Abortion
- Thread starter JOEBIALEK
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2006
- Messages
- 45,079
- Reaction score
- 322
For some women, they would do anything to avoid having a baby out fear du to some situations so for them, adoption is probably out of the question in their minds.
1st link 2nd link 3rd link
Then please read the book The Chocies We Made: Twenty-five Women and Men Speak Out About Abortion
Written By: Angela Bonavoglia, Date Published: 1991 which described Margot Kidder's abortion experience along with Whoopi Goldberg and many others.
Last edited:
Artist hanged herself after aborting her twins
An artist killed herself after aborting her twins when she was eight weeks pregnant, leaving a note saying: "I should never have had an abortion. I see now I would have been a good mum."
Emma Beck was found hanging at her home in Helston, Cornwall, on Feb 1 2007. She was declared dead early the following day - her 31st birthday.
Her suicide note read: "I told everyone I didn't want to do it, even at the hospital. I was frightened, now it is too late. I died when my babies died. I want to be with my babies: they need me, no-one else does."
The inquest at Truro City Hall heard that Miss Beck had split up with her boyfriend, referred to as "Ben" after he "reacted badly" to the pregnancy.
She saw her GP before the termination, but missed an appointment at a hospital in Penzance. She then cancelled, but later turned up to an appointment at a clinic at Royal Cornwall Hospital in Treliske. The counsellor was on holiday so a doctor referred Miss Beck to a pregnancy counselling telephone service eight days before carrying out the abortion when she was eight weeks pregnant, the inquest heard.
The coroner, Dr Emma Carlyon, ordered that the identities of the doctor who performed the abortion and her lead consultant be kept secret.
The inquest heard that Sylvia Beck, the victim's mother, wrote to the hospital after her daughter's death, saying: "I want to know why she was not given the opportunity to see a counsellor.
"She was only going ahead with the abortion because her boyfriend did not want the twins.
"I believe this is what led Emma to take her own life - she could not live with what she had done."
The doctor said: "I discussed Emma's situation with her, and wrote on the form, 'Unsupported, lives alone, ex-partner aware'.
"It is normal practice to give a woman the number for telephone counselling when a counsellor is not available.
"I am satisfied that everything was done to make sure that Emma consented to the operation.
She added: "We have since appointed more counsellors so there is more holiday cover."
Katie Gibbs, Miss Beck's GP, told the hearing: "She was extremely distressed by the abortion procedure, and I didn't think she ever came to terms with it.
"She had a long history of anxiety and depression. Despite my best efforts, she was not willing to see a counsellor after the termination."
Her boss at the clinic, said: "The time that can be given to a woman by a counsellor is limited in a busy hospital.
"I am satisfied everything was done to make sure Emma was consenting to surgery. I don't feel there was any gap in the counselling service.
"There were lots of individuals who would be alert to any doubts. The comments made by Emma's mother are not about a doctor I recognise."
Mrs Beck told the court: "Emma was considered a talented artist, and sold a number of paintings.
"She was pleased when she became pregnant, but Ben reacted badly to the news."
Recording a verdict of suicide, Dr Carlyon said: "It is clear that a termination can have a profound effect on a woman's life.
"But I am reassured by the evidence of the doctors here."
Source
An artist killed herself after aborting her twins when she was eight weeks pregnant, leaving a note saying: "I should never have had an abortion. I see now I would have been a good mum."
Emma Beck was found hanging at her home in Helston, Cornwall, on Feb 1 2007. She was declared dead early the following day - her 31st birthday.
Her suicide note read: "I told everyone I didn't want to do it, even at the hospital. I was frightened, now it is too late. I died when my babies died. I want to be with my babies: they need me, no-one else does."
The inquest at Truro City Hall heard that Miss Beck had split up with her boyfriend, referred to as "Ben" after he "reacted badly" to the pregnancy.
She saw her GP before the termination, but missed an appointment at a hospital in Penzance. She then cancelled, but later turned up to an appointment at a clinic at Royal Cornwall Hospital in Treliske. The counsellor was on holiday so a doctor referred Miss Beck to a pregnancy counselling telephone service eight days before carrying out the abortion when she was eight weeks pregnant, the inquest heard.
The coroner, Dr Emma Carlyon, ordered that the identities of the doctor who performed the abortion and her lead consultant be kept secret.
The inquest heard that Sylvia Beck, the victim's mother, wrote to the hospital after her daughter's death, saying: "I want to know why she was not given the opportunity to see a counsellor.
"She was only going ahead with the abortion because her boyfriend did not want the twins.
"I believe this is what led Emma to take her own life - she could not live with what she had done."
The doctor said: "I discussed Emma's situation with her, and wrote on the form, 'Unsupported, lives alone, ex-partner aware'.
"It is normal practice to give a woman the number for telephone counselling when a counsellor is not available.
"I am satisfied that everything was done to make sure that Emma consented to the operation.
She added: "We have since appointed more counsellors so there is more holiday cover."
Katie Gibbs, Miss Beck's GP, told the hearing: "She was extremely distressed by the abortion procedure, and I didn't think she ever came to terms with it.
"She had a long history of anxiety and depression. Despite my best efforts, she was not willing to see a counsellor after the termination."
Her boss at the clinic, said: "The time that can be given to a woman by a counsellor is limited in a busy hospital.
"I am satisfied everything was done to make sure Emma was consenting to surgery. I don't feel there was any gap in the counselling service.
"There were lots of individuals who would be alert to any doubts. The comments made by Emma's mother are not about a doctor I recognise."
Mrs Beck told the court: "Emma was considered a talented artist, and sold a number of paintings.
"She was pleased when she became pregnant, but Ben reacted badly to the news."
Recording a verdict of suicide, Dr Carlyon said: "It is clear that a termination can have a profound effect on a woman's life.
"But I am reassured by the evidence of the doctors here."
Source
I don't see how that's really.. relevant. The article clearly states she had a long history of depression, existing BEFORE she ever had an abortion. She may not have had the coping mechanisms to handle the feelings that occured after the abortion, sure, but that doesn't mean it killed her.
I've read that story. I found it really sad and I think it goes to show how some women are pressurized into having abortions by their partners. In fact this is quite common. So much for a woman's choice.
The bit about her having past experiences of depression is in quotes. They are obviously just trying to pass the buck because she wasn't given councilling when she really needed it. It just goes to show how irresponsible these people are.
jillio
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2006
- Messages
- 60,232
- Reaction score
- 19
What about it? Adoption was available prior to Roe v Wade, and women still chose illegal abortion.
jillio
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2006
- Messages
- 60,232
- Reaction score
- 19
Nor can it ever be determined that she would have had the emotional and mental stability to actually raise a child. Thinking about it and doing it are two separate issues.
- Joined
- May 11, 2007
- Messages
- 6,879
- Reaction score
- 7
Out of curiousity.
- How many women out of 1,000 women had abortions IN EUROPE?
- How many women out of 1,000 women had abortions IN ASIA?
I already know USA is highest rate, but I now don't remember a rate of women who have their abortions in other countries.
One shot of my thought--
I believe it's best way is:
* All schools should have an open meeting for any parent (it's after school's over or during summer break IS THE BEST OPTION, imo.), to clear their senses what positive and negative views are. We should encourage to be a little more open-mindness for general sex education, information, birth contorls, etc etc. I, again, believe in parents and children will improve their trustwhole skills and bond if they are more open-mindness.
* Adding more young parent schools/houses (or something places) to teach them well. It's not matter how old they are. I also think those students of public schools should visit young parent schools/houses, because they will realize how reality of parenthood as it suppose be.
* Elementary & preschool schools should teach children to know each name of a human body, inculding private parts. I meant, what if a strange touchs a child's private stuff and child will not understand what a strange is doing? I believe that a parent teaches a child at very young age, that would be helpful. Of course, children should know "dont talk to strangers" subject too.
* Fourth graders and middle school students should to learn how to be manner, positive behavior & attitude, and personality too. It's NOT for getting attention, "sex is cool" subject, and crazy games for some nasty stuff that I used to witness them.
I can't think of more things now.
All of above could be reduce a rate of abortions and adoptions as my own opinion.
Okay, I am done. I really dont want to see many abortions or adoptions because it's on base of personal hurtful feelings & dark scars. Unfortunately, it must be hard to reduce a rate of those, I aware that...
Hmm, thought?
PS- I know I said it again, aha. But I said it again when I got little more new ideas.
- How many women out of 1,000 women had abortions IN EUROPE?
- How many women out of 1,000 women had abortions IN ASIA?
I already know USA is highest rate, but I now don't remember a rate of women who have their abortions in other countries.
One shot of my thought--
I believe it's best way is:
* All schools should have an open meeting for any parent (it's after school's over or during summer break IS THE BEST OPTION, imo.), to clear their senses what positive and negative views are. We should encourage to be a little more open-mindness for general sex education, information, birth contorls, etc etc. I, again, believe in parents and children will improve their trustwhole skills and bond if they are more open-mindness.
* Adding more young parent schools/houses (or something places) to teach them well. It's not matter how old they are. I also think those students of public schools should visit young parent schools/houses, because they will realize how reality of parenthood as it suppose be.
* Elementary & preschool schools should teach children to know each name of a human body, inculding private parts. I meant, what if a strange touchs a child's private stuff and child will not understand what a strange is doing? I believe that a parent teaches a child at very young age, that would be helpful. Of course, children should know "dont talk to strangers" subject too.
* Fourth graders and middle school students should to learn how to be manner, positive behavior & attitude, and personality too. It's NOT for getting attention, "sex is cool" subject, and crazy games for some nasty stuff that I used to witness them.
I can't think of more things now.
All of above could be reduce a rate of abortions and adoptions as my own opinion.
Okay, I am done. I really dont want to see many abortions or adoptions because it's on base of personal hurtful feelings & dark scars. Unfortunately, it must be hard to reduce a rate of those, I aware that...
Hmm, thought?
PS- I know I said it again, aha. But I said it again when I got little more new ideas.
- Joined
- May 11, 2007
- Messages
- 6,879
- Reaction score
- 7
Psst.. Don't you realize we had been talked about the same topic for quite longer time? Hmmm...
Obviously you're missing the point, the decision to abort her twins was clearly not by her choice. If they knew her history of depression, then wouldn't allow her to go through this.
There are several women that has long history of depression, how many more women do you want to see die from attempt suicide before someone would step in and help them?
Everyone Struggles...
The feeling of a life being killed is a common thread throughout the testimonies of women before, during, and after an abortion. According to one woman, interviewed in a clinic's waiting room: "It's killing. But it justifiable homicide." Another, shortly after her abortion, says: "Like when you have an abortion you're just destroying a part of yourself. That's the way I feel anyhow. I just feel bad inside, that's all. I didn't really want to do it. It's a sin."
Still another woman, describes her feelings after an abortion, saying: "I hated myself. I felt abandoned and lost. There was no one's shoulder to cry on, and I wanted to cry like hell. And I felt guilty about killing something. I couldn't get it out of my head that I'd just killed a baby."
For some the anticipation of guilt itself moves them toward acts of self-punishment. An example of this is reported in a New York Times interview with American women who have traveled to England for RU-486 abortions. A woman from Pennsylvania explained that for her there were "psychological advantages" to the harrowing experience of repeated clinic visits for RU-486 and prostaglandin injections and in the six hours or more of labor pains to expel a dead human fetus. "I didn't want to just zip in and be put to sleep and zip out in two hours with it all done," she explains. "In a way, that would have been too easy. This was a big painful decision for me. I would have felt irresponsible if it had just been over with like that. I wanted to remember this all my life. I never want to do it again."
For this woman the price for an abortion must be measured in something more than negotiable currency. The act must be etched in one's memory with proper solemnity. Physical and emotional pain are the only fitting tributes which can be made to a life denied.
Even for those who deny the humanity of their unborn child, there is a often an admission that this denial can be maintained only by a conscious effort. For example, one woman writes: "I didn't think of it as a baby. I just didn't want to think of it that way."
Another insists that denial is the only way to deal with it: "I made up my mind to do it, and like I could let it drive me crazy, any woman could, but you can't, because you've got to live with it and there's really no sense in letting it drive you right off the edge."8
For others, even the process of discussing their experience threatens their precarious equilibrium. For example, one woman interviewed in a clinic as she awaited her third abortion at first insisted she had adjusted well to her first two abortions, but then she went on to describe experiencing symptoms which are now identified as part of post-abortion syndrome. She found herself confessing that she had developed a compulsive fascination with other people's children, outbursts of rage, and periods of depression and substance abuse. As she heard herself describing these problems, which she herself attributed to her previous abortions, she began to doubt what she should believe, finally concluding: "Maybe I should go to a psychiatrist, but I really don't have the money or the interest. Truth is hard to take, and I just don't know if I'm ready for it."
What is the truth, which she already knows, but is too "hard to take?" Abortion destroys a human life. Moreover, this life is her own child. This human life is also the progeny of her male partner. And their parents. And their grandparents. In this way, abortion is even more than a profound moral issue; it is a familial issue. The abortion experience not only defines how she sees herself, it also defines how she sees her family.
Women Who Abort
jillio
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2006
- Messages
- 60,232
- Reaction score
- 19
There have also been cases of women who suffer from long term depression who think they are capable of having children, only to end up abusing and neglecting them because they are not stable enough to be a parent. At the very worst, there are cases of women with a history of depression so severe that they go into a psychotic break and kill their children. Just because a woman with a history of mental disorder says they "think" they would have been a good parent, doesn't mean they actually would have been able to handle the stress of parenthood. And, if she committed suicide, obviously, it was due to her ongoing depression, and her inability to deal with stress in a healthy way. Likewise, if she gave into the pressure of others when the abortion was something she truly did not want, then that tells quite a bit about her mental state.
- Joined
- May 11, 2007
- Messages
- 6,879
- Reaction score
- 7
Is it not allow to support her needs and love, because it's not our busniess? Like as if, we let her to be happened because we can do nothing what we can do because of her choice made, is that correct?
If a mother is not ready to be parent and to end up being abusive parent, then will I regert for not supporting her decision to abort her child? All I do is nothing to help her out but to whine how it is my fault, because it's not my business right?
It's hard to believe... I believe there is a best way to help her out... Just thought.
jillio
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2006
- Messages
- 60,232
- Reaction score
- 19
Of course it permitted to support her in other ways. But the fact of the matter is that these cases do happen on a regular basis. And just because a woman claims that she believed that she would be a good mother does not make it so. She blames the abortion for her suicide....but obviously she had a histroy of mental difficulties prior to ever having an abortion. Maybe she should have been supported so that she could have prevented the pregnancy. Maybe she should have received better mental health services. But if people did not realize that she was depressed enough to commit suicide until after the fact, then the chances are pretty great that she could have abused or neglected a baby for quite some time before anyone even realized it was happening. Would you have the same sympathy for her if she had had the baby, went into a psychotic break due to increased risk of severe post partum depression, and then killed the baby?
- Joined
- May 11, 2007
- Messages
- 6,879
- Reaction score
- 7
Apparently, no one helps her... =/ How could people so blind if it's a warning sign of her action... If people notice a sign of hers, how could people ignore hers? That's what I thought.
If I notice a red flag on any one of my related family, I'd rather to help her out of grave situation. I can e-mail a counselor to support her, I make sure she is donig okay, and I'd rather to do my best to support her for her own sake. To take her a parent class at any college or something place. In note, it's not GOING to be easy... Pretty frustrating. I just don't want to sit back and to whine how I regert for it, I take an action and do something.
jillio
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2006
- Messages
- 60,232
- Reaction score
- 19
Apparently, no one helps her... =/ How could people so blind if it's a warning sign of her action... If people notice a sign of hers, how could people ignore hers? That's what I thought.
If I notice a red flag on any one of my related family, I'd rather to help her out of grave situation. I can e-mail a counselor to support her, I make sure she is donig okay, and I'd rather to do my best to support her for her own sake. To take her a parent class at any college or something place. In note, it's not GOING to be easy... Pretty frustrating. I just don't want to sit back and to whine how I regert for it, I take an action and do something.
You are a very caring individual. Your family is lucky to have you. Unfortunately, too many families will ignore the warning signs because they don't want to face the fact that their family member is mentally ill. I had a case just two weeks ago: the daughter had been diagnosed with schizophrenia. She was receiving SSI. Her family would allow her to stay with them until she paid their bills with her SSI check, and then when she was out of money,they would put her out. She had been living on the streets for 2 weeks when we got ahold of her. We phoned her doctor and got her meds refilled (she had been without for 2 weeks) and she called her sister, her mother, and her father to please go pick up her meds and bring them to the shelter. She tried for 3 days to get them to do that for her. They never brought her meds. At around 10:00 on the 4th evening, she went into a full blown psychotic break and started hearing voices telling her to kill herself and she became hysterical. It took me an hour to calm her down just so I could leave her long enough to call paramedics. She was admitted to the psych ward, and has since been transferred to an in-patient treatment center. She also has an 8 year old daughter who is in foster care because her family will not take responsibility for the child's care.
This kind of thing happens quite often. And it is unbelievable sad: sad for the person suffereing from the mental illness, and sad for the child that is shuffled from one foster home to another. When she got pregnant, I'm sure she thought that she would be able to be a good mother, too. But her illnesshas prevented her from doing that. It isn;t that she doesn't want to be a good mother. It is that she is ill, and her illness will not allow her to properly take care of herself, much less a child. That is what I am talking about when I say that thinking you can be a responsible parent, and actually being able to be a responsible parent are 2 different things. And families are not always as willing to help as you might think.
Not at least partly to blame for this tragedy? I'm not saying that most women who had an abortion end up commit suicide but some do, and they did not have a history of depression. Some women felt emotional, sadness, shame, regret, abandoned, lost, suffer trauma or felt pressured into having an abortion etc.
I can see a woman who was completely clueless on how to deal with the lost of her twins because depression is a very serious illness, and they should have provide her the help from a professional counselor or therapist if they knew the history of her depression.
I realizes that could happen, but I do not want to quick to judge someone without walking a miles in their shoes ya know so I
..This is a hard one.