Angry Mob of Racist Extremists Beats Black Man at Town Hall Meeting

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• Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the gov option!

• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!

• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!

• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)

• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.

• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.

• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.

• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)

• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.

• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)

• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens

• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.

• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.

• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.

• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.

• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.

• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.

• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, wh o does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll <>BR • Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll

• Page 167: Any individual who doesn't' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.

• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).

• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.

• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.

• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."

• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)

• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.

• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.

• Page 268: Government regulates re ntal and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.

• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!

• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.

• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.

• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!

• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.

• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.

• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.

• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.

• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.

• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).

• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?

• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to20lock in estate taxes ahead of time.

• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.

• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.

• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.

• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.

• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.

• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.

• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.

• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
AARP Online Community: Insurance and Medicare - What You Should Know About Healthcare Reform

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
 
Reba said:
Huh? I wasn't talking about Palin. :dunno:
Click to expand...

I only ASKED you because we learn negative by Palin.


Reba said:
That link must be a source of great comfort to you.
Click to expand...

Huh? :confused:

darkdog said:
I'm not sure if you understand- I disagree with the depictions of the president as Hitler. I'm saying there will always be at least a few unhinged people doing that. Such incidents have actually decreased since Obama's inauguration.
Click to expand...

Yes I understood what you are saying. Yes I know that you disagree that Obama is Hitler. I only let you know that I disagree some of his political and show you the link why Obama is not Hitler. I think I should post the link by my own post for everyone instead of quote your post.
 
Reba said:
Yes, they are, and they aren't as good as private insurance.

Hubby and I use the VA hospital, so I speak from experience. Most of the staff at VA hospitals are wonderful people, and the services, once you get them, are usually very good. The problem is, you are at their mercy as far as making appointments and being able to see specialists. And then, we still have to pay for the services and meds. It is not free.

We veterans earned our medical services, and we pay the Tricare insurance premiums, the co-pays, and the taxes that support the system. Medical care for veterans was supposed to be one of our "benefits" for our military service.

The VA system covers a very select population, unlike Obamacare which will have to cover a very large, diverse population.

Should civilians who didn't earn Obamacare expect better benefits than those who earned and paid for them?

If you want to make a case for Obamacare, I suggest you don't include VA medical services as a support for your argument. It will backfire on you.
Click to expand...

Tricare is just like other social insurance that we have pay it?

I don't compare VA hospital with Obama care but just simply say about from government, that all because I know VA hospital are different from Obama care due need medical service for our troopers.

If you have health insurance that you satisfied so you don't need change, that what Obama made address on state.

Social insurance is just like offers by government and we have pay it but better service than universal health care and cheaper than private insurance, there's no guarantee about social insurance would receive better medical service as private insurance.

Do you have any idea to addresses on over 50 millions of Americans don't have insurance?
 
kokonut said:
• Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the gov option!

• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!

• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!

• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)

• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.

• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.

• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.

• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)

• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.

• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)

• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens

• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.

• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.

• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.

• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.

• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.

• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.

• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, wh o does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll <>BR • Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll

• Page 167: Any individual who doesn't' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.

• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).

• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.

• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.

• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."

• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)

• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.

• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.

• Page 268: Government regulates re ntal and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.

• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!

• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.

• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.

• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!

• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.

• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.

• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.

• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.

• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.

• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).

• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?

• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to20lock in estate taxes ahead of time.

• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.

• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.

• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.

• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.

• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.

• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.

• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.

• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
AARP Online Community: Insurance and Medicare - What You Should Know About Healthcare Reform

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
Click to expand...

Have you check with PolitiFact or FactCheck on this?

Accord page 50 - Accord to several debate threads that illegal immigrants receive medical care through medicaid. Correct? If yes, you should better check with PolitiFact over page 50.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...e-health-care-illegal-immigrants-health-bill/

I would advise you to check those list with Politifact.com.

 
Nurses and Doctors are pushing for health care reform

http://newsok.com/nurses-future-doctors-push-for-health-care-reform/article/3384568


Union Nurses Call For Health Care Reform (WATCH)


Provide Health Insurance for All

Health Insurance Lobby Group Protested by Doctors, Nurses, and Patients

So, why was the street in front of the San Diego Convention Center lined with noisy protesters?

Two words sum it all up: “Single Payer”. With annual profitably in the neighborhood of $11 billion dollars, those are the two words that the health insurance industry fears most. AHIP and their associated lobbyists have worked long and hard to keep any reforms involving “single payer” off the table. And they’ve had a measure of success thus far, the kind of success fueled by massive campaign contributions and slick public relations programs designed to fool the public into thinking that the industry actually cares about health care.

Health Insurance Lobby Group Protested by Doctors, Nurses, and Patients


Doctors And Nurses Join Together In Call For Health Care Reform

As the debate heats up around the country about how to expand health care access to all, these doctors, med students, nurses and other practitioners are publicly coming forward to support key components of health care reform: providing a public plan option to compete with private insurance, reducing disparities of care based on race or socio-economic background, protecting safety net hospitals, and emphasizing primary care and preventative medicine.

Doctors And Nurses Join Together In Call For Health Care Reform


ADVANCE Perspective: Nurses : Road to Healthcare Reform


Dozens of doctors with their white coats, nurses uniforms and people with hospital gowns and slippers gathered yesterday at the Beverly Center area to support health reform, focused on affordable universal health insurance coverage. Doctors marched against insurance companies and asked to adopt universal medical coverage

Doctors For Affordable Health Insurance Reform, Affordable Health Insurance

Nurses for Reform: Blog

Doctors' Group Backs Single-Payer Amendment to House Health Care Bill | UC-IMC

Physicians for a National Health Program: Doctors, Nurses Challenge Edwards to Endorse Real Reform

AMA backs House health-care bill - First Read - msnbc.com

AMA backs House healthcare reform bill

(Reuters) UPDATED 2009-07-16

The American Medical Association (AMA) is urging approval for healthcare overhaul legislation currently moving through committees in the U.S. House of Representatives. AMA officials say the organization supports the legislation because it includes a broad range of provisions that they believe are vital to effective and comprehensive healthcare reform. In particular, the AMA supports insurance market reforms that seek to expand healthcare coverage, change Medicare, and provide consumers with a choice between private and public insurance plans. They also support the legislation's ban on exclusions from coverage for pre-existing conditions and its emphasis on reliance on primary care doctors. Read full story >

AMA backs House healthcare reform bill
 
darkdog said:
I think Tom Daschle gives a pretty good explanation of why government-run health care resonates more in Europe than it does here. In his book, "Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-care Crisis", he praises the Europeans for being less into medical advances and technology than we are. He also says seniors need to be more accepting of their conditions and doctors need to operate less like solo practitioners.

That may be all well and good for Europeans, but for me, it's "Thanks but no thanks". Let's do this in a way so as to keep our innovation and individualism.
Click to expand...

But Tom Daschle took one item out of context. Dashchle has also stated that one of the keys to reducing health care costs is preventive care. People who are not insured do not go to the doctor for preventive care. They wait until their symptoms are severe, and then they go to the ER. By that time, many of them have had their disease progress to the point that they need catastrophic care. Additionally, many HMOs and PPOs restrict the preventive services their members can receive. That has the same effect. The patient is much more likely to have to have to have catastrophic care that is many, many times more expensive than the preventive services would have been. The only way to increase the use of preventive services is to regulate the insurance companies that restrict or refuse payment for them, and to make sure that all Americans are insured so they can access preventive services.

Here is an example with dental x-rays. Bite wing x-rays once a year are preventive. The HMO will only pay for every two years. The result is, a problem that could have been detected and taken care of quickly and inexpensively becomes a bigger problem that costs more to treat. A problem that the insurance company themselves contributed to. But, when they have to pay out on the problem they helped to create for the patient, what do they do? Do they start paying the inexpensive cost of x-rays yearly? No, they raise the premiums for the people with their insurance. That means it costs the company more that provides the insurance, and it costs the patient more. And medical costs go up.

But they don’t want to pay for preventive care, because the insurance companies are hedging on the fact that, even if they end up having to pay premiums for catastrophic care, the number of people that will need catastrophic care is still below the number of people that need preventive care. That means more profit in their pocket. Just goes to show that the insurance companies are not in the least concerned about the health care of the people that are paying into their company. They are concerned only with how much profit they will make at any given time.
 
Get the Facts

The debate on health reform is dominating the news these days—as it should. We understand why this issue can create such strong feelings, since every person will be affected by the policy choices that are made.
But much of the debate is being driven by special interests that are deliberately kicking up clouds of dust to obscure the facts. So many people are expressing confusion, skepticism, and even fear about what the Obama administration and members of Congress are proposing.
AARP doesn't want misinformation and fear-mongering to dominate this debate. From allegations about rationing care to wild reports of government-sponsored euthanasia, the rumors just keep getting crazier. AARP wants to help you find the facts about what health-care reform will mean for you and your family.
Come back to this site often to arm yourself with the facts you need to make informed decisions about legislative proposals winding their way through Congress, and where AARP stands on important provisions.
If your questions aren't answered on this site, please feel welcome to contact us at 1-866-AARP-449 (1-866-227-7449). And if you want to join AARP's battle to fix our health-care system, please visit healthactionnow.org.
Health Reform: Get the Facts
 
The bill does not mandate any kind of end of life care or even a discussion with the doctor about end of life care. What the bill says is that Medicare will pay for a voluntary, patient initiated discussion about end of life care every 5 years. It is completely voluntary, it must be asked for by the patient, and it makes no recommendations whatsoever regarding the type of care anyone should or should not receive. The only difference is that Medicare does not pay for these consultations now, but under health care reform, they will.
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Have you check with PolitiFact or FactCheck on this?

Accord page 50 - Accord to several debate threads that illegal immigrants receive medical care through medicaid. Correct? If yes, you should better check with PolitiFact over page 50.

PolitiFact | No free health care for illegal immigrants in the health bill

I would advise you to check those list with Politifact.com.
Click to expand...

Read carefully. I never said anything about medicaid, medicare or anything like that just health care which can include coverages. If you read page 50, which you did not, you will see that it does not say anything specific on which medical care to be given out to such as U.S. citizens only. The language is broad whenever one says "individual rights" and "personal characteristics." Show me, Liebling, where it makes specific statements that this bill is for U.S. citizens only.
 
shel90 said:
But Tom Daschle took one item out of context. Dashchle has also stated that one of the keys to reducing health care costs is preventive care. People who are not insured do not go to the doctor for preventive care. They wait until their symptoms are severe, and then they go to the ER. By that time, many of them have had their disease progress to the point that they need catastrophic care. Additionally, many HMOs and PPOs restrict the preventive services their members can receive. That has the same effect. The patient is much more likely to have to have to have catastrophic care that is many, many times more expensive than the preventive services would have been. The only way to increase the use of preventive services is to regulate the insurance companies that restrict or refuse payment for them, and to make sure that all Americans are insured so they can access preventive services.

Here is an example with dental x-rays. Bite wing x-rays once a year are preventive. The HMO will only pay for every two years. The result is, a problem that could have been detected and taken care of quickly and inexpensively becomes a bigger problem that costs more to treat. A problem that the insurance company themselves contributed to. But, when they have to pay out on the problem they helped to create for the patient, what do they do? Do they start paying the inexpensive cost of x-rays yearly? No, they raise the premiums for the people with their insurance. That means it costs the company more that provides the insurance, and it costs the patient more. And medical costs go up.

But they don’t want to pay for preventive care, because the insurance companies are hedging on the fact that, even if they end up having to pay premiums for catastrophic care, the number of people that will need catastrophic care is still below the number of people that need preventive care. That means more profit in their pocket. Just goes to show that the insurance companies are not in the least concerned about the health care of the people that are paying into their company. They are concerned only with how much profit they will make at any given time.
Click to expand...
Question: Does your car insurance pay for your oil changes, checkups, and minor repairs? Why not? Could it be because the whole purpose of insurance is to insure against the catastrophic?

I don't see why it's a surprise that a company would charge more for more services. If the x-rays aren't that expensive, then it shouldn't be too hard to pay for them out of pocket. Nevertheless, if insurance companies do start offering such services without increasing their premiums, it will be thanks to competition and the profit motive- the desire to one up the other companies by offering more attractive products.

It makes sense that insurance companies would find that preventative medicine doesn't reduce their costs. The CBO came to the same conclusion also: Many Ounces of Prevention - Columns - American Issues Project

We, as individuals, should be in charge of keeping ourselves healthy and doing preventative care. The things I favor would make preventative care cheaper and thus more accessible for everybody. Handing that responsibility over to the government is a great way to hand over our individual freedoms to the government.
 
shel90 said:
Get the Facts

The debate on health reform is dominating the news these days—as it should. We understand why this issue can create such strong feelings, since every person will be affected by the policy choices that are made.
But much of the debate is being driven by special interests that are deliberately kicking up clouds of dust to obscure the facts. So many people are expressing confusion, skepticism, and even fear about what the Obama administration and members of Congress are proposing.
AARP doesn't want misinformation and fear-mongering to dominate this debate. From allegations about rationing care to wild reports of government-sponsored euthanasia, the rumors just keep getting crazier. AARP wants to help you find the facts about what health-care reform will mean for you and your family.
Come back to this site often to arm yourself with the facts you need to make informed decisions about legislative proposals winding their way through Congress, and where AARP stands on important provisions.
If your questions aren't answered on this site, please feel welcome to contact us at 1-866-AARP-449 (1-866-227-7449). And if you want to join AARP's battle to fix our health-care system, please visit healthactionnow.org.
Health Reform: Get the Facts
Click to expand...

FACT #1: We don't have the money to pay for this. How much simpler can one get with this one?
 
From the 'snitch out a friend' line to the White House to Obama's ACORN/Thug way of shutting up "the people"....
I agree, this isn't or wasn't a racist thing it was an orchastrated thing designed to intimidate the people and to stifle dissent and presentation of thought against Obama's Socialist Healthcare Program.

If this works then all the sheeple will assume Obama has support for this fiasco and follow along without using their brains to think.
 
ASLGAL said:
From the 'snitch out a friend' line to the White House to Obama's ACORN/Thug way of shutting up "the people"....
I agree, this isn't or wasn't a racist thing it was an orchastrated thing designed to intimidate the people and to stifle dissent and presentation of thought against Obama's Socialist Healthcare Program.

If this works then all the sheeple will assume Obama has support for this fiasco and follow along without using their brains to think.
Click to expand...

Source? And who is the snitch?
 
shel90 said:
...Here is an example with dental x-rays. Bite wing x-rays once a year are preventive. The HMO will only pay for every two years. The result is, a problem that could have been detected and taken care of quickly and inexpensively becomes a bigger problem that costs more to treat. A problem that the insurance company themselves contributed to. But, when they have to pay out on the problem they helped to create for the patient, what do they do? Do they start paying the inexpensive cost of x-rays yearly? No, they raise the premiums for the people with their insurance. That means it costs the company more that provides the insurance, and it costs the patient more. And medical costs go up.
Click to expand...
I don't have dental insurance, so I go to the local technical college dental school twice a year. I pay $18 for x-rays (bite wing and panoramic included), once a year as recommended, and $18 for the exam, cleaning and fluoride treatment. Cheaper than insurance premiums (and they do the most thorough cleaning). :D
 
shel90 said:
The bill does not mandate any kind of end of life care or even a discussion with the doctor about end of life care. What the bill says is that Medicare will pay for a voluntary, patient initiated discussion about end of life care every 5 years. It is completely voluntary, it must be asked for by the patient, and it makes no recommendations whatsoever regarding the type of care anyone should or should not receive. The only difference is that Medicare does not pay for these consultations now, but under health care reform, they will.
Click to expand...
The VA hospitals discuss "end of life" matters now. Last time I went for my annual physical they asked if I had a living will, and if they could keep a copy on file at the clinic. It was not a "patient initiated discussion."
 
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