Acoustic Characteristics of the Speech of Young Cochlear Implant Users

[jillio]

I agree.

I think mine is a success as well. I view each ear separately. I went from nothing in my right ear to being about to understand words, sounds, sentences, and sound directions. There is no 100% with CIs. I tested high but I work everyday with sounds and words on tape. I spend hours practicing.

Jag - good posting.

You seem to missing the point of the limited portion of the article that was originally posted. The testing was not done to indicate receptive abilities of deaf children with CI, but on the expressive correctness of their pronunciation. It is about their ability to pronounce words only.

 

[vallee]

You seem to missing the point of the limited portion of the article that was originally posted. The testing was not done to indicate receptive abilities of deaf children with CI, but on the expressive correctness of their pronunciation. It is about their ability to pronounce words only.

Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. I view it as an blog not an article. I see it as opinions not facts. You do realize that some statements may be facts but provide false.

Also I was a deaf/hoh child. I lived it! I understand it. My hearing dog wakes me up every morning, I can't hear the alarm clock. Must be nice for you to hear your alarm clock each morning!

 

[shel90]

Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. I view it as an blog not an article. I see it as opinions not facts. You do realize that some statements may be facts but provide false.

Also I was a deaf/hoh child. I lived it! I understand it. My hearing dog wakes me up every morning, I can't hear the alarm clock. Must be nice for you to hear your alarm clock each morning!

Why is that so nice? We have flashing alarms and in my opinion, there is no difference between a light bulb and the sound of an alarm ringing. I used to think like that about how nice that hearing people can hear this or that and it drove me nuts.

I dont know..maybe in my view, there are worst things than being deaf which is why I dont wish I can hear this or that anymore.

 

[vallee]

Why is that so nice? We have flashing alarms and in my opinion, there is no difference between a light bulb and the sound of an alarm ringing. I used to think like that about how nice that hearing people can hear this or that and it drove me nuts.

I dont know..maybe in my view, there are worst things than being deaf which is why I dont wish I can hear this or that anymore. [/QUOTEI

I never said worst. I am stating that I live the life. You live the life. I accept being deaf. I also accept hearing with my CI. I don't accept judgement by people or limitations by people. I view Jillio as so anti-CI, and against anything and anyone with CIs.

 

[shel90]

Why is that so nice? We have flashing alarms and in my opinion, there is no difference between a light bulb and the sound of an alarm ringing. I used to think like that about how nice that hearing people can hear this or that and it drove me nuts.

I dont know..maybe in my view, there are worst things than being deaf which is why I dont wish I can hear this or that anymore. [/QUOTEI

I never said worst. I am stating that I live the life. You live the life. I accept being deaf. I also accept hearing with my CI. I don't accept judgement by people or limitations by people. I view Jillio as so anti-CI, and against anything and anyone with CIs.

I never said that u said worst. I was talking about my view of deafness.

 

[jillio]

Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. I view it as an blog not an article. I see it as opinions not facts. You do realize that some statements may be facts but provide false.

Also I was a deaf/hoh child. I lived it! I understand it. My hearing dog wakes me up every morning, I can't hear the alarm clock. Must be nice for you to hear your alarm clock each morning!

First of all, it states right up front that it is an article. Secondly, it contains an abstract, and I don't know of any blog format that requires an abstract. Thirdly, it contains a description of the research design. Fourthly, it contains a results and discussion section. And the fifth section, identified as "Conclusions" is the only section that could be considered to be "opinion" as it is based on the writer's interpretation of the data. However, I would be reluctant to even call that opinion, as all interpretation of research data is held to objective standards. Therefore, I would suggest that the post is not the product of a blog entry, but of a research article. However, the article was so pared down so as to prevent the reader from evaluating the methodology and statistical analysis of the data collected.

What does your hearing dog, or your inability to heat your alarm clock have to do with the speech production of CI users? Likewise, what does my ability to hear an alarm have to do with the speech production of young deaf CI users? This topic addresses the very real life situation of literacy and communication of deaf children, and the implied question is whether it is better to have a child that can repeat speech sounds like a parrot, or one that is capable of using and understanding language at an advanced level.

 

[jillio]

Why is that so nice? We have flashing alarms and in my opinion, there is no difference between a light bulb and the sound of an alarm ringing. I used to think like that about how nice that hearing people can hear this or that and it drove me nuts.

I dont know..maybe in my view, there are worst things than being deaf which is why I dont wish I can hear this or that anymore. [/QUOTEI

I never said worst. I am stating that I live the life. You live the life. I accept being deaf. I also accept hearing with my CI. I don't accept judgement by people or limitations by people. I view Jillio as so anti-CI, and against anything and anyone with CIs.

Then you have seriously misjudged me. I am against oral only environments, not CI. I have stated numerous times that I consider CI to be a personal choice. I advocate for parents to receive all of the pertinent information available prior to making the life altering decision that they propose to make for a deaf child, and that information is inclusive of the educational implications and the liguistic implications. And, as you have stated that you are an educator of students with disabilities, I would think that this would be a primary concern for you, as well. It is difficult, indeed, to understand an educator of students with disabilites who is satisfied with the status quo of deaf education. Unless, of course, that educator is simply one more of the professionalized "hearing" teachers who have been indoctrinated to belief that lower literacy scores and language delays are inherent in deafness and not the result of ineffective communication and teaching methodology.

And where, pray tell, do you see me judging you on the basis of your CI usage? That has nothing to do with the psot that you responded to. I simply said that you were failing to recognize that the article was talking about expressive abilites only, because you kept referring to those things that constitute receptive abilities.

 

[jillio]

Why is that so nice? We have flashing alarms and in my opinion, there is no difference between a light bulb and the sound of an alarm ringing. I used to think like that about how nice that hearing people can hear this or that and it drove me nuts.

I dont know..maybe in my view, there are worst things than being deaf which is why I dont wish I can hear this or that anymore.

Thanks for the attempt, shel. I think we both realize that this remark came from a personal adjustment issue, and not from anything remotely related to the topic.

 

[vallee]

What does your hearing dog, or your inability to heat your alarm clock have to do with the speech production of CI users? Likewise, what does my ability to hear an alarm have to do with the speech production of young deaf CI users? This topic addresses the very real life situation of literacy and communication of deaf children, and the implied question is whether it is better to have a child that can repeat speech sounds like a parrot, or one that is capable of using and understanding language at an advanced level.

You pass so much judgement on others, that I was shocked that you are hearing. I took what you said to someone else in a post and I went back and read your intro post. I'm shocked at so much judgement you pass. Yes you have a son who is deaf, but you know nothing of what it is like to be deaf. You talk about CI and children, language, speech development - know what I have been there, done that. Myself!

 

[jillio]

You pass so much judgement on others, that I was shocked that you are hearing. I took what you said to someone else in a post and I went back and read your intro post. I'm shocked at so much judgement you pass. Yes you have a son who is deaf, but you know nothing of what it is like to be deaf. You talk about CI and children, language, speech development - know what I have been there, done that. Myself!

And all of that still has nothing to do with the topic of the article. And if anyone is passing judgement in the here and now, it would be you, considering the posts you are making, and the innacurate assumptions you are tossing around.

So, now, the deaf are overly judgemental? Is that what you mean by being shocked that I am hearing? That's quite a stereotype that you have thrown out.

Where do you see judgement in my intro post? It would appear that you are looking for judgment where none exists, and are seeing it because of your own personal defensiveness toward any information that portrays the the fact that oral environment and CI is not the panacea you would like to believe it is.

And, I have noticed that you do not reply, nor quote me in entirety, but choose only those portions that you believe support your view of me as jedgmental and anti-CI. Neither view is accurate, and that is quite obvious if you take my words in their entirty and in context.

 

[vallee]

I agreed with Jag's posting on the 47-97%.

You judged my audiological testing. You judged Cloggy and his daughter. You judge Rick. I keep reading it over and over.

If the parents decide on CI and chose an oral environment or a total communication environment then accept it. Unless you can provide strategies or training then the best you can do accept the decision. I don't see you providing training for parents.

 

[shel90]

You pass so much judgement on others, that I was shocked that you are hearing. I took what you said to someone else in a post and I went back and read your intro post. I'm shocked at so much judgement you pass. Yes you have a son who is deaf, but you know nothing of what it is like to be deaf. You talk about CI and children, language, speech development - know what I have been there, done that. Myself!

Do you work with deaf children?

I didnt know anything about the issues of deaf education, literacy, language deprivation, and so on until I studied it for my Master's. The fact that I lived life as a deaf person alone did not make me an expert on deaf education. When I got my BA degree in special ed, there were hearing people who knew more about all of the issues relating to the education of the deaf because they studied it and had experienced working with different children in different kinds of situations in their professional lives. After 5 years in the field and my studies, I know so much more about it than I did 10 years ago. By being deaf alone doesnt make one an expert on all the issues surrounding deaf education. CIs are one of the many issues. I still have lots to learn myself.

 

[shel90]

I agreed with Jag's posting on the 47-97%.

You judged my audiological testing. You judged Cloggy and his daughter. You judge Rick. I keep reading it over and over.

If the parents decide on CI and chose an oral environment or a total communication environment then accept it. Unless you can provide strategies or training then the best you can do accept the decision. I don't see you providing training for parents.

How do u feel about deaf children being placed in an educational environment where they are constantly deprived access to language and end up with serious language delays? That is what Jillo, I and few others are against. Nothing to do with the CIs themselves. Where are the deaf children's rights to a full and appropriate education?

 

[vallee]

Go back to post 21

 

[vallee]

Do you work with deaf children?

I didnt know anything about the issues of deaf education, literacy, language deprivation, and so on until I studied it for my Master's. The fact that I lived life as a deaf person alone did not make me an expert on deaf education. When I got my BA degree in special ed, there were hearing people who knew more about all of the issues relating to the education of the deaf because they studied it and had experienced working with different children in different kinds of situations in their professional lives. After 5 years in the field and my studies, I know so much more about it than I did 10 years ago. By being deaf alone doesnt make one an expert on all the issues surrounding deaf education. CIs are one of the many issues. I still have lots to learn myself.

Shel, I also have my master's degree in special education. I have a BA in early childhood elementary. Oh yes, others know more in the field. I agree.

As a deaf person with a CI, I disagree with her.

 

[vallee]

How do u feel about deaf children being placed in an educational environment where they are constantly deprived access to language and end up with serious language delays? That is what Jillo, I and few others are against. Nothing to do with the CIs themselves. Where are the deaf children's rights to a full and appropriate education?

I am against it. Where are your solutions? I agree with full and appropriate education, I also agree with local education. I do believe alot of school systems do a good job in meeting the needs of deaf children. (my opinion). I would not as a parent send my child off to the school of the deaf 3 hours away.

 

[shel90]

Shel, I also have my master's degree in special education. I have a BA in early childhood elementary. Oh yes, others know more in the field. I agree.

As a deaf person with a CI, I disagree with her.

My master's is in deaf education where all of my studies were centered on deaf-related issues in the education studies. My BA degree which was in special ed only talked about deaf ed in one lecture (not even one class) and the professor said deaf students are best placed in front of the class and the teachers has to make sure that the students are able to read their lips. Nothing about ASL, Deaf culture, CIs, FM systems, or anything like that.

I see the devastating results from oral-only deaf ed when we get students referred to our program because they fell so far behind due to not being able to pick up on spoken language fully. AS a result, their cognitive thinking or processes become impaired. Not even learning ASL later alone can fix those delays. It takes intensive remedial work but the point is..why does it continue to happen? In my view, it is a travesty and I feel very strongly about it.

 

[jillio]

I agreed with Jag's posting on the 47-97%.

You judged my audiological testing. You judged Cloggy and his daughter. You judge Rick. I keep reading it over and over.

If the parents decide on CI and chose an oral environment or a total communication environment then accept it. Unless you can provide strategies or training then the best you can do accept the decision. I don't see you providing training for parents.

But you were agreeing with somethingthat you had misinterpreted as having soemthing to do with receptive abilities. It did not. Those percentages were in reference to expressive abilities only.

I did not judge your audiological testing in the least. I simply pointed out that you dannot take a comprehension score in one ear, and a comprehension score in a second ear, and then combine them to reach an overall comprehension score. To suggest that it is done that way is to provide innacurrate information to parents of deaf children who are reading these posts and could very well be responsible for assisting those parents, or anyone considering a CI indeveloping unrealistic expectations.

I have not judged Cloggy nor his daughter. You seem to consider pointing out inconsistencies and innacuracies as judgments. They are not. They are, quite simply, corrections of innacuracies. Cloggy attempts to portray the CI as a miracle devise, and consistently reiterates that sign language is no longer necessary for his daughter becuase of his CI, yet he also fails to mention the fact that his daughter is language delayed by 2 years. This is pertinent information to any parent making a decision regarding both CI and the linguistic environment that is to follow.

Nor do I jduge rick48. You need to go back and re-read with a less biased eye. Rick48 has proven himself to be one of the most judgmental posters on this board, and has, in fact, been banned for his offensivness.

I will never accept those methods that serve to further handicap a deaf child by placing them in an environment that does not allow them to capitalize on their strengths and recieve linguistic input that permits them to be educated on par with their hearing peers. And if you, as a deaf person and an educator of children with disabilities, do accept substandard education for these children, then I would suggest it is time to review your personal ethics as a teacher.

What do I do to educate parents? I run a support group for parents of deaf children, as well as a group for deaf teens and adoloscents. I correct innacurate information that prevents these parents from making fully informed decisions regarding educational and communications methods for their deaf children. I provide them the benefit of not only my personal experience in raising a deaf child, but also the accurate interpretation of the most recent research. I discuss with them the psychosocial implications of deafness for the child, and outline the pros and cons of mainstream placement educationally.

So, I might direct the question right back at you. Exactly what is it you are doing for these parents?

 

[jillio]

I am against it. Where are your solutions? I agree with full and appropriate education, I also agree with local education. I do believe alot of school systems do a good job in meeting the needs of deaf children. (my opinion). I would not as a parent send my child off to the school of the deaf 3 hours away.

Then how do you account for the reduction in literacy rates since the move toward mainstream placement and inclusion has been inacted? How do you account for the high dropout rate of mainstreamed deaf students? How do you account for the number of posters on this board alone that have detailed the negative educational experiences they have had in the mainstream. Its fine to have an opinion, but to base it on nothing more that what you wish to believe is a bit unrealistic, don't you think?

 

[shel90]

I am against it. Where are your solutions? I agree with full and appropriate education, I also agree with local education. I do believe alot of school systems do a good job in meeting the needs of deaf children. (my opinion). I would not as a parent send my child off to the school of the deaf 3 hours away.

The solution would be is to expose the children to both ASL and spoken language from the beginning. It doesnt mean one has to send the child away to a deaf school. I havent yet seen a local school system doing a good job with meeting the needs of deaf children. Maybe you have, but all of my experiences, including my own as a student, of working in deaf ed programs in the public schools shown me that there is lack of understanding and knowledge of how to meet their needs.

From my experience of the local schools that have deaf ed programs is that they lump all of the kids ranging from kindergarden to 8 th grade in one class with one teacher for Language arts, hiring interpreters that only had 1 year worth of sign language classes, forcing the kids who rely on ASL to use spoken language, forcing them to rely on spoken language to learn, and worst of all making my brother suffer 5 years in an oral-only environment when it was apparent from the beginning that he wasnt picking up on it. Maybe what I saw forever turned me off about local schools that have oral deaf ed programs leaving me with a strong distrust of them. I wish I can say I saw a good program for deaf children in the local school districts..maybe someday, I will.