Armed group take over Oregon wildlife refuge

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Foxrac said:
Just curious - you seems much agree with them.
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How do you figure I agree with them? I haven't said anything in regards to agreeing with them, or disagreeing with them.
 
Steinhauer said:
How do you figure I agree with them? I haven't said anything in regards to agreeing with them, or disagreeing with them.
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You share much same belief with them - they hate federal government, including Obama.
 
Foxrac said:
You share much same belief with them - they hate federal government, including Obama.
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Are you attempting to portray anyone who disagrees with this President as a terrorist? :giggle:

No, I do not agree with them. They are trespassing and need to leave peacefully. The family they came to protect don't even want them there.

I am sure the Federal Government attempted to bully this family off their property, but that can be handled by the courts.
 
Steinhauer said:
Are you attempting to portray anyone who disagrees with this President as a terrorist? :giggle:

No, I do not agree with them. They are trespassing and need to leave peacefully. The family they came to protect don't even want them there.
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Jiro claims about terrorist is opinion and I'm not label you as terrorist. :lol:

That's quite surprise about you said that militias should leave the federal property, but many comments on Fox News celebrates about takeover of federal property.

Federal government? Not anymore after they reformed in 1994-1995, after Ruby Ridge and Waco. They prefer to let local like sheriff and state to handling first.
 
Foxrac said:
Jiro claims about terrorist is opinion and I'm not label you as terrorist. :lol:

That's quite surprise about you said that militias should leave the federal property, but many comments on Fox News celebrates about takeover of federal property.
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I, personally, feel that it is an incredible act of stupidity to intentionally piss off the Feds.

They have nukes.
 
Steinhauer said:
I, personally, feel that it is an incredible act of stupidity to intentionally piss off the Feds.

They have nukes.
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See 3rd paragraph - I edited my post.
 
Foxrac said:
See 3rd paragraph - I edited my post.
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Ok, I re-read your paragraph. The local Sheriff is claiming that this militia group is not acting honorably. Whether or not this is a "smear campaign' I really don't know. I'm not there, and I do not know the finite details of what is going on. I don't even trust the media accounts because there are so many different stories.

The Sheriff, however, is claiming that this militia group is attempting to spark a nationwide "civil war". I do give him some credibility - because .... this group showed up uninvited, against the wishes of the father and son who were put in jail.

I do think 5 years is much too long a sentence, I do not believe they set the fire maliciously, and I do think the Feds are lying that they started the fire to cover up poaching.

You just have to know a little bit about the farming community and hunting. You don't burn 139 acres to cover up poaching. There are far more easier ways. Even a former BLM official has testified for this family and claimed they were doing what farmers have always done - cleared their land, and even called and received permission to do so the morning the fire got out of control.

I think the Feds were attempting to bully this family. How this militia is going about it is simply the wrong way.

Just something to take into consideration:

https://www.intellihub.com/hammond-ranch-may-be-sitting-on-precious-metals-materials-the-blm-wants/

The same reason the Cherokee were forced on the Trail of Tears - when gold was discovered on their land.
 
Steinhauer said:
Ok, I re-read your paragraph. The local Sheriff is claiming that this militia group is not acting honorably. Whether or not this is a "smear campaign' I really don't know. I'm not there, and I do not know the finite details of what is going on. I don't even trust the media accounts because there are so many different stories.

The Sheriff, however, is claiming that this militia group is attempting to spark a nationwide "civil war". I do give him some credibility - because .... this group showed up uninvited, against the wishes of the father and son who were put in jail.

I do think 5 years is much too long a sentence, I do not believe they set the fire maliciously, and I do think the Feds are lying that they started the fire to cover up poaching.

You just have to know a little bit about the farming community and hunting. You don't burn 139 acres to cover up poaching. There are far more easier ways. Even a former BLM official has testified for this family and claimed they were doing what farmers have always done - cleared their land, and even called and received permission to do so the morning the fire got out of control.

I think the Feds were attempting to bully this family. How this militia is going about it is simply the wrong way.
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It isn't federal government, but jurors decided to convict the father and son with arson, also 5 years sentence is mandatory under minimum sentence law - blame on the congress (Newt Gingrich) and the president (Bill Clinton) for signed anti-terrorism law into law - in 1996.

If jurors think that federal government is lying so they will acquit both of them - that's not happened and FBI have to follow laws.

Don't like law? Ask the congress to change it.
 
Foxrac said:
It isn't federal government, but jurors decided to convict the father and son with arson, also 5 years sentence is mandatory under minimum sentence law - blame on the congress (Newt Gingrich) and the president (Bill Clinton) for signed anti-terrorism law into law - in 1996.

If jurors think that federal government is lying so they will acquit both of them - that's not happened and FBI have to follow laws.

Don't like law? Ask the congress to change it.
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When have I said I didn't like the law? If it turns out that this father and son really did maliciously burn 139 acres, then yes, they should spend the full 5 years. I just don't think they did this intentionally.

What I am saying, is I believe the Feds were lying in order to convict them.
 
Steinhauer said:
When have I said I didn't like the law? If it turns out that this father and son really did maliciously burn 139 acres, then yes, they should spend the full 5 years. I just don't think they did this intentionally.

What I am saying, is I believe the Feds were lying in order to convict them.
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You should realize that jurors have power to convict or acquit.

I don't think federal law enforcement is lying, but they obtained evidences that all they have.
 
Foxrac said:
You should realize that jurors have power to convict or acquit.

I don't think federal law enforcement is lying, but they obtained evidences that all they have.
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If they started those fires to cover up poaching, where is the evidence that they were poaching?

The Feds could have proven this beyond a reasonable doubt, yet they had absolutely no evidence.

What they do have, is a recorded call the Hammonds placed earlier the morning of the fire, where they received permission to do a prescribed burn.
 
Steinhauer said:
If they started those fires to cover up poaching, where is the evidence that they were poaching?

The Feds could have proven this beyond a reasonable doubt, yet they had absolutely no evidence.

What they do have, is a recorded call the Hammonds placed earlier the morning of the fire, where they received permission to do a prescribed burn.
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It was jurors made unanimous decision to convict both of them.

but... that's not my problem and do you have access to check FBI evidence?
 
Foxrac said:
It was jurors made unanimous decision to convict both of them.

but... that's not my problem and do you have access to check FBI evidence?
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I have access to the court documents like everyone else. The Feds were not able to produce any evidence of poaching.

regardless, the Hammonds can appeal and they should. I don't think having a militia break into a Wildlife Refuge building is the answer.
 
Steinhauer said:
I have access to the court documents like everyone else. The Feds were not able to produce any evidence of poaching.

regardless, the Hammonds can appeal and they should. I don't think having a militia break into a Wildlife Refuge building is the answer.
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If Hammonds aren't appealing so that's suggest about FBI isn't lying, also why jurors convicted Hammonds at first place?

Some people are trying to get away with crime by cover-up.
 
Foxrac said:
If Hammonds aren't appealing so that's suggest about FBI isn't lying, also why jurors convicted Hammonds at first place?

Some people are trying to get away with crime by cover-up.
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That is implying that they had evidence.

They didn't have evidence. if they had evidence, it would have been shown in court. All that was asked was whether the Hammonds started the fire. They admitted they started the fire. The fire got out of control. The first judge ackowledged there was a minimum 5 year sentence, and claimed that was cruel and unusual considering the Hammonds had not intentionally allowed the fire to burn out of control.
 
Steinhauer said:
That is implying that they had evidence.

They didn't have evidence. if they had evidence, it would have been shown in court.
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It could be done with interrogation to get more info and use as evidence.

The interrogation is usual tool for law enforcement agencies.
 
Foxrac said:
It could be done with interrogation to get more info and use as evidence.

The interrogation is usual tool for law enforcement agencies.
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Or, they could have just produced the evidence that the Hammonds were covering up poaching.

they were not poaching, if they were poaching, the Feds would have evidence of it, which they do not.
 
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