Does professionals have the right to tell parents what to do and what not to do?

[Miss-Delectable]

Just wondering. And please, please do not hijack this thread or generate a controversy.

I met a woman, who's a friend of my friend, and she's training to be a teacher of the deaf and told me about how many students in her course, and how many wants to teach in which communication methods.

I found what she told me interesting. But what captured my interest the most was about a middle-aged woman in the course who had a baby grandson who's deaf. He recently had a CI at 8 months, I think.

And she went to meet the CI doctor and he told her not to use sign language at all with her little grandson.

That struck me as unprofessional. If I were a parent, I would have told him to stick that advice to a place where it doesn't shine.

And it irks me to no end that the doctor's biased because he should have known that sign language, in no way, does impede speech or the child's learning.

As far as I'm concerned every parents with a deaf child should have been given information on every communication methods along withs pros and cons, educational info and information on access to classes, support groups and deaf-related assocations etc.

I wonder how we can do something to change this. I know it's a systematic problem, if I said it right.

Face it, many of those so-called neutral (tongue in cheek) professionals are in it for the money that CI creates for further research and to assimilate deaf kids entirely into hearing world.

I reckon it would have been great if we the deaf community could fund a deaf person to go to medical school, in order to become a CI doctor, so he could encourage parents to use the full toolbox approach....

 

[shel90]

I agree with you...it is very unprofessional of those doctors. Very unethical.

 

[Liza]

They do not have the right.

 

[jillio]

It is not only unprofessional and unethical, according tothe majority of the research available regarding language acquisition of deaf children (bothwith and without CIs), it is a violation of the first premise of the Hippocratic Oath: First, do no harm.

 

[VamPyroX]

There is nothing wrong with teaching a baby with CI some sign language.

Did the doctor say specifically WHY it shouldn't be done?

While I disagree with the statement that the doctor suggested that sign language not be taught, I still haven't see why the doctor said that. There has to be a valid reason why.

 

[Cheri]

It had happened everywhere, Vampy. They think sign language fails the deaf, it doesn't.

I'm not surprise by the fact that the professionals comes off as being ignorant such as Audiologist, doctors, and those who works for the AG Bell organizations that tells parents not to use sign language with their deaf children.

I keep telling those hearing parents that they should hear us out and listen to the deaf adults views, because we know what is like to be deaf, we experienced it.

 

[Oddball]

CI doctor has no rights to tell the parents that a child should not use sign language. It is so wrong and unprofessional.

 

[deafskeptic]

A lot of people think that because doctors have an MD in some field that requires years of training, they should take their doctor's advice in other fields where they don't have much knowledge. Many tend to be uncritical of what others tell them.

Take my father for an example. He tends to be too trusting of those who he deems to be experts. He thinks I should be able to find batteries for my cochlear implants in the local drugstore because my audi said I should be able to find them in the local store and that she's an expert on Audiology. The problem here is that my implant requires high powered batteries - not regular HA batteries and there's only 50k implantees in the country. 50k imlantees who require special batteries are not likely to find batteries to suit thier needs in the local drug store. There are 28 million HA users so it's a no brainer who's more likey to find batteries for their needs. I had to remind him of what happened when we tried to find the batteries in the drugstore. My audi was wrong about me getting batteries for my CI from the local store. He asked me if I had tried the regular batteries. Yes, I have. They won't work well for my CI as they're too weak. My audi is awesome but even she makes mistakes.

My father also thinks he knows more about deafness than I do and I'm the one who has to live with my deafness day in and day out. He thinks there's I'm just imaging things or being whiny and there's no discrimination vs deaf. It's all in my head.


He's more likely to listen to those who can hear and those he deems to be educated. If my dad disagrees with someone, he'll say they're not educated. It's frustrating having to deal with people like that.

 

[dreama]

Poor kid. I hope they egnore the doctors advise as all deaf and HOH need sign language. Baby signing even helps with fully hearing babies so it can't be a bad thing.

 

[Interpretrator]

OF COURSE they have the right. It's their JOB to advise parents as to what they feel is the best course of treatment or whatever for the child. Just because you don't agree with that advice doesn't mean he didn't have the right to give it to you.

Parents also have the right and responsibility to evaluate such advice and determine if it works for them and their child(ren). Placing blame on a professional who is trained to give a certain kind of advice means not taking personal responsibility for your decision to believe or accept that advice.

 

[shel90]

OF COURSE they have the right. It's their JOB to advise parents as to what they feel is the best course of treatment or whatever for the child. Just because you don't agree with that advice doesn't mean he didn't have the right to give it to you.

Parents also have the right and responsibility to evaluate such advice and determine if it works for them and their child(ren). Placing blame on a professional who is trained to give a certain kind of advice means not taking personal responsibility for your decision to believe or accept that advice.

The problem is that parents are given that info firsthand and will most likely go that avenue without doing the research. I think the doctor's jobs are to explain the surgery, the risk and the device themselves but not to tell parents not to use ASL or interact with signing deaf children. I think that is unethical. Their job is to do the surgery...the audis job is to do the mapping..why is it their job to tell the parents what languages their children should be exposed to?

 

[Interpretrator]

The problem is that parents are given that info firsthand and will most likely go that avenue without doing the research.

That is the parents' fault for not considering all the options. Again: personal responsibility. Everyone -- deaf, hearing, parents, not parents, whatever -- should know better than to blindly accept any professional's opinion just because he or she has a diploma.

Also: It's not "unethical" for a doctor not to provide advice that he doesn't agree with or believes may harm his patient. In fact that is fully ethical. This doctor obviously believes sign language will be harmful to the child (I agree, that is idiocy) so he is providing his suggestions or recommendations for treatment, which includes withholding sign language. You may not like these suggestions but they are not unethical.

Again, to answer the original question posed: yes, they have the right.

 

[shel90]

That is the parents' fault for not considering all the options. Again: personal responsibility. Everyone -- deaf, hearing, parents, not parents, whatever -- should know better than to blindly accept any professional's opinion just because he or she has a diploma.

Also: It's not "unethical" for a doctor not to provide advice that he doesn't agree with or believes may harm his patient. In fact that is fully ethical. This doctor obviously believes sign language will be harmful to the child (I agree, that is idiocy) so he is providing his suggestions or recommendations for treatment, which includes withholding sign language. You may not like these suggestions but they are not unethical.

Again, to answer the original question posed: yes, they have the right.

I still think it is wrong cuz they dont have experience in the field of language acquisition and education of deaf children. Even myself, as a teacher, I must remain neutral about these subjects when it comes up in meetings or conferences and I understand my role even though inside some things I dont agree with. I would think the same would apply to doctors as well.

 

[Interpretrator]

I still think it is wrong cuz they dont have experience in the field of language acquisition and education of deaf children.

But how do you know that? For all you know this doctor is very well informed with all the latest research regarding deaf kids, language acquisition and CIs. Unfortunately, in his professional opinion he goes with the research (because there's always research to prove any position) that implanted children should not sign.

I agree the situation is ludicrous, don't get me wrong. It's the same way I get burned about audiologists who don't sign.

 

[shel90]

But how do you know that? For all you know this doctor is very well informed with all the latest research regarding deaf kids, language acquisition and CIs. Unfortunately, in his professional opinion he goes with the research (because there's always research to prove any position) that implanted children should not sign.

I agree the situation is ludicrous, don't get me wrong. It's the same way I get burned about audiologists who don't sign.

I am not arguing with u...just debating with my opinions.

About my previous comment, I meant personal experiences. I mean many of the doctors and audiologists I have met do not even sign so how do they understand the complexity of ASL and language acquisitation in deaf children? Do they see the struggles the kids go through when they dont pick up on spoken language? That kind of thing. Maybe I am not putting my thoughts correctly but I hope u get what I mean. It is the misconception that is out there about ASL interfering with spoken language development.

 

[deafbajagal]

Just wondering. And please, please do not hijack this thread or generate a controversy.

I met a woman, who's a friend of my friend, and she's training to be a teacher of the deaf and told me about how many students in her course, and how many wants to teach in which communication methods.

I found what she told me interesting. But what captured my interest the most was about a middle-aged woman in the course who had a baby grandson who's deaf. He recently had a CI at 8 months, I think.

And she went to meet the CI doctor and he told her not to use sign language at all with her little grandson.

That struck me as unprofessional. If I were a parent, I would have told him to stick that advice to a place where it doesn't shine.

And it irks me to no end that the doctor's biased because he should have known that sign language, in no way, does impede speech or the child's learning.

As far as I'm concerned every parents with a deaf child should have been given information on every communication methods along withs pros and cons, educational info and information on access to classes, support groups and deaf-related assocations etc.

I wonder how we can do something to change this. I know it's a systematic problem, if I said it right.

Face it, many of those so-called neutral (tongue in cheek) professionals are in it for the money that CI creates for further research and to assimilate deaf kids entirely into hearing world.

I reckon it would have been great if we the deaf community could fund a deaf person to go to medical school, in order to become a CI doctor, so he could encourage parents to use the full toolbox approach....

They have the right to tell parents ALL of the communication and language modalities as well as educational settings available; they also have the right to show most current, up-to-date, vaild research with each option. I mean ALL of the options should be presented to the parents, not just what is best according to the professional's opinion. The professional should state reasons for why she/he thinks this route based on his/her opinion would be best (based on factos such as a child's residual hearing, family's access to resources and therapy (auditory training), primary language used at home, etc.). And the professionals should let the parents know it is THEIR decision on what is right for their child.

 

[lovezebras]

I think some doctors are just plain stupid! For a doctor to not give ALL options to any deaf or hoh child's parents is ridiculous. I wish my doctor's had told my mom that i COULD possibly lose hearing later on because of my chronic ear infections and ear problems that i had as a child. My mom asked if it could be a problem, and they we're like NO she should grow up to be a happy kid with perfect hearing...pfft watever.

I don't get it either, some doctors act like sign language is horrible, but really some doctos even push hearing babies to start to learn sign since it can be benefial in knowing what your child wants and it helps with communication (whether deaf/hoh or hearing). My friends little sister (who is hearing) was taught asl starting when she was a baby (hearing parents as well) because her mom read somewhere it would be good plus her grandma was going deaf and knew asl. She did so well and was happy talking and using asl when she couldn't figure out the word like hungry or tired or something she would sign it, it was very cute actually! But back to the point, i don't think it's fair to tell a parent what they should do for their child. I mean if it was a life threatening and they CANNOT have something than ya, but really wat diff does it matter if the parent want's their child to learn asl, jeese...

 

[cdmeggers]

it's fine if professionals want to make suggestions, but they shouldn't demand that parents not use signs with their deaf children, etc. The parents can decide for themselves what's best for their kids, not the professionals who seem to think they know EVERYTHING and think they're right.

after I became deaf, my parents struggled to communicate with me. They wanted to do ANYTHING it took to communicate with me, but the professionals told them "no signs, no gestures.. if you sign or use gestures with her, then she'll never speak again!" B.S. But did my parents listen? No. They went and took some sign language classes, then helped me learn to communicate. When being tested to see if I was ready for kindergarten, oohh the "professionals" flipped out when my mom demanded they use sign language with me. "But that would be cheating, that would be giving her the answers!" uh what? That was it, we moved from that little town to here, and they put me into the local deaf school which supported both speech and sign language, and mainstreamed us into the next-door public elementary school for a few classes with FM systems and interpreters.

 

[jillio]

I am not arguing with u...just debating with my opinions.

About my previous comment, I meant personal experiences. I mean many of the doctors and audiologists I have met do not even sign so how do they understand the complexity of ASL and language acquisitation in deaf children? Do they see the struggles the kids go through when they dont pick up on spoken language? That kind of thing. Maybe I am not putting my thoughts correctly but I hope u get what I mean. It is the misconception that is out there about ASL interfering with spoken language development.

That's just it. They don't have the knowledge or the expertise regarding language acquisition and anythingother than the medical aspect of deafness. Therefore, when they advise parents not to use sign, they are stepping outside their scope of practice. And this is indeed unethical.

When it comes to issues such as language modality, they need to refer out to someone who does have the expertise just the way a general practitioner refers out when he does not have the expertise to perform a surgery.

 

[ASLGAL]

I think the doctor is negligent in not stating that the parents should decide what and how much immersion in sign/oral/etc stimulation they present to their baby.
Some parents are so over-whelmed that they count on every word a physician states to be golden.


An example:
Ran256 and I have a granddaughter -(5mos. old) - she was a preemie and as far as we know her hearing is ok. Ran256 being HOHw/HA and I have signed to her for most of her 5mos. she smiles very big and appears to understand when he signs her sign name/etc as much as when spoken to.
Some might say she just likes the movement but I believe a child understands and is never too young to experience many forms of communication.