RR just showed me the video, to be honest It's very hard to see, since there's alot of guards around the boy, and I do see some kicking and alot of movement too....U could be right Taylor, but only God know what happened that day, and it doesn't show the whole video how it first started only part of it where the quards were all around him, and that's the only part it was showing.....Like I said, this is a very confusing story, it could be more to the story than what is telling here, and the video only shows half of it, and still I find it a bit hard to believe this is how it happened in the begining....
Boy at Boot Camp Died "Naturally"
- Thread starter Nancy
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Yes I agree with you on this. The video didn't show the whole thing and it was a bit hard to see.^Angel^ said:
I wonder if there was a whole video made so it can show some proof whether or not that boy was really beaten up or not.
Edit: I just re read the story. It says the tape was 1 hour and 20 minutes long so the video that we just saw in here is not of the whole thing.
Roadrunner
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At least we all can safely say it's not another 'Rodney King' version of getting beaten up.... 
I can see some of the 'finer points' that Taylor brought to attention with the video...clearly from his 'police' point of view, it would be a bit easier for him to relate what is actually happening...then again, having more video (to see) to derive from such conclusions may help us perceive what really did happen....therefore, with that in mind, I cannot really feel at ease to safely say this or that (to make such a conclusion or assumption) with the facts being poorly presented in the video.
{edit: oh great, now Butterflygirl just mentioned the whole version is 80 minutes long...now, that could very well change what we do perceive and assume may have took place than what is being shown on the shorter verison. }
I can see some of the 'finer points' that Taylor brought to attention with the video...clearly from his 'police' point of view, it would be a bit easier for him to relate what is actually happening...then again, having more video (to see) to derive from such conclusions may help us perceive what really did happen....therefore, with that in mind, I cannot really feel at ease to safely say this or that (to make such a conclusion or assumption) with the facts being poorly presented in the video.
{edit: oh great, now Butterflygirl just mentioned the whole version is 80 minutes long...now, that could very well change what we do perceive and assume may have took place than what is being shown on the shorter verison. }
Yeah same here Butterfly Girl, I rather to see the whole video before I believe anything that the guards are really telling us, beside the story you posted up above says " They were viewing the 1-hour, 20-minute tape at their lawyer's office "....The video I watched with RR wasn't 1 hour and 20 mins, so it means there more in the video than what it showing us....
Taylor
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Maybe my opinion would change if we could view the whole tape. Since the version we all originally saw was from a news organization, I'm thinking we may have all seen what there is to see, but who knows as there could be more going on (I'd like to see the whole thing).
I know when I went through the police academy, we were taught to subdue and restrain somebody with the least possible amount of injury. Sometimes when people decide to fight, they do get hurt (just as a boxer or wrestler would...you bound to get hurt in a fight). I do recognize some of what those guards were doing as methods of restraint. What you can't see in the video is if those guards were doing it properly...and arm bar can restrain a subject but applied improperly it can break an arm or cause injury...the picture is just not that close up.
I found some pictures from some classes I took awhile back that shows joint manipulation. Its me and co-workers training together.... I need to shrink them down a bit but will post them at some point.
I know when I went through the police academy, we were taught to subdue and restrain somebody with the least possible amount of injury. Sometimes when people decide to fight, they do get hurt (just as a boxer or wrestler would...you bound to get hurt in a fight). I do recognize some of what those guards were doing as methods of restraint. What you can't see in the video is if those guards were doing it properly...and arm bar can restrain a subject but applied improperly it can break an arm or cause injury...the picture is just not that close up.
I found some pictures from some classes I took awhile back that shows joint manipulation. Its me and co-workers training together.... I need to shrink them down a bit but will post them at some point.
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I am glad to have Taylor around here... 
I re-view the video again after read Taylor´s post... Yes I has to agree with Taylor... but it´s short movie... Its hard to say either a boy was being abused by them... I wish video should be longer...
I re-view the video again after read Taylor´s post... Yes I has to agree with Taylor... but it´s short movie... Its hard to say either a boy was being abused by them... I wish video should be longer...
Taylor said:
I can really understand what you and the other officers were taught to do in a situation like this, I might changed my opinion as well too once I see the whole video and you may be right, there may be nothing to see , if there was something that bad enough on the video , they might have shown it.....
I'm glad you're here, cause hearing a view from a police officer like yourself does count!
...Thanks for explaining everything..
pek1
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Liebling:-))) said:I am glad to have Taylor around here...
I re-view the video again after read Taylor´s post... Yes I has to agree with Taylor... but it´s short movie... Its hard to say either a boy was being abused by them... I wish video should be longer...
Liebling,
With due respect to Taylor, police officers are taught (mostly o-j-t) how to beat a suspect in such a way that if they claimed "police brutality," it would not hold up in court because of no signs of injury. The cops in Minneapolis, Minnesota are renouned for beating their suspects, so that's nothing new. Now, as a journalist, I saw the still shots and they are very blurred. I see five caucasian cops standing around as if to cheer on the others. If I were reporting this story, I would want to interview each of the officers in that picture before any of them can tip off their union steward about a reporter asking questions.
By MITCH STACY
Associated Press Writer
TAMPA, Fla. (AP) -- A noted pathologist said Tuesday that results from a second autopsy seem to indicate a 14-year-old boy died from a beating by guards captured on videotape at a juvenile boot camp, not from a blood disorder as a medical examiner initially ruled.
"My opinion is that he died because of what you see in the videotape," said Dr. Michael Baden, who was hired by the boy's family, referring to a surveillance tape showing guards kicking and punching Martin Lee Anderson's limp body the day before he died.
After seeing the videotape, the boy's parents agreed to have his body exhumed and asked Baden to observe a second autopsy.
"I'm just glad the truth is out," Anderson's mother, Gina Jones, said Tuesday. "But I already knew what the truth was. Now that the truth is out, and I want justice. I want the guards and the nurse to be arrested."
Baden, who was hired by the boy's family, said it would be several weeks before the medical examiner in charge of the second autopsy, Hillsborough County Medical Examiner Dr. Vernard Adams, determines the exact cause of death because tissue samples must be analyzed and other evidence considered.
But Baden said it was clear that Anderson did not die from sickle cell trait.
Dr. Charles Siebert, who made that initial ruling after Anderson's death Jan. 6, was present at the second autopsy and may end up changing his ruling, said Baden, who reviewed medical evidence in the slaying of civil rights leaders Medgar Evers and the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.
"I think he made a mistake," Baden said.
Siebert did not immediately return a call seeking comment Tuesday.
Hillsborough State Attorney Mark Ober is investigating the case and has said he will not discuss the autopsy until the investigation is complete.
The U.S. Attorney's office in Tallahassee and the U.S. Justice Department's Civil Rights Division also have opened an investigation into Anderson's death. No guards have been arrested or fired, but the camp, operated by the Bay County Sheriff's Office, has been closed.
Civil rights leaders who rallied to support Anderson's parents said they hoped the case would lead to reforms.
"He was a microcosm of many young Andersons sitting in boot camps and detention centers across the state of Florida," said Sevell C. Brown, state president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
Anderson entered the camp for a probation violation for trespassing at a school after he and his cousins were charged with stealing their grandmother's car from a church parking lot. He was in his first day at the boot camp when he collapsed during exercises and then was seen on the tape being struck and kicked by several guards.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BOOT_CAMP?SITE=ALTAL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Associated Press Writer
TAMPA, Fla. (AP) -- A noted pathologist said Tuesday that results from a second autopsy seem to indicate a 14-year-old boy died from a beating by guards captured on videotape at a juvenile boot camp, not from a blood disorder as a medical examiner initially ruled.
"My opinion is that he died because of what you see in the videotape," said Dr. Michael Baden, who was hired by the boy's family, referring to a surveillance tape showing guards kicking and punching Martin Lee Anderson's limp body the day before he died.
After seeing the videotape, the boy's parents agreed to have his body exhumed and asked Baden to observe a second autopsy.
"I'm just glad the truth is out," Anderson's mother, Gina Jones, said Tuesday. "But I already knew what the truth was. Now that the truth is out, and I want justice. I want the guards and the nurse to be arrested."
Baden, who was hired by the boy's family, said it would be several weeks before the medical examiner in charge of the second autopsy, Hillsborough County Medical Examiner Dr. Vernard Adams, determines the exact cause of death because tissue samples must be analyzed and other evidence considered.
But Baden said it was clear that Anderson did not die from sickle cell trait.
Dr. Charles Siebert, who made that initial ruling after Anderson's death Jan. 6, was present at the second autopsy and may end up changing his ruling, said Baden, who reviewed medical evidence in the slaying of civil rights leaders Medgar Evers and the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.
"I think he made a mistake," Baden said.
Siebert did not immediately return a call seeking comment Tuesday.
Hillsborough State Attorney Mark Ober is investigating the case and has said he will not discuss the autopsy until the investigation is complete.
The U.S. Attorney's office in Tallahassee and the U.S. Justice Department's Civil Rights Division also have opened an investigation into Anderson's death. No guards have been arrested or fired, but the camp, operated by the Bay County Sheriff's Office, has been closed.
Civil rights leaders who rallied to support Anderson's parents said they hoped the case would lead to reforms.
"He was a microcosm of many young Andersons sitting in boot camps and detention centers across the state of Florida," said Sevell C. Brown, state president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
Anderson entered the camp for a probation violation for trespassing at a school after he and his cousins were charged with stealing their grandmother's car from a church parking lot. He was in his first day at the boot camp when he collapsed during exercises and then was seen on the tape being struck and kicked by several guards.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BOOT_CAMP?SITE=ALTAL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Doctor: Boot Camp Teen Likely Suffocated
By BILL KACZOR
Associated Press Writer
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) -- A teen who died after guards punched and kicked him at a boot camp likely was suffocated during the confrontation and was brain dead when he was brought to a hospital, a pathologist told lawmakers Friday.
Dr. Michael Baden observed the second autopsy performed on 14-year-old Martin Lee Anderson on Monday in Tampa. He was there on behalf of Anderson's family, who disputes the original autopsy, which found the boy died of complications of sickle cell trait, a usually benign blood disorder many blacks have.
Speaking by telephone from New York, Baden told the House Criminal Justice Committee that Anderson did not die of natural causes.
"He can't breathe, he can't get oxygen," he said. "When he leaves on that stretcher, he's already mostly brain dead."
Surveillance-camera videotape of the altercation at the Panama City boot camp has led some legislators and others to call for the closure of juvenile boot camps. A prosecutor is investigating.
Anderson collapsed while doing exercises during his first day at the camp. The Bay County sheriff's office, which runs the camp, has said the guards were trying to get him to participate after he became uncooperative.
Baden said someone pressed on Anderson's back while he was on the ground - which could have kept him from breathing - and that a guard could be seen holding a hand over the boy's mouth.
"They did that, according to their report, so that he could inhale the ammonia that they were forcing up his nose" to revive him, Baden said.
He said hospital reports showed that an emergency room monitor indicated severe brain damage when he arrived.
Committee chairman Gus Barreiro said he wants Dr. Charles Siebert, who conducted the first autopsy, to appear before the panel.
Siebert, medical examiner for the district that includes Panama City, issued a statement Thursday saying, "I stand behind my findings." He added, however, that he welcomed "the opportunity to review the findings and conclusions of the second autopsy."
Siebert also said it's not unheard of for medical experts to come to different conclusions after reviewing the same case. He complained he has been subject to "baseless and mean-spirited accusations from special interest groups" calling for everything from revoking his license to criminal charges.
Siebert and Baden attended the second autopsy conducted by Dr. Vernard Adams, the district medical examiner in Tampa. Also there was Hillsborough County State Attorney Mark Ober, who was appointed by Gov. Jeb Bush to investigate the death.
No guards have been arrested or fired. The camp no longer houses any juveniles and is being closed.
Baden told the committee it may be several weeks before official results of the second autopsy are released. Tissue samples from the body are still undergoing laboratory tests.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BOOT_CAMP_DEATH?SITE=ALTAL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
By BILL KACZOR
Associated Press Writer
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) -- A teen who died after guards punched and kicked him at a boot camp likely was suffocated during the confrontation and was brain dead when he was brought to a hospital, a pathologist told lawmakers Friday.
Dr. Michael Baden observed the second autopsy performed on 14-year-old Martin Lee Anderson on Monday in Tampa. He was there on behalf of Anderson's family, who disputes the original autopsy, which found the boy died of complications of sickle cell trait, a usually benign blood disorder many blacks have.
Speaking by telephone from New York, Baden told the House Criminal Justice Committee that Anderson did not die of natural causes.
"He can't breathe, he can't get oxygen," he said. "When he leaves on that stretcher, he's already mostly brain dead."
Surveillance-camera videotape of the altercation at the Panama City boot camp has led some legislators and others to call for the closure of juvenile boot camps. A prosecutor is investigating.
Anderson collapsed while doing exercises during his first day at the camp. The Bay County sheriff's office, which runs the camp, has said the guards were trying to get him to participate after he became uncooperative.
Baden said someone pressed on Anderson's back while he was on the ground - which could have kept him from breathing - and that a guard could be seen holding a hand over the boy's mouth.
"They did that, according to their report, so that he could inhale the ammonia that they were forcing up his nose" to revive him, Baden said.
He said hospital reports showed that an emergency room monitor indicated severe brain damage when he arrived.
Committee chairman Gus Barreiro said he wants Dr. Charles Siebert, who conducted the first autopsy, to appear before the panel.
Siebert, medical examiner for the district that includes Panama City, issued a statement Thursday saying, "I stand behind my findings." He added, however, that he welcomed "the opportunity to review the findings and conclusions of the second autopsy."
Siebert also said it's not unheard of for medical experts to come to different conclusions after reviewing the same case. He complained he has been subject to "baseless and mean-spirited accusations from special interest groups" calling for everything from revoking his license to criminal charges.
Siebert and Baden attended the second autopsy conducted by Dr. Vernard Adams, the district medical examiner in Tampa. Also there was Hillsborough County State Attorney Mark Ober, who was appointed by Gov. Jeb Bush to investigate the death.
No guards have been arrested or fired. The camp no longer houses any juveniles and is being closed.
Baden told the committee it may be several weeks before official results of the second autopsy are released. Tissue samples from the body are still undergoing laboratory tests.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BOOT_CAMP_DEATH?SITE=ALTAL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
F
FreeWoman77
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I have DSL, watched that video didnt see polices beating teenager but pulled him up and put him back, his hand behind his back, looks like teenager already is weak moving 
That video that you saw was only run for about two minutes so it didn't really show the whole incident. The original tape which the boy's family and some others saw was an hour and twenty minutes long.FreeWoman77 said:I have DSL, watched that video didnt see polices beating teenager but pulled him up and put him back, his hand behind his back, looks like teenager already is weak moving
The*Empress
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He was just a kid... they didn't have to beat him like that.
New Autopsy Finds Fla. Teen Was Suffocated
TAMPA, Fla. - A 14-year-old boy kicked and punched by guards at a juvenile boot camp died because the sheriff's officials suffocated him, a medical examiner said Friday, contradicting a colleague who blamed the death on a usually benign blood disorder.
"Martin Anderson's death was caused by suffocation due to actions of the guards at the boot camp," said Dr. Vernard Adams, who conducted the second autopsy.
Adams said the suffocation was caused by hands blocking the boy's mouth, as well as the "forced inhalation of ammonia fumes" that caused his vocal cords to spasm, blocking his upper airway.
Martin Lee Anderson's body was exhumed after a camp surveillance videotape surfaced showing the guards roughing him up Jan. 5, a day before he died. His family had questioned the initial finding by Dr. Charles Siebert, the Bay County Medical Examiner, that the boy died of complications of sickle cell trait.
"I am disturbed by Dr. Adams' findings and consider the actions of the Bay County boot camp guards deplorable," said Gov. Jeb Bush, who ordered the investigation that led to the second autopsy.
In a statement, Bush assured Anderson's parents that the state will provide any resources prosecutors deem necessary "to complete this investigation as quickly as possible."
No one has been arrested in connection with the death, which sparked protests at the state Capitol, forced lawmakers to scrap the military-style camps and led to the resignation of the state's top law enforcement officer.
Anderson's parents planned a news conference Friday evening at their attorney's Tallahassee office to respond to the findings. Marc Tochterman, a spokesman for the Bay County Sheriff's Office, which operated the boot camp, said the agency had no immediate comment.
Siebert did not immediately return a call seeking comment, but he has repeatedly stood by his findings, saying they were based on reliable science, not emotions. He also has said he was being unfairly attacked by special interest groups.
State Attorney General Charlie Crist said Friday that Siebert "should probably be suspended pending further review." He said the second autopsy report wasn't surprising.
"I can't say I'm shocked after having watched the tape. What was surprising was the first autopsy," Crist said. He said there will "probably will be arrests."
The videotape shows Anderson being kneed, struck and dragged by guards on his first day at the Bay County Sheriff's boot camp for juvenile offenders. He was eventually taken to a Pensacola hospital, where he died a few hours later.
The second autopsy was ordered by Hillsborough County State Attorney Mark Ober, whom Bush tapped to lead the investigation.
A forensic pathologist hired by Anderson's family observed the second autopsy, Dr. Michael Baden, said afterward that he believed Anderson didn't die from natural causes.
Siebert's autopsy concluded that physical exertion had triggered sickle cell trait and ultimately caused small blood clots to develop in Anderson's bloodstream, which resulted in internal bleeding.
Anderson had collapsed while doing push-ups, sit-ups, running laps and other exercises that were part of his admission process at the camp. The sheriff's office said force was used on Anderson because he was uncooperative.
He had been sent to the boot camp for violating probation by trespassing at a school after he and his cousins were charged with stealing their grandmother's car from a church parking lot.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060505/ap_on_re_us/boot_camp_death
TAMPA, Fla. - A 14-year-old boy kicked and punched by guards at a juvenile boot camp died because the sheriff's officials suffocated him, a medical examiner said Friday, contradicting a colleague who blamed the death on a usually benign blood disorder.
"Martin Anderson's death was caused by suffocation due to actions of the guards at the boot camp," said Dr. Vernard Adams, who conducted the second autopsy.
Adams said the suffocation was caused by hands blocking the boy's mouth, as well as the "forced inhalation of ammonia fumes" that caused his vocal cords to spasm, blocking his upper airway.
Martin Lee Anderson's body was exhumed after a camp surveillance videotape surfaced showing the guards roughing him up Jan. 5, a day before he died. His family had questioned the initial finding by Dr. Charles Siebert, the Bay County Medical Examiner, that the boy died of complications of sickle cell trait.
"I am disturbed by Dr. Adams' findings and consider the actions of the Bay County boot camp guards deplorable," said Gov. Jeb Bush, who ordered the investigation that led to the second autopsy.
In a statement, Bush assured Anderson's parents that the state will provide any resources prosecutors deem necessary "to complete this investigation as quickly as possible."
No one has been arrested in connection with the death, which sparked protests at the state Capitol, forced lawmakers to scrap the military-style camps and led to the resignation of the state's top law enforcement officer.
Anderson's parents planned a news conference Friday evening at their attorney's Tallahassee office to respond to the findings. Marc Tochterman, a spokesman for the Bay County Sheriff's Office, which operated the boot camp, said the agency had no immediate comment.
Siebert did not immediately return a call seeking comment, but he has repeatedly stood by his findings, saying they were based on reliable science, not emotions. He also has said he was being unfairly attacked by special interest groups.
State Attorney General Charlie Crist said Friday that Siebert "should probably be suspended pending further review." He said the second autopsy report wasn't surprising.
"I can't say I'm shocked after having watched the tape. What was surprising was the first autopsy," Crist said. He said there will "probably will be arrests."
The videotape shows Anderson being kneed, struck and dragged by guards on his first day at the Bay County Sheriff's boot camp for juvenile offenders. He was eventually taken to a Pensacola hospital, where he died a few hours later.
The second autopsy was ordered by Hillsborough County State Attorney Mark Ober, whom Bush tapped to lead the investigation.
A forensic pathologist hired by Anderson's family observed the second autopsy, Dr. Michael Baden, said afterward that he believed Anderson didn't die from natural causes.
Siebert's autopsy concluded that physical exertion had triggered sickle cell trait and ultimately caused small blood clots to develop in Anderson's bloodstream, which resulted in internal bleeding.
Anderson had collapsed while doing push-ups, sit-ups, running laps and other exercises that were part of his admission process at the camp. The sheriff's office said force was used on Anderson because he was uncooperative.
He had been sent to the boot camp for violating probation by trespassing at a school after he and his cousins were charged with stealing their grandmother's car from a church parking lot.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060505/ap_on_re_us/boot_camp_death
Fo'Shizzle
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I would like to see the video could someone pm me the link?
Fo'Shizzle
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Fo'Shizzle
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I def agree with you... she/he didn't watch the video.....humm....TrippLA said:
WhisperHorse
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Wow, sounds bad. That's so crazy..
That's so crazy..
Taylor
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TrippLA said:
Actually, for your information, I did watch the video. What was originally posted here was a truncated version that showed what I stated in my post. It was later said that there was more to the video. I applaud them for doing a second autopsy and am glad that the truth is finally out there.
And while you may doubt that I watched the video, I doubt you actually read my own posts about it and then trying to call me on it.
and then I also posted (and what you quoted without reading what I said):
I've pointed out several times that it should be investigated, but I look at the facts that are presented to me at the time...and the video I watched that was posted here DID NOT show them beating him to death....that video came out later. My posts are based on what I see with my own eyes and the early video showed arm-bars and other restraints. I have said that the death should be investigated completely, and have said elsewhere that if the officers were found to be at fault, then they should be held accountable.
First, you have questioned my integrity by saying that I did not watch the video, but now, I have a question for you.....what does Rodney King have to do with me at all...and what in the hell would possess you to shove that in my face?
And, if you decide to throw it in my face, how about checking your facts...King was speeding from police, and when they tried to stop him, he took off and it turned into a car chase. When they finally got him stopped, he confronted officers and started fighting. (Perhaps you thought it was a DUI because of the times AFTER the incident that he was arrestedf or DUI..or you have it mixed up with the time that he rammed his wife and fled the scene, leading to a hit-and-run charge and arrest..or the seperate time that he was charged with domestic violence against her..or the time that police set up a prostitution sting and he happened to stroll along to pick up a transvestite hooker...and then tried to run down a police officer in that sting...or maybe it was the armed robbery that he committed and was on parole for). Maybe you were thinking of any of those incidents but it was the speeding, fleeing, and then attempting to fight officers that got him into that situation.
With that said, what the LAPD did to him was a horrible act of violence and a violation of his civil rights...and I do not condone that one bit. Some of the officers involved were charged and found guilty and did federal time. I think they should have been found guilty before it going federal (referring to when they were aquitted and the riots that resulted)...but that is the fault of those involved in their trial...I had nothing to do with the beating of Rodney King and I had nothing to do with the aquittal of those officers on the local level in LA..so why would you even mention it to me.
Like I said, it was horrible, but this also wasn't an incident of 3 cops saying 'Hey..there is a black man' and then beating him. It would have already been a fight no matter what those officers did, but the officers took it way too far after the fight was over and they should have been dealt with accordingly. I feel that the sentences that were imposed against those officers were too light and they should have been dealt a harsher sentence (and many more than just the officers convicted).
Why does Rodney King in LA have to do with me being an officer on the east coast and what does it have to do with what is in this story? It didn't have to do with Police Officers from the LAPD.
Earlier tonight I handled an assault call that involved a deaf man...he punched his roommate several times in the face. You mentioning Rodney King here would be similar to me blaming you because you are deaf and a deaf man was involved in the assault. They have nothing to do with one another at all but you seem to think they are related because 2 people have something in common....I put on a badge, therefore I'm responsible for Rodney King...you are deaf so you must be partly responsible for crimes that other deaf people do...right?
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