf, at least with sl and oral they can communicate on both sides, provided they are accepted in both cultures. And yes I am insured, no I'm not deaf. I have worked with deaf adults who are also autistic if that makes a difference. I'm only interested in what I think is best for any profoundly deaf child.

You are correct in all you say... but when you say "I find nothing wrong with CIs" I see it from the point of view that you have a wrong view about CI. (but correct me when I am wrong..)
You seem to thing that one chooses between HA's and CI and this is never the case. Since, when a person can function well with HA, that person will not be a candidate for CI..!

So, again, don't feel bad about this thread. You asked a great question... It's just that there's no 1 single obvious answer....

Keep posting!

 

[Cloggy]

What is wrong with that?
Who said there's anything wrong with that.?

I think that it is great that Holly is thinking about wanting to adopt a deaf child unless she is thinking of having the child with hearing aid/CI.

What's wrong with adopting a deaf child and making a decision to let the child be able to hear?

The fact of the matter is that the hearing person must accept the child the way she is as a Deaf Individual.

btw... a deaf child is not automatically a Deaf individual... (Not sure why you wrote "Individual" with a capital..... Have neve seen a distinction between "individual" and "Individual")

Having the ASL access to the deaf child would be a good beneficial and good way to understand what the hearing environment is going on instead of having to suffer trying to understand the oral method along with lipreading. It is really just too hard on the deaf child. So please, Cloggy, try to understand us knowing about what is like to be deaf and still be proud of our deafness. We accept our deafness wholeheartly. Give us a break.

ASL is great for deaf people that cannot hear. And it's also wonderful for deaf people that can hear, and for hearing people...
An oral method for a deaf child that cannot hear is very hard... I would probably not want that for my child. But... my child is deaf but she can hear, and with that "oral" is excellent for her.!
But again, when my daughter prefers to speak, who am I to force sign upon her...??

 

[Cloggy]

I seem to recall that "devoloped" government that provides health insurance are going broke or having difficulty providing full insurance and are changing the rules to make it cheaper therefore leaving people with a very long waiting list. Is that true or not?

Financing health services is expensive, and with a population that is growing older (in average) the costs rise...
But that means other ways of financing are developed.

What I find amazing is that there's no problems to go into a war costing billions, and at the same time someone looses a house because (s)he needs to pay medical bills.....
Billions are pumped into arms, and in the own yard, funds are withdrawn for basic things like education and healthcare....

Have you had a look at the debt of the USA??? Find a graph... it will amaze you!

 

[Silentwolfdog]

Cloggy, does that mean your child can hear the spoken language itself like hearing people does?

 

[Cloggy]

Cloggy, does that mean your child can hear the spoken language itself like hearing people does?

The short answer is: Absolutely.!

She understands what's being said to her. She will repeat words that are spoken to her in the same way. We can whisper with each other. She recognizes songs, listens to the characters on TV and will play along with the instructions she is getting from them.
She can have a conversation with us from another floor, or another room. She uses the telephone to speak with her grandparents, with me when I call...
She hears spoken language like a hearing person.

Does this answer your question or is your question about "hearing fully, exactly, identical, as a hearing person".
There's no answer to that question. It would result (and has before in AllDeaf) end in a meaningless discussion.
I don't know if I hear the same way as my wife, as my collegue..
I don't know if my blue is the same color as my wife's blue.. but we both call it blue.
And sure, with CI one cannot hear throughout the whole spectrum like a hearing person can... but CI is optimized in the spectrum needed for speech.

 

[Buffalo]

But again, when my daughter prefers to speak, who am I to force sign upon her...??

How do I know that you didn't stop signing on purpose thus forcing her to speak only???

 

[Cloggy]

How do I know that you didn't stop signing on purpose thus forcing her to speak only???

Why would you assume I would be lying...??

Let's put it this way. She stopped using sign before we stopped using sign...
Why is it so hard to believe that a deaf child that can hear prefers to speak.? (....and sometimes listen... lol)

 

[jillio]

Why would you assume I would be lying...??

Let's put it this way. She stopped using sign before we stopped using sign...
Why is it so hard to believe that a deaf child that can hear prefers to speak.? (....and sometimes listen... lol)

Its all about the messages she is given from her environment. And not using sign expressively is not the same as not needing it receptively.

Numerous times you have posted regarding friends and extended family that do not sign. If a child is exposed to this, and sees a parent communicating through speech only in the child's presence to these people, as well as communicating with siblings through speech only in the deaf child's presence, the child is given the message that sign is reserved only for them and is also given the implicit message that they are somehow different (child's interpretation, less than) everyone in their environment. And the fact that you have stopped signing since the implantation also reinforces the same message. One does not have to explicitly tell a child that sign is inferior, or that speech is preferred. In fact, that is very rarely the case. But it is a message that is given loud and clear in behavior and attitude.

 

[Silentwolfdog]

The short answer is: Absolutely.!

She understands what's being said to her. She will repeat words that are spoken to her in the same way. We can whisper with each other. She recognizes songs, listens to the characters on TV and will play along with the instructions she is getting from them.
She can have a conversation with us from another floor, or another room. She uses the telephone to speak with her grandparents, with me when I call...
She hears spoken language like a hearing person.

Does this answer your question or is your question about "hearing fully, exactly, identical, as a hearing person".
There's no answer to that question. It would result (and has before in AllDeaf) end in a meaningless discussion.
I don't know if I hear the same way as my wife, as my collegue..
I don't know if my blue is the same color as my wife's blue.. but we both call it blue.
And sure, with CI one cannot hear throughout the whole spectrum like a hearing person can... but CI is optimized in the spectrum needed for speech.

I see. Lucky for her. ^^ Thank you for answering my question.

 

[Cloggy]

Its all about the messages she is given from her environment. And not using sign expressively is not the same as not needing it receptively.

Numerous times you have posted regarding friends and extended family that do not sign. If a child is exposed to this, and sees a parent communicating through speech only in the child's presence to these people, as well as communicating with siblings through speech only in the deaf child's presence, the child is given the message that sign is reserved only for them and is also given the implicit message that they are somehow different (child's interpretation, less than) everyone in their environment. And the fact that you have stopped signing since the implantation also reinforces the same message. One does not have to explicitly tell a child that sign is inferior, or that speech is preferred. In fact, that is very rarely the case. But it is a message that is given loud and clear in behavior and attitude.

The same would be true for forcing ASL upon the child..

In our case:
Dutch- speaking relatives,
Norwegian speaking friends,
English-speaking friends,
1 couple/friends that are fluent in sign
no deaf community around us to make a difference...

And she would have to be forced to know sign because ??

 

[jillio]

The same would be true for forcing ASL upon the child..

In our case:
Dutch- speaking relatives,
Norwegian speaking friends,
English-speaking friends,
1 couple/friends that are fluent in sign
no deaf community around us to make a difference...

And she would have to be forced to know sign because ??

Exposure to does not equal force. However, refusal to expose does create force to oral only.

 

[Buffalo]

The same would be true for forcing ASL upon the child..

In our case:
Dutch- speaking relatives,
Norwegian speaking friends,
English-speaking friends,
1 couple/friends that are fluent in sign
no deaf community around us to make a difference...

And she would have to be forced to know sign because ??

Doesn't she have a good friend from her former school for the deaf to keep in touch with?????

 

[Holly]

And she would have to be forced to know sign because ??

Cloggy, it appears to be that this thread has become about the situation you and your child are in, that was not my intention, and I know it was not yours. However, for the sake of argument, and to make sure we can all participate, lets keep it generic.

Who said anything about force? Of course no one should ever force anything upon their child. But what happens if when the child becomes an adult he or she moves to a place where there is a deaf community? They may be left out and feel like an outsider, when all he or she wants is to be accepted by people who understand what they are and have gone through? There is a difference between forcing, and encouraging. If the child themself stops using sign, that does not mean that you should stop using it completely. There are ways to make learning signs fun and worth their while.

Of course, in the long run your child might never use sign, but hey, at least they'd know another language.

 

[Bebonang]

Cloggy, it appears to be that this thread has become about the situation you and your child are in, that was not my intention, and I know it was not yours. However, for the sake of argument, and to make sure we can all participate, lets keep it generic.

Who said anything about force? Of course no one should ever force anything upon their child. But what happens if when the child becomes an adult he or she moves to a place where there is a deaf community? They may be left out and feel like an outsider, when all he or she wants is to be accepted by people who understand what they are and have gone through? There is a difference between forcing, and encouraging. If the child themself stops using sign, that does not mean that you should stop using it completely. There are ways to make learning signs fun and worth their while.

Of course, in the long run your child might never use sign, but hey, at least they'd know another language.

That takes guts to explain to Cloggy. I don't know why he is very stubborn about all this argument.

 

[flip]

The same would be true for forcing ASL upon the child..

In our case:
Dutch- speaking relatives,
Norwegian speaking friends,
English-speaking friends,
1 couple/friends that are fluent in sign
no deaf community around us to make a difference...

And she would have to be forced to know sign because ??

Yes, because it's likely your child will be a part of the Deaf Culture when she gets older, if we look at the statistics and surverys so far.

 

[Cloggy]

Doesn't she have a good friend from her former school for the deaf to keep in touch with?????

She was 4 when she left - nope..

Cloggy, it appears to be that this thread has become about the situation you and your child are in, that was not my intention, and I know it was not yours. However, for the sake of argument, and to make sure we can all participate, lets keep it generic.

Who said anything about force? Of course no one should ever force anything upon their child. But what happens if when the child becomes an adult he or she moves to a place where there is a deaf community? They may be left out and feel like an outsider, when all he or she wants is to be accepted by people who understand what they are and have gone through? There is a difference between forcing, and encouraging. If the child themself stops using sign, that does not mean that you should stop using it completely. There are ways to make learning signs fun and worth their while.

Of course, in the long run your child might never use sign, but hey, at least they'd know another language.

I'm sorry, my situation was used as a general example. My daughter is not exceptional.
Let's keep it generic as you called it.
I'm just agreeing with you that the most important thing between the parent and the child is communication. If sign is the way, great. If oral is the way, great..
You seemed to have to have the idea that HA's and CI are about the same thing. I wanted to show you that CI is a step beyond HA's. In a way, after HA's are of no benefit, the choice is between (the child) being deaf and hear nothing, or being deaf and being able to hear.

Just do not deny a deaf child the ability to hear because you feel that it has to use sign!

That takes guts to explain to Cloggy. I don't know why he is very stubborn about all this argument.

Why would that take guts???

Yes, because it's likely your child will be a part of the Deaf Culture when she gets older, if we look at the statistics and surverys so far.

I don't believe that that is very likely. Why do you believe it's very likely?

 

[Cloggy]

Exposure to does not equal force. However, refusal to expose does create force to oral only.

Exactly... exposure to speech / oral is not forcing it.... ... Forcing sign on her would be...