Article : vocabulary growth in toddlers

[neecy]

Cloggy brought up children being able to hear with HAs and I am a HA user..I am aware that HAs amplify sounds.

Some people can hear with a HA. I wasn't one of them. However when I went to NTID, my boyfriend at the time could use the phone, and even worked for Campus Safety driving the night bus around and had to communicate with the dispatcher over a CB radio - and yet he was "deaf enough" to attend NTID. There are so many different types of deafness out there.

 

[jillio]

Re-read my post if you are capable of that - I never said MY experience is the same as Lotte's - I said I would HOPE it was the same!! If you can't understand that kind of commentary on this board there's no sense even trying to argue with you - as Cloggy said - when there isn't anything for you to really debate you resort to nit-picking.

I can't even share a personal experience, and SAY its a personal experience without you coming up with something to complain about - do you have it out for me for some reason, or are you simply trying to find something, ANYTHING, to dispute?

You're welcome to go through life with your head stuck in the sand, but there are parents here (such as Cloggy's daughter) shown on this forum who have shown where children have acquired spoken language after being implanted. Every time something good is mentioned about a CI -implanted child, you, or Shel immediately retort "but its not that way with everybody!" - Do you require that every single positive post about CI's have an asterisk beside it with the warning "this might not happen to everybody" ?

NOTHING in this world is 100%. Nobody has ever claimed anything with CI's is 100%. CI's work in conjunction with the amount of effort put into it. If a parent has a child implanted with the belief that they won't have to WORK with the child to help them acquire language, that all they have to do is sit back and the CI will do all the work, they're in for a rude awakening.

CI is a TOOL. Like any tool, its there make things a bit easier, but you still have to WORK with it.

First of all, where did the reference to Lotte come from? I was referring tothe article. Jumping to a few conclusions here aren't you?

And the fact of the matter is, it isn't that way for everyone. And you cannot compare your experience to any prelingually deafended child or adult, because the issues of language acquisition are not the same. Which is another reson this post does not belong in the CI forum. It has nothing to do with language acquisition, and language acquisition is dependent upon many more variable thatn whether a person is a CI user or not. You are discussing speech discrimination with CI, not language acquisition.

 

[Cloggy]

Cloggy brought up children being able to hear with HAs and I am a HA user..I am aware that HAs amplify sounds.

Of course you can hear with a HA.... otherwise ... what's the point of using one ??

 

[jillio]

I've not called names or gotten nasty. I have banged my head against the desk a few times in frustration though.

I still say that there is NOTHING wrong with discussing language acquisition along with CI's in children in this forum. If you don't want to read it you don't have to! The fact that several people have been posting about language acquisition with relation to the original topic here shows that they thing it has merit as well. I'm sorry this topic isn't up to whatever standard you have, but I am not sorry for having made it.

Did I say you, neecy? Why are you CIers so defensive? And if you want to discuss language acquisition as it relates to CI that's fine. But post the proper reference. Because this does not apply to CI, it applies to hearing children. To post misleading articles in a CI forum is to mislead any new parent that might be in here looking for answers. You are not providing them with accurate information, but with totally irrelevant, misleading information. And all of you claim that it is your intention to be available to those parents considereing CI so that they may have somewhere to turn for information. If you are going to take on that responsibility, then you also assume the responsibility for providing accurate information.

 

[Cloggy]

.................. You are discussing speech discrimination with CI, not language acquisition.

Isn't being able to hear a requisite for speech discrimination???? and wouldn't labguage aquisition be part of that proces...????

Aren't twe two connected...

 

[jillio]

Of course you can hear with a HA.... otherwise ... what's the point of using one ??

There you go taking things out of context again. Waht shel said was that she had sound perception with an HA, but that didn't make her hearing.

 

[jillio]

Isn't being able to hear a requisite for speech discrimination???? and wouldn't labguage aquisition be part of that proces...????

Aren't twe two connected...

Nope. Language acquisiton can be accomplished without speech discrimination. Speech discrimination is only an issue when you are limiting language to spoken language only.

 

[Cloggy]

Did I say you, neecy? Why are you CIers so defensive? And if you want to discuss language acquisition as it relates to CI that's fine. But post the proper reference. Because this does not apply to CI, it applies to hearing children. To post misleading articles in a CI forum is to mislead any new parent that might be in here looking for answers. You are not providing them with accurate information, but with totally irrelevant, misleading information. And all of you claim that it is your intention to be available to those parents considereing CI so that they may have somewhere to turn for information. If you are going to take on that responsibility, then you also assume the responsibility for providing accurate information.

There's nothing misleading about posting the article in this forum. It's all information, and whoever reads it will be able to handle it...
Not everyone needs a fixed box for every item.
A knive in the fork-section can still be used for dinner..

And Jillio, when are you goint to provide some useful information?

 

[Cloggy]

Originally Posted by Cloggy
Isn't being able to hear a requisite for speech discrimination???? and wouldn't language aquisition be part of that process...????

Aren't twe two connected...

Nope. Language acquisiton can be accomplished without speech discrimination. Speech discrimination is only an issue when you are limiting language to spoken language only.

I wasn't talking about language aquisition, I was talking about speech discrimination....
Do try to focus !!

 

[jillio]

There's nothing misleading about posting the article in this forum. It's all information, and whoever reads it will be able to handle it...
Not everyone needs a fixed box for every item.
A knive in the fork-section can still be used for dinner..

And Jillio, when are you goint to provide some useful information?

Yes, cloggy, it is misleading simply because it is an article about language acquisition in HEARING children posted in a thread about CI. HEARING children do not have CIs, DEAF children do. And language acquisition in hearing children does not relate tothe issues of language acquisition in deaf children. And this is exactly what I am talking about when I say that you and others like you try to convince parents of deaf children that CI will cure their child's deafness. You do so by implication and misleading inforamtion. That is unconscionable, and it serves to harm not only those deaf children, but the parents that are looking for inforamtion.

 

[Cloggy]

Yes, cloggy, it is misleading simply because it is an article about language acquisition in HEARING children posted in a thread about CI. HEARING children do not have CIs, DEAF children do. And language acquisition in hearing children does not relate tothe issues of language acquisition in deaf children. And this is exactly what I am talking about when I say that you and others like you try to convince parents of deaf children that CI will cure their child's deafness. You do so by implication and misleading inforamtion. That is unconscionable, and it serves to harm not only those deaf children, but the parents that are looking for inforamtion.

Nope, deaf children with CI have the opportunity to hear, and follow the same road as children that hear naturally.
Nothing misleading.... Lotte is going through the same stages as a naturally hearing child. with a couple of years delay..

As the parent of a deaf child with CI that can hear, I am very happy that Neecy posted the article. And in this thread...

NOW,
Can you get off Shel's pony and make a real, positive contribution to Neecy's thread??

 

[Cloggy]

For those who forgot about the topic of this thread...

I found this article on Digg.com (its originally from Why Toddlers' Vocabulary Grows Quickly )

Why Toddlers' Vocabulary Grows Quickly
Repetition, Challenging Words May Lead to Boom in Toddlers' Vocabulary
By Miranda Hitti
WebMD Medical News
Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD

Aug. 3, 2007 -- Children's vocabulary often booms in the second year of life, and new research may show how that happens.

Bob McMurray, PhD, of the University of Iowa's psychology department tackled the topic of toddlers' talk. He didn't chat with kids or their parents. Instead, McMurray created a mathematical model to identify the factors that prompt kids' word spurts.

McMurray considered the 2,000 most frequently spoken words of the English language. The list includes easy words and more challenging ones.

McMurray theorizes that there's a tipping point at which children's vocabulary typically takes off.

According to McMurray, kids don't necessarily reach that tipping point by learning one word, then the next, and then another. Rather, it's a matter of learning a mix of words at once -- including simple and not-so-simple words -- and repeating them.

"Children are going to get that word spurt guaranteed, mathematically, as long as a couple of conditions hold," Murray says in a University of Iowa news release.

"They have to be learning more than one word at a time, and they must be learning a greater number of difficult or moderate words than easy ones," McMurray explains. "Using computer simulations and a mathematical analysis, I found that if those two conditions are true, you always get a vocabulary explosion."

McMurray's findings appear in an article in the journal Science.

SOURCES: McMurray, B. Science, Aug. 3, 2007; vol 317: p 631. News release, University of Iowa. News release, Science.

I think this would hold true that children implanted before the "tipping point" occurs would then develop a broader vocabulary than those implanted after.

Regardless its a fascinating peek inside the science of how language may be acquired.

 

[neecy]

Just because the ARTICLE doesn't mention CI's specifically, *I* said I thought it would hold true for those who had CI's as well. Is that not sufficient to allow it to be posted in this section of the forum? After all if we're discussing CI's as well (as that's what my intention was when making the original post) shouldn't it be in the CI section? If I posted it in the other section they'd probably say "why not move this to the CI section so other parents of CI implanted children can read it also?"

If you're so upset that this article was posted here then ask a moderator what they think- but in all honesty I still believe I wasn't out of bounds for making the original post. Alex - what do you think?

 

[momtotoes]

Great article, Neecy!

It is too bad I had to slog through three pages of arguments to get to say that, though.



I am printing it and adding it to my files about language development. And I am also keeping it in mind when I find myself speaking solely in one syllable words to Toes.

 

[jillio]

Aren't twe two connected...



I wasn't talking about language aquisition, I was talking about speech discrimination....
Do try to focus !!

You asked the question. I answered it. And this article is talking about language acquisition. It does not mention speech discrimination because it is an article about hearing children. For a hearing child, speech discrimination in language acquisition is not an issue. And you made the assumption that the two are connected. They are not, unless you are talking about a deaf child learning language through oral methods alone.

 

[jillio]

Just because the ARTICLE doesn't mention CI's specifically, *I* said I thought it would hold true for those who had CI's as well. Is that not sufficient to allow it to be posted in this section of the forum? After all if we're discussing CI's as well (as that's what my intention was when making the original post) shouldn't it be in the CI section? If I posted it in the other section they'd probably say "why not move this to the CI section so other parents of CI implanted children can read it also?"

If you're so upset that this article was posted here then ask a moderator what they think- but in all honesty I still believe I wasn't out of bounds for making the original post. Alex - what do you think?

And, that assumption was addressed in the very first post I made. No, it does not apply to children with CIs because it is not about children with CIs. If you want to make a more realistic comparison, you could make a comparison to deaf children of deaf parents who acquire sign in the same way that a hearing child of hearing parents acquires spoken English. I don't mean to be rude, neecy, but the developmental issues and language acquisition issues of deaf children with CIs are simply not comparable to hearing children in this way. Not are they comparable to the success rates of adults who are adventitiously deafened and are using CI because they have acquired spoken language as a hearing child. Therefore, the issues related to their CI success is only one of discrimination, not language acquisition.

 

[jillio]

Nope, deaf children with CI have the opportunity to hear, and follow the same road as children that hear naturally.
Nothing misleading.... Lotte is going through the same stages as a naturally hearing child. with a couple of years delay..

As the parent of a deaf child with CI that can hear, I am very happy that Neecy posted the article. And in this thread...

NOW,
Can you get off Shel's pony and make a real, positive contribution to Neecy's thread??

You just keep believing that cloggy. It is truly a shame when one simply refuses to learn.

And, I will ride shel's pony until she tells me to get off. Once agian, you have started the mud slinging, but will be the first to criticize when someone responds in kind. Why do you have such a problem with answering a question in a reasonable intelligent manner without resorting to insult to deflect attention from the issue?

 

[rick48]

Did I say your name? U assumed that I was talking about u. Next time, ask who I was referring to when I made that comment. It is possible that I wasnt thinking of u. Thank u.

If you actually read my post then you would have known that it was I talking about you.

 

[shel90]

Some people can hear with a HA. I wasn't one of them. However when I went to NTID, my boyfriend at the time could use the phone, and even worked for Campus Safety driving the night bus around and had to communicate with the dispatcher over a CB radio - and yet he was "deaf enough" to attend NTID. There are so many different types of deafness out there.

Yea and? I already know that...

 

[momtotoes]

You just keep believing that cloggy. It is truly a shame when one simply refuses to learn.

I can't believe I am getting sucked into this argument.

But I feel compelled to ask what it is you are suggesting Cloggy shouldn't believe.

Are you saying he shouldn't believe this?:

Nope, deaf children with CI have the opportunity to hear, and follow the same road as children that hear naturally.

Nothing misleading.... Lotte is going through the same stages as a naturally hearing child. with a couple of years delay..

Because if you are, then you have me totally baffled.

Are you saying Cloggy shouldn't believe that his daughter is going through the same stages as a hearing child?

Because if you are... I want to know what makes you think you somehow know more about Lotte and her development than her father does.

I haven't been on AllDeaf for months because whenever I come here it is nothing but the same old arguments.

But this one got to me.

I understand you have your feelings and opinions about CIs. And I know you can substantiate your arguments with various "facts" that are pulled from multiple sources. And that is fine. I don't buy into it... but it is fine if you do.

But, do not question a parent's first hand knowledge of what their child is experiencing and what kind of success they are seeing. Because no matter what "statistical study" either side pulls up, those of us with children who are successful with CIs know more about what they are capable of than any scientist or internet forum "CI expert" knows.

Gah. I can't take this stuff.

I hate to tell you this, but there are FAR MORE successful CI surgeries on children than there are unsuccessful. That is fact. If it is so hard for you to accept, then fine. Don't accept it.

Gah. GAH.