Can you tell me about oral successes?

You describe an "oral success" in terms of "faking", "pretending" and "acting." In this video, Sophie is a deaf actor pretending to be a hearing actor who is pretending to be deaf: Deaf Faker. Episode 1. Sophie Woolley - YouTube

Wow! Did you see what she said in the fourth episode, when she said, "I'd try to get back to a... erm, a more... primal way of being that, that we seem... to have lost as... as homo sapiens become more civilized ... and developed speech?" She is the first person in the world to have understood my perspective without my having to explain it to her. That is what I am, a cave woman (I didn't grow up in a cave, but I did live in a relatively undeveloped way with a very small vocabulary for a much longer time than is normally allowed in modern civilization, and I remember nearly all of this time frame, which was from about 2 and a half until 7 and a half, when I was finally found to be deaf). What she said is about me. That is how I am with people. It seems that my ideal partner would be someone who understands this, or in another uncivilized or natural world, would be someone who could simply read my emotional cues, and I do the same of hers, and we interact in that uncivilized state, where there is no language, never mind the trappings of civilization that stands in between us. I think that the reason I have so much trouble with dating is because I don't use civilized "social interfaces" like the average person exposed at a young age does. I don't dress the "right way," I don't do the "right things," and I don't say the things that are expected of me, etc. I still exist in that state. I can shut off the amygdala, which has to do with the inner voice that those of us can hear inside our heads, so that it goes silent and I enter a state in which I feel exactly what I did when I was on a camping trip with my parents while I was still lingually-isolated. I would look at my surroundings outside the camping trailer, feel the chill in the late fall air of the evening, and smell the burning of mesquite wood in the campfire. Just as I would have lived 5,000 years ago or longer minus the modern trappings of camping equipment. I received no customs training (except what was visible, such as clothes, toys, but nothing about manners, what to say, not to say, religion, Santa Claus, Halloween, the mental and verbal concepts of modern civilization of the time). I can still remember this very clearly. I can remember the time when I didn't yet know math, how to communicate, tell time, that everything was supposed to have a name, etc. In nearly all people except those with strong memories, this experience is normally very short before the child learns to speak sufficiently, and it is largely forgotten. I didn't get out of this stage until I was 7 and a half.

At first, I thought it was my deafness, and it certainly was a contributing factor that allowed me to exist in this natural state (had I been hearing surrounded by people who didn't know language yet), but then I thought (and here it is, my coming out right here on alldeaf), it would be my transsexualism. Some of my employer staff know about it, but most don't, so I'm not worried, as I am a protected employee under the company's nondiscrimination policy. Anyway, it is another contributing factor. I don't want to do the things men do to court women, because it doesn't feel right to me, though I love women. Again, just a contributing factor, but not the whole answer. It is the fact that I lived in a linguistically-isolated state, and it is the most comfortable state for me because it's what I developed in during that critical stage in my childhood.

Once I understood this clearly, it began to make sense why I view a lot of things in society as requiring effort. It seems like work, like "Why do I hafta do this??? Le'e me alone!" (slams door hard) I have a natural tendency to pulling back from many things, drumming included (because it feels just like pre-school to me - why, why??? I want to play with my toys or simply watch things happen around me! What is this black stuff on thin white things??? [except that I wondered what was this, what I later learned was text on white paper once I learned how to read, without having the words to ask, "What is this?" but this emotional state I had when I saw something I didn't understand and wondered what it was, like food I had never seen before in a store or a restaurant]) I have this natural tendency to pull back, to retreat to a state of simply being and doing things only I want to do. What Sophie is saying is that we have forgotten how to "simply be."

I'm going to dig up her contact info and share this with her, because she may not know of people like myself.
 
Hearing people have no idea how EXHAUSTING it is to speak & listen if you are hoh or deaf!!

That is what I have had to educate my supervisors on in my quest for stocking shifts. Because I was constantly tired from what is probably about 12 hours of lip-reading total out of a week of 23 hours on the floor, I was becoming demoralized and wanted to run, hide from people. I didn't want to socialize with coworkers because I was too tired. As soon as I got off the floor for a break, I felt this strong urge to do something besides lip-read people. It was like, "There's too many people, too many people!" I wanted to go hide and find cave people like me. I finally gave in and had to explain my request to them, and they realized that it became an accommodations issue and made the adjustment in my work schedule for me. If this store had been half the size it was, sales-volume-wise, I would have had to resign. One coworker became curious about this change, and I explained to her why lip-reading is exhausting (just as I said further up in the thread). Just like you said, she had no idea what it was like for me and understood a lot better what it was like for me.
 
RandomHearie, what planet are you from? You are asking too many questions.

We could not hear the sounds or if someone who lose their hearing could not hear the sounds would talk funny voices. But to clearly talk like hearing people, that is far fetched idea that we never could talk normally like hearing people talk. We are not fakers if we carry the sounds clearly but that is rare. I think that only for hard of hearing or mild hearing loss people that can make the sounds clearly, not all of them.

I don't like too many questions you constantly had to asked every member that you bombard. You are ignorant, did you know that? Geeze
 
I have my hunch here, but I'll hold off posting it.

I'm thinking African-American who's had a hard time with prejudice and sees being Black in this society as a disability?? I know it sounds crazy, but that's what popped into my wacky head.
 
I have my hunch here, but I'll hold off posting it.

If you mean Asperger's, I have it too, and I don't really count it as much more than social awkwardness...

It isn't at all comparable to being deaf.
 
I'm thinking African-American who's had a hard time with prejudice and sees being Black in this society as a disability?? I know it sounds crazy, but that's what popped into my wacky head.

I find it interesting you think that way.
 
If you mean Asperger's, I have it too, and I don't really count it as much more than social awkwardness...

It isn't at all comparable to being deaf.

No, of course it's not comparable. Maybe similar in some ways, but DEFINITELY not anywhere close to the same.

But yeah, I was thinking maybe Asperger's and maybe deafness is their special interest? (Or maybe not. Evaluators thought it was mine, and they were way off. :P)
 
I find it interesting you think that way.

I guess it's because he or she used the word "minority" enough times to put the idea in my head, and even though the word doesn't mean AA, it just popped into my head and I said it. Nothing more interesting than that. I don't think a certain way.
 
Watch the PBS documentary "Through Deaf Eyes" (also on Netflix). There are several 'oral successes' there with varying kinds of voices. That will give you an idea.
 
What do oral "successes" sound like?

My voice is "pretty good", but since I haven't had speech training since grade school, it's been getting sloppier in recent years. Maybe I need to go in again and get a "touch-up" speech session.

Do they have noticeable accents? If you're good at talking, do people ask you where you're from? Do they think you have some kind of cognitive impairment? Or do they pretend not to notice anything?

Reactions I have had:
1) They think I'm from a foreign country
2) They often ask where I'm from
3) I suspect many pretend not to notice
4) Sometimes people snicker and make fun of it. Not to my face, usually.

How well can lipreading work? Assuming you're really good at it, what does that mean? Does it mean you can carry on a normal conversation? Are there specific words or sounds that make that harder? And would you be able to figure out if someone whose lips you were trying to read was actually speaking some other language that you didn't understand?

I picked up lipreading on my own, I was not taught lipreading. There are certain sound-lip shapes which are easier to decipher. I depend heavily on context to make sense of the lip-shape. I also depend on sound. Without the hearing I do have, my lipreading goes to crap. Without lipreading, the hearing I have is much less effective. And of course, the visual context.

I grew up reading a lot, so what happens when I'm trying to understand someone speaking, is that I sort of visualize words popping into my mind. Litterally printing out like a sentence. And there are a lot of gaps, because a lot of it I don't hear and don't immediately understand. As people keep speaking, or more detail comes into the context (perhaps they point at something, or I remember something they told me before that plugs into it, or something I read that plugs into it...) it fills in the empty spaces in the sentence/paragraph I'm visualizing.

It is still very hit and miss though. There is no guarantee of understanding with lipreading. And it's hardwork, very tiring and exhausting, and honestly, I can't believe they made me go through K-12, and college on lipreading alone.

And do people who were raised oral ever decide to learn ASL and become part of the Deaf community? Is that odd, or does it happen a lot? Are they well-received if they do?

I'm finishing my final year of college, and once I get settled into a job, etc, I am going to focus hard on learning ASL. I really, really, really want to have a real group conversation where I can understand everything being said. I've never had that experience among hearies.

I think I've been accepted in the local deaf community. At least, no one has been rude enough to say, "You're not welcome here!" Some have been surprised by my oral and lipreading skills, but it seems they are still accepting for the most part. I think the big thing is to learn ASL to learn the language of the community. One cannot really be part of a community if they don't bother to learn the language.
 
Bebonang, I'm sorry that I upset you. Thank you for telling me. I'll shut up now.

You shouldn't feel that you have to "shut up now" or stop asking questions just because of one poster. I f she doesn't like your questions, then she can use the ignore feature and not be so stressed out!

Questioning is one of the best ways to learn.

Feel free to come to the ci section and ask your questions!

BTW did you visit cochlear implant online, the link ciavmom gave you? If not, you really should if you truly are interested in seeing and hearing how well some deaf individuals communicate orally.

Rick
 
@DeafBadger...I can relate to your post about my brain taking awhile figuring out the word. It is not instant at all. If someone wants to know how hard lipreading is, try it. I had my husband do this over dinner and he gave up after the second sentence. I definitely need to know what the topic is, or I am totally lost.
 
You shouldn't feel that you have to "shut up now" or stop asking questions just because of one poster. I f she doesn't like your questions, then she can use the ignore feature and not be so stressed out!

Questioning is one of the best ways to learn.

Feel free to come to the ci section and ask your questions!

BTW did you visit cochlear implant online, the link ciavmom gave you? If not, you really should if you truly are interested in seeing and hearing how well some deaf individuals communicate orally.

Rick

Phfft! That is why you never listen to anyone who are deaf and hard of hearing. You just want your way to make us suffer more. You have the misconception and so is RandomHearie. That is why it need to stop this ridiculous questions that he don't understand nothing about us. It is making us being turn off from that.
 
Rick, it may surprise you but MANY of us who use ASL were ALSO orally trained. Yes, some kids can speak really well...........but why the HELL should that be their only "tool in their toolbox?" Why are oralist and auditory verbalists SO obessed with making dhh kids sound exactly like hearing kids?
What you're saying basicly is " look how NORMAL these hearing impaired kids function! They don't have abnormal voices or use "abnormal" methods like *gasp* speechreading and or Cued Speech or ASL. They are NORMAL!
 
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