Acoustic Characteristics of the Speech of Young Cochlear Implant Users

[jillio]

My master's is in deaf education where all of my studies were centered on deaf-related issues in the education studies. My BA degree which was in special ed only talked about deaf ed in one lecture (not even one class) and the professor said deaf students are best placed in front of the class and the teachers has to make sure that the students are able to read their lips. Nothing about ASL, Deaf culture, CIs, FM systems, or anything like that.

I see the devastating results from oral-only deaf ed when we get students referred to our program because they fell so far behind due to not being able to pick up on spoken language fully. AS a result, their cognitive thinking or processes become impaired. Not even learning ASL later alone can fix those delays. It takes intensive remedial work but the point is..why does it continue to happen? In my view, it is a travesty and I feel very strongly about it.

It continues because special ed teachers and administrators have been indoctrinated to believe that this is the best way to serve a deaf child, and the the "least restictive environment" should always be interpreted as "local school". Actually, these beliefs are not based on the needs of the deaf child, but on economic feasibility studies. Likewise, parents that turn to these people for advise are led to believe that these educators, who in reality know nothing about deaf education, are "experts", and therefore, accept the misinformation as being true. When they finally figure out that their kids are not being properly served, they refer them to schools and teachers like you to catch them up where the "experts" have failed.

Guess I'll be accused of being judgemental and anti-CI again for stating the truth! Oh, and in case it is questioned, I already revelaed in another post that the area in which vallee lives is the very area that I relocated from because they are very orally based and my sons needs were not being met in the educational system. This is the system I had to take to due process to get a terp for my son in kindergarten because they took the position that he didn't need a terp until he was in the 4th or 5th grade when the material got harder. Swear to God, that was the argument the itinerate speech and language pathologist used in the due process hearing. Says alot, doesn't it?

 

[shel90]

It continues because special ed teachers and administrators have been indoctrinated to believe that this is the best way to serve a deaf child, and the the "least restictive environment" should always be interpreted as "local school". Actually, these beliefs are not based on the needs of the deaf child, but on economic feasibility studies. Likewise, parents that turn to these people for advise are led to believe that these educators, who in reality know nothing about deaf education, are "experts", and therefore, accept the misinformation as being true. When they finally figure out that their kids are not being properly served, they refer them to schools and teachers like you to catch them up where the "experts" have failed.

Guess I'll be accused of being judgemental and anti-CI again for stating the truth!

I mean if I got hired to run a deaf ed program on my BA degree alone simply because I am deaf, that would be a huge mistake cuz I wouldnt run a very good program myself back then. I am so thankful that I got my Master's in Deaf Ed. It really opened my eyes big time.

 

[deafskeptic]

The solution would be is to expose the children to both ASL and spoken language from the beginning. It doesnt mean one has to send the child away to a deaf school. I havent yet seen a local school system doing a good job with meeting the needs of deaf children. Maybe you have, but all of my experiences, including my own as a student, of working in deaf ed programs in the public schools shown me that there is lack of understanding and knowledge of how to meet their needs.

From my experience of the local schools that have deaf ed programs is that they lump all of the kids ranging from kindergarden to 8 th grade in one class with one teacher for Language arts, hiring interpreters that only had 1 year worth of sign language classes, forcing the kids who rely on ASL to use spoken language, forcing them to rely on spoken language to learn, and worst of all making my brother suffer 5 years in an oral-only environment when it was apparent from the beginning that he wasnt picking up on it. Maybe what I saw forever turned me off about local schools that have oral deaf ed programs leaving me with a strong distrust of them. I wish I can say I saw a good program for deaf children in the local school districts..maybe someday, I will.

I had a really bad experience with being mainstreamed; it doesn't help that my parents are very focused on education and not going to college isn't an option from my parents' pov. I have not forgotten how things got very tense when my brother dropped out of college; it got so bad that he disappeared for two days. I can't help contrasting my brother in law and my sister's reaction to my niece when she dropped out of college and then came back to it. I think the attiude is that she'll find herself.

I've heard too many stories about mainstreaming to think it's good for even deaf with moderate loss.

I agree there is a lack of understanding in mainstream programs.

 

[jillio]

Shel, I also have my master's degree in special education. I have a BA in early childhood elementary. Oh yes, others know more in the field. I agree.

As a deaf person with a CI, I disagree with her.

Disagree with what? That all deaf children, whether implanted or not, are entitled to a liguistically rich environment that allows them to develop and be educated at the same rates as their hearing peers?

 

[shel90]

I had a really bad experience with being mainstreamed; it doesn't help that my parents are very focused on education and not going to college isn't an option from my parents' pov. I have not forgotten how things got very tense when my brother dropped out of college; it got so bad that he disappeared for two days. I can't help contrasting my brother in law and my sister's reaction to my niece when she dropped out of college and then came back to it. I think the attiude is that she'll find herself.

I've heard too many stories about mainstreaming to think it's good for even deaf with moderate loss.

I agree there is a lack of understanding in mainstream programs.

Can you rephrase that? I am not sure if I am understanding that statement correctly. Thanks!

 

[jillio]

I mean if I got hired to run a deaf ed program on my BA degree alone simply because I am deaf, that would be a huge mistake cuz I wouldnt run a very good program myself back then. I am so thankful that I got my Master's in Deaf Ed. It really opened my eyes big time.

Exactly. A degree in special education does not equal a degree in Deaf Ed. Nor is the special ed teacher qualified to properly assess either the progress or the deficits in a deaf child's education, because they use the criteria and remediation methodology designed for other cognitive disabilites. The problem is, they don't realize exactly how little they do know.

 

[deafskeptic]

Can you rephrase that? I am not sure if I am understanding that statement correctly. Thanks!

Erm, I was thinking about a guy who has a moderate loss who dropped out of school when I said that. He said it was just too much for him to try to keep up with the hearing teachers and it was alienating.

I've heard too many horror stories about being mainstreamed form many deaf too.

 

[jillio]

Erm, I was thinking about a guy who has a moderate loss who dropped out of school when I said that. He said it was just too much for him to try to keep up with the hearing teachers and it was alienating.

I've heard too many horror stories about being mainstreamed form many deaf too.

Happens far too often, deaskeptic. I can't understand why anyone would consider an environment that fosters that attitude and sense of failure in an otherwise capable young person to be acceptable.

 

[jillio]

You seem to missing the point of the limited portion of the article that was originally posted. The testing was not done to indicate receptive abilities of deaf children with CI, but on the expressive correctness of their pronunciation. It is about their ability to pronounce words only.

Here is post 21. If you are in disagreement with it, then you are in disagreement with the author of the study, not me. This what the abstract clearly states the article is about.

 

[jillio]

Go back to post 21

See above.

 

[flip]

Exactly where did any of those of us who use CI's or have kids with CI's state anything about 100% success? I'm really curious. I concider mine to be a success and I only tested in the mid 80's. The thing is I got what I wanted from it. While there may be some idiots who get the Ci's thinking that the results will be 100% around here I don't see that expectation. I don't see it on other CI lists I'm on either.

It doesn't say but I would think the 46 to 97 involves different sounds which were measured separately. That could be written better.

I only follow the thinking of the paper we are reading here. This paper is diccusing "success" and "failures" along with "precentage" on oral skills. This is where my 100% success comes from, the holy grail here is obviously deafs with hearing oral skills. I did not say anyone of you state anything about 100% success.

I am glad you got what you wanted from your CI, and belive you.

 

[Buffalo]

, Jillio! Now I think I read every CI article in PubMed probably three times or more.

(Sorry for more off topic!)

It is nice to have a father who is a doctor as well. You get to look thru his medical magazines.

 

[Buffalo]

If you can read very carefully where it says that "unlike alot of families who drop sign language soon after their child gets cochlear implants." Which is true, beside Ricky's mother had not dropped signs, she kept the same communication method after her son had the cochlear implant. This is what I praise her for.

Have you uses signs with your daughter? no. Have Cloggy continuing with signs with his daughter? no--therefore I made my point.

Sounds like many parents think the ability to hear equal ability to understand speech right away! The deaf child needs visual words along with aural words in order to make the transfer easier. I am glad Ricky's mom keept the sign language, too.
I have said this before and I will say this again. CI is not 100% effective but sign language is 100% effective and I am speaking of the communication with a deaf child/adult and development of the language (not spoken kind).

 

[jag]

Erm, I was thinking about a guy who has a moderate loss who dropped out of school when I said that. He said it was just too much for him to try to keep up with the hearing teachers and it was alienating.

I've heard too many horror stories about being mainstreamed form many deaf too.

And I disagree. I went to hs with a severe/mod loss and enjoyed many aspects of it. Of course it does require more work to get the work done but none of it was the teachers fault. And this was pre-IDEA days.

 

[deafskeptic]

And I disagree. I went to hs with a severe/mod loss and enjoyed many aspects of it. Of course it does require more work to get the work done but none of it was the teachers fault. And this was pre-IDEA days.

Try tellling that to him and other deaf like him. I've no doubt that some deaf thrive in this kind of environment like you did but they're in the minority.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

She might not work with deaf kids but I do not only do I work with deaf kids everyday plus all of my students have cochlear implants, I provide auditory verbal therapy to families that have children with implants, and I have 2 deaf teenagers that both have cochlear implants. I have seen so many success stories with cochlear implants and it is also always because parents followed through on what they needed too. I have also seen a couple of students that have not had the success they show have. The main reason is that parents do not follow through as they should.

Do you work with deaf children?

I didnt know anything about the issues of deaf education, literacy, language deprivation, and so on until I studied it for my Master's. The fact that I lived life as a deaf person alone did not make me an expert on deaf education. When I got my BA degree in special ed, there were hearing people who knew more about all of the issues relating to the education of the deaf because they studied it and had experienced working with different children in different kinds of situations in their professional lives. After 5 years in the field and my studies, I know so much more about it than I did 10 years ago. By being deaf alone doesnt make one an expert on all the issues surrounding deaf education. CIs are one of the many issues. I still have lots to learn myself.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

My master's is in deaf education where all of my studies were centered on deaf-related issues in the education studies. My BA degree which was in special ed only talked about deaf ed in one lecture (not even one class) and the professor said deaf students are best placed in front of the class and the teachers has to make sure that the students are able to read their lips. Nothing about ASL, Deaf culture, CIs, FM systems, or anything like that.

I see the devastating results from oral-only deaf ed when we get students referred to our program because they fell so far behind due to not being able to pick up on spoken language fully.

I understand that you see the devasting results but what I see is all the success stories. That is what is so sad is that you only see the kids that were not able to be oral and I am able to see the other side and yes I have seen several kids that were not able to be oral.

AS a result, their cognitive thinking or processes become impaired. Not even learning ASL later alone can fix those delays. It takes intensive remedial work but the point is..why does it continue to happen? In my view, it is a travesty and I feel very strongly about it.

What I feel very strongly about is that parents need to be very informed of all methods and make informed educated decisions, which I did and which I make sure all of my parents are aware off.

 

[rick48]

She might not work with deaf kids but I do not only do I work with deaf kids everyday plus all of my students have cochlear implants, I provide auditory verbal therapy to families that have children with implants, and I have 2 deaf teenagers that both have cochlear implants. I have seen so many success stories with cochlear implants and it is also always because parents followed through on what they needed too. I have also seen a couple of students that have not had the success they show have. The main reason is that parents do not follow through as they should.

Jackie,

I could not agree with you more as your experiences dovetail with mine. I have yet to me a successfully implanted child that did not have at least one dedicated parent actively involved in the child's development. I too know children who did not succeed with their implants and with few exceptions, it was neither the implant nor the language choice, but rather the parents' lack of involvement, care or concern with their deaf child's development.

A child who is 8-12 years old with severe language delays is not an overnight event but the result of years of neglect and/or denial by the parents.

Rick

PS Congratulations on your victory with your SD with respect to your daughter but I feel so bad that they are still fighting you in getting the proper services for your son. Good luck and if I can help, let me know.

 

[deafdyke]

My BA degree which was in special ed only talked about deaf ed in one lecture (not even one class) and the professor said deaf students are best placed in front of the class and the teachers has to make sure that the students are able to read their lips. Nothing about ASL, Deaf culture, CIs, FM systems, or anything like that.

Oh agreed. Sped just seems to be too "general special ed" and not too much info on how to teach kids with more classic disabilites. My best friend is blind and he experianced a lot of the same things that I have. I also have a ton of friends who are teachers, and I knew more then they did about special ed!
Rick, that's not quite true. Yes, some kids don't suceed b/c of minimal parental involvment. But a) oral only can be a little too "therapy 24/7" for some families. Some families cannot handle the intensity of "therapyizing" their kid and b) it's not all about methodology.There ARE cases where a CI only gives eniromental sounds, or some speech sounds or some words. Not all deaf kids will be functionally hoh with CI.

Oh, and I think that the kids who aren't going to be total oral sucesses, tend to be referred to TC programs a little earlier then they would have in the old days. That still doesn't mean that they don't have significent language delays.

 

[flip]

She might not work with deaf kids but I do not only do I work with deaf kids everyday plus all of my students have cochlear implants, I provide auditory verbal therapy to families that have children with implants, and I have 2 deaf teenagers that both have cochlear implants. I have seen so many success stories with cochlear implants and it is also always because parents followed through on what they needed too. I have also seen a couple of students that have not had the success they show have. The main reason is that parents do not follow through as they should.

It's us, who are in the adult deaf population that have to take care of the "success children" later when they are trashing around us to learn sign language. It's next to impossible for many parents to forecast this. Less oralism, means less work for the deaf community. That's perhaps why most deaf people are against oralism.