Frisky Feline
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LOL this is so weakling thread. have fun randomhearie for starting this cause. nice going.
Can you tell me about oral successes?
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rick48
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I am going to follow the advice of someone much wiser than me: ciavmom and ignore you.
lovezebras
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I'll put my own 2 cents in...
I am deaf but was born hearing and I have a very tough time understanding speech...I say things wrong a lot of the time thinking I said it right but then I get my friends correcting me ..lol It sucks sometimes but what can ya do..I lipread like a mofo and it is SO tiring but ya gotta do watcha gotta do...lol I don't think I have a "deaf accent" but I don't usually try to fake a convo or pretend I know what's going on. Usually most people can tell when someone can't follow a conversation. I think the only reason I get by so well in convos is because usually I can guess what the gist of the convo is only because I used to be hearing. I would love to just be able to sign but I do not have the money to take the classes
I am deaf but was born hearing and I have a very tough time understanding speech...I say things wrong a lot of the time thinking I said it right but then I get my friends correcting me ..lol It sucks sometimes but what can ya do..I lipread like a mofo and it is SO tiring but ya gotta do watcha gotta do...lol I don't think I have a "deaf accent" but I don't usually try to fake a convo or pretend I know what's going on. Usually most people can tell when someone can't follow a conversation. I think the only reason I get by so well in convos is because usually I can guess what the gist of the convo is only because I used to be hearing. I would love to just be able to sign but I do not have the money to take the classes
CrazyPaul
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I have never heard of deaf people who attend ASL classes. Deaf people who didn't know ASL learned it by socializing with deaf people who use ASL. It'd save your money.
CSign
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DD- Rick addressed the OP in a way that answered the question. He (along with CIavmom) provided another resource for the poster to learn more about the question that was posed.
The only one who continues to bring up how "normal" people are/can be is you, in your plethora of posts. There is no such thing as, "normal".
rockin'robin
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Late-deafened at age 14...but still orally speaking for 51 years....Sure, I do "slur" some words...and can hold conversations with hearies as long as they don't speak too fast, have heavy moustaches, mumble, cover their mouth, very thin lips or turn their backs...self-taught lipreader. But I can honestly say, that all these years of lipreading and concentrating takes a toll on your eyes, along with headaches......
And another thing, those deafies who are/were born deaf, and are able to speak and lipread....are amazing! I'm guessing that it was really a struggle.....NO...it was a struggle!...and for those hearies who take their hearing for granted....well, let them become totally deaf for a few days....and they would se first-hand what we deafies have to go through....
And another thing, those deafies who are/were born deaf, and are able to speak and lipread....are amazing! I'm guessing that it was really a struggle.....NO...it was a struggle!...and for those hearies who take their hearing for granted....well, let them become totally deaf for a few days....and they would se first-hand what we deafies have to go through....
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I have personally seen some deaf people taking ASL classes. At first it seemed odd to me. When I asked them why, they said it's because even though they know and use ASL, they want to get a formal education on using ASL. For instance, they might have thought they used some ASL structure in a correct way and only to find out it was wrong all along.
Bebonang
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Regarding CrazyPaul, I took ASL classes when I was young 20 years old after I graduated from high school. It was much easier to learn how to sign when the mainstream schools (both elementary and high school) were not allowed to teach us to sign.
There was one teacher in my high school who had taught in the Deaf school. He was fluent in ASL but he was told by our principal that he was not to teach ASL, only to teach Literature and history. We were so disappointed about that.
That is why I went to the Deaf Lutheran Church where I met the Deaf pastor. He was the one who taught me to sign. I don't remember if I paid for it or not. But really, it opened the door for me to sign and I love it. I was very happy to sign. I got to meet the Deaf community where I can sign and understand what they are saying.
No, you can not meet Deaf people if you don't understand what they sign and trying to learn from them. It is the same with hearing people who are trying to understand in sign in a Social event. It is really better to go to ASL class for both deaf and hearing people who really want to communicate with us, Deafies.
There was one teacher in my high school who had taught in the Deaf school. He was fluent in ASL but he was told by our principal that he was not to teach ASL, only to teach Literature and history. We were so disappointed about that.
That is why I went to the Deaf Lutheran Church where I met the Deaf pastor. He was the one who taught me to sign. I don't remember if I paid for it or not. But really, it opened the door for me to sign and I love it. I was very happy to sign. I got to meet the Deaf community where I can sign and understand what they are saying.
No, you can not meet Deaf people if you don't understand what they sign and trying to learn from them. It is the same with hearing people who are trying to understand in sign in a Social event. It is really better to go to ASL class for both deaf and hearing people who really want to communicate with us, Deafies.
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I am totally deaf and can not get into any ASL classes, there all full with hearing students. I do not know any other deaf people so I am struggling to learn ASL that I need to learn so badly. I can't even find a tutor, so what can I do, any suggestions?
rockin'robin
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Have you tried any Churches in your area?...Those that do have deafies attending usually have an intrepretor for the services....and so many hearies are learning to sign....As for myself, when I became deaf, I had to transfer to a deaf school, knowing and never seeing any ASL at all...so I had to learn or would have not been able to communicate....I'm still not fluent, but I do know enough to get by.
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Find any deaf service center remotely close to you, and they can find you a class. If not they almost always will have an option for you to go in for one on one tutoring. You may have to pay but there are always options.
CSign
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There were two deaf students in my ASL class last semester. I would sign up for a formal class- it will help you build a solid foundation to grow from. You never know too, there may be another person who is deaf who signs up for the class. I think it's great to pursue other ways of learning, but I think an actual ASL class would be helpful to you. Plus- often times the teacher is Deaf so you wouldn't be the only one
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Check your nearest school for the deaf:
A nearby school for the deaf may provide ASL classes to the community -- ours does. The teachers are always deaf, in my experience there, and while the majority of classmates are parents and siblings of deaf kids, sometimes new teachers/staff are there to brush up, we usually have 3-4 classmates who are deaf, either to brush up or learn anew. My ASL instructor once told me that by far, most deaf folks who think they use ASL are actually using PSE or SEE and don't realize it. He said he rarely sees pure ASL from anyone who didn't study ASL formally. My family sign instructor told me she grew up in a Deaf environment, went to deaf schools, and only found out in college that she had not been using ASL -- and had to relearn completely, yet still struggles to ensure she is using only ASL (but she and her husband slip back into the PSE they grew up with at home).
The cost at this school for the deaf is waived for families of deaf kids, and others pay only a small fee, something like $100-$150 for a semester. Not expensive at all compared with the cost of taking ASL 1 through 5 at Boston University: ~ $2500 each class. And once in a blue moon you get lucky and get the same teacher who teaches that $2.5K class.
Occasionally the school also gets grants to provide 1 on 1 distance learning for families of deaf kids via videophone -- right at home -- for those who live too far away or who don't have childcare to cover watching the little ones while taking class. I never managed to get one of those limited places (via videophone) and although having to travel an hour and a half each way for a weekly night class was hard for us, we did it by alternating nights -- I would take classes on Monday night and my husband would take care of the little one those evenings, and he would take classes on Tuesday nights.
A nearby school for the deaf may provide ASL classes to the community -- ours does. The teachers are always deaf, in my experience there, and while the majority of classmates are parents and siblings of deaf kids, sometimes new teachers/staff are there to brush up, we usually have 3-4 classmates who are deaf, either to brush up or learn anew. My ASL instructor once told me that by far, most deaf folks who think they use ASL are actually using PSE or SEE and don't realize it. He said he rarely sees pure ASL from anyone who didn't study ASL formally. My family sign instructor told me she grew up in a Deaf environment, went to deaf schools, and only found out in college that she had not been using ASL -- and had to relearn completely, yet still struggles to ensure she is using only ASL (but she and her husband slip back into the PSE they grew up with at home).
The cost at this school for the deaf is waived for families of deaf kids, and others pay only a small fee, something like $100-$150 for a semester. Not expensive at all compared with the cost of taking ASL 1 through 5 at Boston University: ~ $2500 each class. And once in a blue moon you get lucky and get the same teacher who teaches that $2.5K class.
Occasionally the school also gets grants to provide 1 on 1 distance learning for families of deaf kids via videophone -- right at home -- for those who live too far away or who don't have childcare to cover watching the little ones while taking class. I never managed to get one of those limited places (via videophone) and although having to travel an hour and a half each way for a weekly night class was hard for us, we did it by alternating nights -- I would take classes on Monday night and my husband would take care of the little one those evenings, and he would take classes on Tuesday nights.
CrazyPaul
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If you don't mind learning online, you can try this • ASL • American Sign Language
IMO, learn fingerspelling first if you haven't done so.
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Thanks these are all great ideas. The closest school for the deaf is 2 hours away. I am using Lifeprint and ASLpro fingerspelling. I have talked to numerous people and they all say the same...take ASL at local community colleges but the classes are always full.
Bott...I have been looking for a deaf service center and can not locate one. I am more then willing to pay for a tutor. The organization that puts deaf socials together in my area is a joke, they cancel almost every one. I'll keep trying tho!!!
Bott...I have been looking for a deaf service center and can not locate one. I am more then willing to pay for a tutor. The organization that puts deaf socials together in my area is a joke, they cancel almost every one. I'll keep trying tho!!!
AMazieLN
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I was born hearing. I went deaf instantaniously at 8yrs old. My bio parents refused to learn sign or teach me. They were abusive. I learned to speech read on my own and never lost my voice. Until I was adopted as an adult and got hearing aids, I didn't hear. Now I go to college and get migraines a lot from speech reading all day. It's hard. I used to just stay home unless I was working or at church. Now that I'm adopted and have a life (haha) I am plagued by migraines. I have a real-time captioner at school now, that definitely helps! I go to deaf church and am lost because I don't know enough sign and also can't hear the interpreter. I am taking an ASL class and also learning with my adoptive mom. My ASL teacher is deaf so I'm learning fast. I've decided recently I just want to live deaf once I learn to sign. I don't want to work so hard to be part of the hearing world anymore.
All that to say; I am a freekin' Ninja at speech reading and talking. But now as an adult, I am not happy with that. I wish I had been raised with ASL so that I could be a part of the deaf community. So that I could feel like I belong. As it is I feel a disconnect becaus I can't communicate with those who are like me: deaf. But yet I can communicate with those who are not like me: hearing. It's so backwards!!
All that to say; I am a freekin' Ninja at speech reading and talking. But now as an adult, I am not happy with that. I wish I had been raised with ASL so that I could be a part of the deaf community. So that I could feel like I belong. As it is I feel a disconnect becaus I can't communicate with those who are like me: deaf. But yet I can communicate with those who are not like me: hearing. It's so backwards!!
deafdrummer
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I have done it, having grown up oral deaf and not getting an interpreter until I was in graduate school.
RandomHearie
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Okay. So I'm trying to figure out what I did wrong. And I'm not sure, but I'm going to make some guesses:
1. I'm thinking that I probably came off as implying that I know (think I know) a lot, when I really don't. Probably the best way to come off as implying that would be if it's true, so even though I truly have no clue what parts of what I think I know are wrong, it seems like there are some, just from people's (i.e. Bebonang's) reactions. And, I don't know where to go with that realization; I can't figure out on my own where I'm wrong, for obvious reasons.
2. It also seems possible that I came off as implying or thinking that people who communicate well orally are better, or that that should be someone's first choice. Did I? If so, I really didn't mean that. I wouldn't have guessed this one, either, except that (oddly) the divide between posters who got annoyed with me and posters who disagreed with them or told me not to listen to Bebonang parallels exactly the divide between people who on other threads are proud to be Deaf and people who on other threads support oralism. And that seems more than a little bit weird to happen if what I said was taken as I meant it.
3. It also seems possible that, independent of Deaf cultural issues, my way of trying to learn things (ask every question that pops into my head with no organization, rhyme or reason) is annoying. Is that part of it?
4. And I'm really hoping this isn't the case, but of course, people can only understand things in terms of what they already know. It's possible my whole mental framework for understanding things would need to shift significantly, and that would mean I'd be more work to educate than I'm worth. (Of course, I might already be.) So... that would be really bad.
Those are my thoughts, but I don't know. I've really upset and offended some people, which I didn't want to do and for which (as I've already said) I'm sorry. Part of me wants to slink away right now, but I've read and understood as much as I think I can without actually talking to people, and I just don't want to be that person who joins a forum, starts a flamewar and then disappears. And I don't want to be the kind of person who gives up on trying to communicate with some group. Especially not because it's tempting to think that since I meant well, clearly everyone else just misunderstands or is oversensitive. If I give into the temptation to think that, I... don't know if I could live with myself. So.
You don't have any obligation to respond to this, obviously. I am, as I've said, a random hearie, and as you've said, I know nothing, so it's no loss to the Deaf community if you decide to ignore me. But I hope one or more of you whom I've offended will help me understand, because I don't want to stay a random hearie who knows nothing.
1. I'm thinking that I probably came off as implying that I know (think I know) a lot, when I really don't. Probably the best way to come off as implying that would be if it's true, so even though I truly have no clue what parts of what I think I know are wrong, it seems like there are some, just from people's (i.e. Bebonang's) reactions. And, I don't know where to go with that realization; I can't figure out on my own where I'm wrong, for obvious reasons.
2. It also seems possible that I came off as implying or thinking that people who communicate well orally are better, or that that should be someone's first choice. Did I? If so, I really didn't mean that. I wouldn't have guessed this one, either, except that (oddly) the divide between posters who got annoyed with me and posters who disagreed with them or told me not to listen to Bebonang parallels exactly the divide between people who on other threads are proud to be Deaf and people who on other threads support oralism. And that seems more than a little bit weird to happen if what I said was taken as I meant it.
3. It also seems possible that, independent of Deaf cultural issues, my way of trying to learn things (ask every question that pops into my head with no organization, rhyme or reason) is annoying. Is that part of it?
4. And I'm really hoping this isn't the case, but of course, people can only understand things in terms of what they already know. It's possible my whole mental framework for understanding things would need to shift significantly, and that would mean I'd be more work to educate than I'm worth. (Of course, I might already be.) So... that would be really bad.
Those are my thoughts, but I don't know. I've really upset and offended some people, which I didn't want to do and for which (as I've already said) I'm sorry. Part of me wants to slink away right now, but I've read and understood as much as I think I can without actually talking to people, and I just don't want to be that person who joins a forum, starts a flamewar and then disappears. And I don't want to be the kind of person who gives up on trying to communicate with some group. Especially not because it's tempting to think that since I meant well, clearly everyone else just misunderstands or is oversensitive. If I give into the temptation to think that, I... don't know if I could live with myself. So.
You don't have any obligation to respond to this, obviously. I am, as I've said, a random hearie, and as you've said, I know nothing, so it's no loss to the Deaf community if you decide to ignore me. But I hope one or more of you whom I've offended will help me understand, because I don't want to stay a random hearie who knows nothing.
Bebonang
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^^^^^ When I first saw your title of your thread which you were posting your first thread. I was really upset about oral-only method which the hearing society thrive for us to be oral successes. I thought you want us be like hearing people and expecting us to be orally very successful especially when it come with CI (Cochlear Implant).
I had been in mainstreamed in elementary and high school in the early 1960. My parents and the hearing teachers plus the principals don't listen to us when we tried to explain or desperately try telling them that oral-only is not the way to go because it is hard to lipread them in the hearing classrooms. I want ASL for ASL interpreters in the classrooms back then so that I can understand what is being taught and get good grades. Why do we have to get low or fail grades if we can not understand what is talked about in the classrooms? As for being in the hearing world, it is still difficult to make out what the hearing people say.
As for speaking successful with oral sounds, I speak loud and have funny accents (deaf accents), not foreign accents. People made mistakes thinking we are from another country. Ha! That is a laugh. That is why we don't care very much about oral-only method when come with speaking or lipreading just to be like the hearing people. You and the hearing people can not expect us to be like this. No way! Ha! (sarcasm)
Sorry you were offended by us but we are very blunt when we are experiencing trying to face our dilemmas of being in the hearing world whether we work or/and school. It just made me sad.
I had been in mainstreamed in elementary and high school in the early 1960. My parents and the hearing teachers plus the principals don't listen to us when we tried to explain or desperately try telling them that oral-only is not the way to go because it is hard to lipread them in the hearing classrooms. I want ASL for ASL interpreters in the classrooms back then so that I can understand what is being taught and get good grades. Why do we have to get low or fail grades if we can not understand what is talked about in the classrooms? As for being in the hearing world, it is still difficult to make out what the hearing people say.
As for speaking successful with oral sounds, I speak loud and have funny accents (deaf accents), not foreign accents. People made mistakes thinking we are from another country. Ha! That is a laugh. That is why we don't care very much about oral-only method when come with speaking or lipreading just to be like the hearing people. You and the hearing people can not expect us to be like this. No way! Ha! (sarcasm)
Sorry you were offended by us but we are very blunt when we are experiencing trying to face our dilemmas of being in the hearing world whether we work or/and school. It just made me sad.
BecLak
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Wirelessly posted
Randomhearie, the divide came when rick48 came in with his 2 cents to refute what Bebonang said. FYi, Rick48 is Hearing, he would be as clueless as you as to what it is like to be an D/deaf person who is oral. His daughter has CI/s and he prides himself that his daughter is an 'oral success.' But this is not the point of your question. You were asking about the experiences of D/deaf people who were raised oral, or what it is like for them being oral.
]Listen to those have and are experiencing it first hand. Perhaps in adding my own story along with all the D/deafies that have already shared, it will help enlighten you to why Bebonang and many of us react the way we do.
]
I was one of those 'oral successes' who spent my whole life 'pretending' I was hearing. I was born severely deaf into an all-hearing family. Cluelessly, my family put my 'deaf accent' and heavy lisp down to cute 'baby talk'. Before I was old enough to go to school, my mother would read us stories often. From the pictures in the book and watching the movements of my mother's mouth, I soon figured the letters on the page meant something. My mother paid a lot of attention to my diction as I was growing up. At the age of 7, I remember that I was reading from a school reader, I was at my desk, while others were taking turns to read out loud in front of the class. As I read quietly at my desk, I came to realize that the way I was speaking was not matching up with what was on the page. There were too many letter combinations that I didn't know. I began to relearn how to speak, I would go home and ask my mother how to say it. When diagnosed at age 11, I was told that if I wore hearing aids I would do fine in mainstream school, if I also got speech-therapy after school. I was never told about the Deaf community or sign language, I didn't know they even existed. So, I carried on trying to be as 'hearing' as I could be, without any accomodations, apart from sitting in front of class. My residual hearing is that of very low sounds and I can hear only the vowels in speech. So, it is a constant guessing game to make sense of the babble. It is only by reading and 'piecing together the puzzle' and filling in the missing gaps of letters, that I can make any sense of what is being said. Speech therapy was extremely hard work of constant drills and exercises, and it doesn't stop after a few years, it is a constant effort for the rest of your life. It is extremely tiring as has been mentioned. I stopped speech classes after a year, but I had my own speech therapist at home, my mother. I managed to do quite well in school because I loved reading. I read a lot. I didn't have friends. I usually had only one if any. I was teased for 'speaking funny' (even after all the speech therapy. I was laughed at when I mis-heard something. Those stories are endless because they don't just stop at school. When I was 13, I was thrilled when VCRs came out because I had the ability to play and replay the videos over and over so I finally got the full story plot. When CCs came out, I realized just how much I was missing. Now they are a must. It was ingrained in me from a small child that being dhh was looked down on by society. So, I didn't let on that I couldn't hear. I mastered bluffing and lip reading and the whole guessing game. It was a constant effort and hard work to keep up this pretense but it was shameful to tell people the truth, and they on the most part didn't understand anyway. My vocational training as it turned out was public speaking, a teacher and public relations. So I became one of the 'oral successes'. I thought I had mastered the guise of being hearing, until 3 years ago, I had a 'wake up call'. An incident happened in which I came to realize that nothing had changed, all that hard work in keeping up that facade was for nothing. Even to this day, I will come across people who will ridicule me and abase me for something that I had tried so hard to hide and suppress. I was sick of trying to be someone I could never be, why work so hard day in and day out when it wasn't working anyway. That's when I found AllDeaf and I began to embrace my Deaf identity. I am no longer ashamed of who I am. I now have made the choice, which had been deprived from me as I grew up, to learn my native language - sign language. I am now refusing to be oral because it is easier for me not to be. My throat is no longer sore and the heavy weight in my chest from all the effort of talking is gone. I am Deaf - and proud of it.
Randomhearie, the divide came when rick48 came in with his 2 cents to refute what Bebonang said. FYi, Rick48 is Hearing, he would be as clueless as you as to what it is like to be an D/deaf person who is oral. His daughter has CI/s and he prides himself that his daughter is an 'oral success.' But this is not the point of your question. You were asking about the experiences of D/deaf people who were raised oral, or what it is like for them being oral.
]Listen to those have and are experiencing it first hand. Perhaps in adding my own story along with all the D/deafies that have already shared, it will help enlighten you to why Bebonang and many of us react the way we do.
]
I was one of those 'oral successes' who spent my whole life 'pretending' I was hearing. I was born severely deaf into an all-hearing family. Cluelessly, my family put my 'deaf accent' and heavy lisp down to cute 'baby talk'. Before I was old enough to go to school, my mother would read us stories often. From the pictures in the book and watching the movements of my mother's mouth, I soon figured the letters on the page meant something. My mother paid a lot of attention to my diction as I was growing up. At the age of 7, I remember that I was reading from a school reader, I was at my desk, while others were taking turns to read out loud in front of the class. As I read quietly at my desk, I came to realize that the way I was speaking was not matching up with what was on the page. There were too many letter combinations that I didn't know. I began to relearn how to speak, I would go home and ask my mother how to say it. When diagnosed at age 11, I was told that if I wore hearing aids I would do fine in mainstream school, if I also got speech-therapy after school. I was never told about the Deaf community or sign language, I didn't know they even existed. So, I carried on trying to be as 'hearing' as I could be, without any accomodations, apart from sitting in front of class. My residual hearing is that of very low sounds and I can hear only the vowels in speech. So, it is a constant guessing game to make sense of the babble. It is only by reading and 'piecing together the puzzle' and filling in the missing gaps of letters, that I can make any sense of what is being said. Speech therapy was extremely hard work of constant drills and exercises, and it doesn't stop after a few years, it is a constant effort for the rest of your life. It is extremely tiring as has been mentioned. I stopped speech classes after a year, but I had my own speech therapist at home, my mother. I managed to do quite well in school because I loved reading. I read a lot. I didn't have friends. I usually had only one if any. I was teased for 'speaking funny' (even after all the speech therapy. I was laughed at when I mis-heard something. Those stories are endless because they don't just stop at school. When I was 13, I was thrilled when VCRs came out because I had the ability to play and replay the videos over and over so I finally got the full story plot. When CCs came out, I realized just how much I was missing. Now they are a must. It was ingrained in me from a small child that being dhh was looked down on by society. So, I didn't let on that I couldn't hear. I mastered bluffing and lip reading and the whole guessing game. It was a constant effort and hard work to keep up this pretense but it was shameful to tell people the truth, and they on the most part didn't understand anyway. My vocational training as it turned out was public speaking, a teacher and public relations. So I became one of the 'oral successes'. I thought I had mastered the guise of being hearing, until 3 years ago, I had a 'wake up call'. An incident happened in which I came to realize that nothing had changed, all that hard work in keeping up that facade was for nothing. Even to this day, I will come across people who will ridicule me and abase me for something that I had tried so hard to hide and suppress. I was sick of trying to be someone I could never be, why work so hard day in and day out when it wasn't working anyway. That's when I found AllDeaf and I began to embrace my Deaf identity. I am no longer ashamed of who I am. I now have made the choice, which had been deprived from me as I grew up, to learn my native language - sign language. I am now refusing to be oral because it is easier for me not to be. My throat is no longer sore and the heavy weight in my chest from all the effort of talking is gone. I am Deaf - and proud of it.
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