Language differences....

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Audiofuzzy said:
Recently on the other forum I was accused of being disrespectful because
I dared to point out how some deaf members seem not be understanding written hearing English well.

So ? Why do you care ? We accept them for who and what they are. We accept them by tryin' to get to know them. If, not understand what they mean, ask them to explain. Plain and simple.

First of all I wasn't disrespectful, I just stated a fact, fact that is the root of majority of problems between hearing posters and some deaf posters, resulting in unpleasant, lenghty, uneccessary exchanges which eventually hurt everybody, and because of that nobody learns anything positive.

Who started it ? YOU. You were picky on some of them especially me, Angel, Cheri and Lieblin'. The way I see it, you think yours were better than us - oh, just because you were kept talkin' about it repeatly and you still are. You refused to stop, because you don't accept us for what and who we really are.

I think anybody who says there is no language problem here is avoiding the truth. And the problem. I think anybody who insist that there are no deaf members whose enviroment affected their written and oral language, is fooling themselves and not being realistic.

Says who ? You are foolin' yourself and not bein' realistic. This is the real world we are livin' in and the way we write are bein' realistic - it shows our genuine selves. Where's yours ? I don't see none, because you kept belittlin' us and criticize our language in written.



There IS such thing like ASL affected written English. This might not be a proper name for it, if you know one I'll be happy to know and use it.
And this is nothing to be ashamed of or belittling - this just a fact, a reality - deaf people DO often have different syntax, grammar because of their deafness (indirectly). So understandable.
It's just a FACT. Why deny truth?
It is the same thing as the fact that many deaf people have affected speech - it's just a result of being deaf, so understandable.

I am hopin' one of moderators will ban you again, if you keep up belittin' me, Angel, Cheri and Lieblin'.

Likewise, I observed that because of that - using English in different way- some deaf people have a problem understanding written English.

And this is important issue. Because inability to understand written words leds to misunderstandings, misinterpretations, missing the points and receiving incorrect messages.

Yet instead of wanting to solve this problem to better communication, looks like nobody is interested in getting to the root of this BIG problem! On the contrary - looks like no one want to admit at all there is a problem.
why is that?

Fuzzy
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We came from different background, environment, and all. You can't expect us to be all the same as ONE AudioFuzzy. You must be insane, if you expect us to be just like you. I prefer different people and accept them - more thrill to learn somethin' new rather than havin' all the same as AudioFuzzy. Forget it... it ain't no fun, if not at all. Borin', too.

Learn to move on and accept us for what and who we really are. Period.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
I think anybody who says there is no language problem here is avoiding the truth. And the problem. I think anybody who insist that there are no deaf members whose enviroment affected their written and oral language, is fooling themselves and not being realistic.
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Agree.


Audiofuzzy said:
There IS such thing like ASL affected written English. This might not be a proper name for it, if you know one I'll be happy to know and use it.
And this is nothing to be ashamed of or belittling - this just a fact, a reality - deaf people DO often have different syntax, grammar because of their deafness (indirectly). So understandable.
It's just a FACT. Why deny truth?
It is the same thing as the fact that many deaf people have affected speech - it's just a result of being deaf, so understandable.

Likewise, I observed that because of that - using English in different way- some deaf people have a problem understanding written English.
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Agree.


Audiofuzzy said:
And this is important issue. Because inability to understand written words leds to misunderstandings, misinterpretations, missing the points and receiving incorrect messages.

Yet instead of wanting to solve this problem to better communication, looks like nobody is interested in getting to the root of this BIG problem! On the contrary - looks like no one want to admit at all there is a problem.
why is that?
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I think for a few reasons. 1) Pride, 2) past hurt, and 3) "not on home field".

I know that I hate discussions about my speech. I am sensitive about speech after speech therapy forever (even now in college) and too many people saying that my speech is different. I admit, Fuzzy! ;) I know signs and then ASL. My family used ASL, and I guess that's all was needed for me :). Even with HAs I miss a lot (without HAs - nothing but very loud, near noise). My voice is quiet and I speak fast when excited or nervous = always almost when speaking. Hearing people say I can't be heard/understood often unless they know me. After years of discussions about needing better speech and years of working on writing I don't want to think always about this. Especially in forums for support and fun. And some probably hate discussions about writing like I hate about speech because of similar problems. So pride and past hurt. And - I admit - for me some lazyness at times. I just want to write and not worry all times. I worry enough about communication.

And "not on home field": If someone writes badly, I think he is doing the best possible now. He maybe is working hard to be understood. Miscommunication and misunderstanding happens with 2 languages. More patient and less judgment is needed from all. And - not to insult hearing - hearing people need to understand when a HoH/deaf person writes odd or hurtful that the same may "sound" better in ASL, with no offense meant.

Have to write a class paper - more writing! :P
 
First off -- "written hearing English"?
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yes, I don't know how to really describe the English that is used commonly in books, magazines, newspapers, radio, TV movies, among hearing people etc. If you know or have a suggestion I would welcome it.
It is important to me as I have in mind THIS specific English.


Second of all, what I see on this forum isn't that far off from what I see on forums populated (as far as I know) entirely by hearing people.
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No its' not far off with some few exception, but it is sometime OFF, and that is what I am concerned with.

Third, I'm sure it would be nice if we could turn back the clock and provide a wonderful bi-bi education to every deaf person who was failed by an ignorant and in some cases worse-than-nothing public educational system. This is more or less my job at the moment with the deaf college students I teach who cannot write a simple English sentence with one subject and one verb.
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In other words, you do CONFIRM there ARE some language delays or whatever that causes some deaf people to have "different" English, for the lack of better word. And I agree with you- there is always the reason why it happened while it shouldn't have, but right now I am not discussing it.
It is valid aspect just for this thread, please.

So why don't I care about it on AD? Because I come here to learn from people and enjoy camaraderie.
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But if the differences in language cause communication problems among members?

Fuzzy
 
I know this thread is direct to me because of that Audiofuzzy pointed out in another thread that I for one do not understand written English and that my writing skills is ASL.
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Actually NO IT IS NOT directed at you Cheri, and I think you are rather too full of it if you think I would start a special thread because of you, for God sake.

yes I do had you in mind, AND also a number of OTHER people I had major problems communicating with - your sister, Liebling, Maria, PuyoPiyo to name just a few.
And once again, I have started this thread because I am CONCERNED about those misunderstadings and would like to find a way to fix it OK? It would be nice if instead of ASSUMING what this thread is about you actually put some effort toward resolve as well.


I don't like getting criticism based on how I write, Is there some type of competition based on who can read and write no matter how good or bad?
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Nobody likes it, and it's understandable, and of course there is NO ENGLISH WRITTING COMPETITION but THERE IS A PROBLEM - A COMMUNICATION PROBLEM i'd like to address.


Everyone has their own perspectives on how good they write, Every individuals have their own writing styles in different way it's never the same.
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Exactly, everyone thinks he/she writes good - what if that is not the reality, and that person refuses to accept it?

You said that some of us don't understand written English, because of some of us misunderstood, misinterpretation, missed the point of their posts, sometimes that can cause from reading so fast and perhaps miss the whole concept of the point of their post, but that can happen to anyone not those who are deaf.
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I am sorry - I am speechless - are you really expecting me to swallow this?
so, if you actually understood what I was about - are you expecting me after what you and some of you put me thru to chalk it up to just "oh, I just read it fast"??? EXCUSE ME????
but no I don't think you and other ever got my point, that was going on for too long to be a case of "fast reading". but I do know what you mean.


I don't like how you pin down some of us, when it can happen to everyone of us from time to time.
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You have to realise the only communicative problems I have are with you and those I named. And I am NOT putting you down by pointing this out - but because this is reality which should be dealt with, and I for one am ready to DEAL WITH IT. I WANT TO deal with it. Do YOU?


Fuzzy
 
GalaxyAngel said:
This forum isn't discrimination their structure languages. Like everyone feel comfortable written their languages. If you don't understand theirs.. Why can't you try ask the person, Can you explain clarifty what their expection defnation to you..
Clear it up than keep push their mouth off..
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Agree 100%!
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Actually NO IT IS NOT directed at you Cheri, and I think you are rather too full of it if you think I would start a special thread because of you, for God sake.

yes I do had you in mind, AND also a number of OTHER people I had major problems communicating with - your sister, Liebling, Maria, PuyoPiyo to name just a few.
And once again, I have started this thread because I am CONCERNED about those misunderstadings and would like to find a way to fix it OK? It would be nice if instead of ASSUMING what this thread is about you actually put some effort toward resolve as well.



You have to realise the only communicative problems I have are with you and those I named. And I am NOT putting you down by pointing this out - but because this is reality which should be dealt with, and I for one am ready to DEAL WITH IT. I WANT TO deal with it. Do YOU?


Fuzzy
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Fuzzy.. be realistic!!! You CANNOT fix anybody's problems. You need to fix your own, honey. You're just making it difficult. As I was looking in the threads and posts. NOBODY seems to have a problem understanding those who you named. Geez. You are the only one that don't. get over it and shut the hell up.


I just can't believe you. You just can't go up and tell them in their faces and say.. "your english is so bad and I can help you fix it right" no thanks. i'd spit in your face and tell you to get lost. I'm sorry.. but I don't agree a thing you say.
 
I understand both sides of this argument.

If I choose to vacation in China, I will learn Chinese. If I choose to live there, I will learn to be fluent. Communicating by written word on a message board is the same concept.

It is our responsibility, out of respect for those with whom we spend time, to communicate well... whether it is written, spoken or signed.

All that said, I actually learn about ASL syntax by reading the words written by those who usually communicate by speaking with their hands.

In order for me to get a good grasp of ASL, I have to teach my brain how to speak with my hands. Even more difficult will be learning to do this with LESS words than my brain usually generates. I've been doing that my whole life!

Hearies are WORD-Y! :blah:

In a perfect world, we'd all know how to communicate fluently in all languages. But the world is not perfect. So, rather than jump all over someone for not writing well, I will appreciate that they're teaching me ASL without using their hands!

Did that make sense?
 
Makes perfect sense to me.

You know what, to me, deafies are wordy! LOL You talk a LOT and FAST!

I really love the facial part of speaking ASL. I used to say to myself, "They are so animated!" LOL

SEE is the way for me right now. Trying to get ASL, I feel like I did in Freshman year Spanish!
"yo tengooooo..." :lol:
 
Audiofuzzy--

If you want to continue argue until your face turns blue then go, be so arrogant and so stubborn, It seems to me you wanna be more right, smarter than everyone else, argue over anything just to be right and you'll fight to death for believing that you are right, Your mind is made up, and no one is going to change that.

And for that I have nothing farther to say to you. :ty:
 
oh man not again *thud*

can you move on about that fuzzy

who cares about writing English people change english all the time like slangs and shorting the english languages for the ages of technology like computers, IMS and etc...
i am out of here with my head shaking (smh)
 
Tousi said:
Basically, Fuzzy, the truth of the matter here is an attitudinal one; you burned your bridges here past the point where some people do not want to focus on anything you say/ask anymore. That's how I see it, given what has happened in the last couple of weeks.
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I think you hit the nail on the head, Tousi. Not to mention which, as fuzzy is so quick to criticize other deaf posters for grammatical errors, she is failing to recognize that she has many problems not just with her grammar, but with her pragmatic use of language, as well. The pragmatics usage is the most telling part, and is very typical of deaf individuals whohave been raised in an oral environment. She appears to be unable to discern when her language is offensive to others, as well as when her syntax is confusing and her grammar is in error.
 
Keanusmom said:
That will do it!

I remember when I was in middle school (7-8 grade), I was in "Mentally Gifted" classes which challenged us more than average because we were the smart kids (or whatever!) I used to get called all kinds of names because I used big-A words. It wasn't because I was trying to be a smart ass, it was because it was MY language. Everyone in my family (at the time) were Educators, so slang and misuse of words was simply unacceptable. People wouldn't want to be my friend because they felt stupid around me. *shrug* I now know how to talk to people from all walks of life using simple un-offensive words and getting my point accross. I ALSO know how to slay someone with my tongue if deemed necessary! LOL (I am the queen of cussing people out!)

All that to say, I had to realize that when I am in a setting unfamiliar to my background, I need to act acceptable to be accepted. Understand to be understood. And be nice to have others be nice when addressing me.
(There is a line from the Bible that alludes to this type of behavior) :D

I tell you what, the people here are being a LOT nicer than I would have if I thought you were picking a fight with me! LOL

Just something to think about in your future postings.
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:gpost: Understand to be understood....what a wonderful phrase!
 
Audiofuzzy said:
yes, I don't know how to really describe the English that is used commonly in books, magazines, newspapers, radio, TV movies, among hearing people etc. If you know or have a suggestion I would welcome it.
It is important to me as I have in mind THIS specific English.
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Standard English.

Keep in mind you don't use it yourself, so railing against those who don't is somewhat hypocritical, no?
 
this is amazing, just amazing...

I simply say - "there is communication problem due to a different written English level among posters. The result of this is - one not understanding the other well, or at all".
this is serious problem, and yet who is interested in solving it but me? NOBODY.


Everybody with one or two honorable exceptions are bickering, evading, derailing and talk about some imagined by them problems they have with me, despite that my posts shows CLEARLY I am not talking about none of the things they accuse me of. More than that -they are doing it in the FACE of my EXPLANATIONS.


Basically, Fuzzy, the truth of the matter here is an attitudinal one; you burned your bridges here past the point where some people do not want to focus on anything you say/ask anymore. That's how I see it, given what has happened in the last couple of weeks.
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Bingo. You hit the nail on the head.
Looks like after all it's not so much the language indeed as an attitude.
You forgot about something very important Tousi, though - no matter who we like or dislike, we are obliged to be fair to anyone. no buts or ifs.
have you ever seen a judge who punished someone simply out if disliking him? or there are objective facts to consider first?

(I am the queen of cussing people out!)
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Congratulations :)
The stupidest, least intelligent people who'se brain was half baked from drugs which I had misfortune to come across in my life were unable to utter even one, simple, coherent sentence that wasn't comprised of most foul swear words only.
I approximate their IQ level as barely reaching three digits, some even haven't got that much. And you consider cussing to China stars your greatest accomplishment? go figure. clap clap clap.


Fuzzy, You're basically pointing at "Deaf" people for how they read and write, "type". Do you have a problem with them writing their own words in ASL?
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I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with HOW it is affecting communciation. Got it?

This forum isn't discrimination their structure languages. Like everyone feel comfortable written their languages. If you don't understand theirs.. Why can't you try ask the person,
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Okay - do tell me what do you say to people if the person to whom you are saying "THAT IS NOT WHAT I MEAN" answers you - yes it is. NO, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND - yes I do! yes I do!
over and over and over and over and over and over again :)

see - the thing is I do understand what others are saying to me. if I am not sure, I ask. it's THEM who don't understand what I am saying and yet insist they do..

Why are u pointing at deaf people for this issue?
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So, in your opinion I should ignore the fact how some people can't understand what am I saying, and let them say whatever they want to me or about me even if this NOT WHAT I MEANT? especially when the things they are saying about me are not true?



NO wonder why she doesn't understand the different cultures but her own!
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You know nothing about me- how come are you passing judgement?

You can't expect us to be all the same as ONE AudioFuzzy. You must be insane, if you expect us to be just like you.
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How many more times do I have to tell you I do not expect anybody to be like me?

And "not on home field": If someone writes badly, I think he is doing the best possible now.
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I do realise that. this is not why I started talking about that, I started talking about that because communication between me and some people got increasingly difficult. I don't blame these people for their English. But I was telling them over and over THIS IS NOT WHAT I MEAN - and it was disregarded, just like that . I am tired of this.


If I choose to vacation in China, I will learn Chinese. If I choose to live there, I will learn to be fluent. Communicating by written word on a message board is the same concept.
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You are right, but only partially.
I don't have to learn ASL in order to be understood here.
what is only needed - the willingness to accept it's true when I say: THAT IS NOT WHAT I MEAN. That is all I need.

Your mind is made up, and no one is going to change that.
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AND SO IS YOURS, honey. do consider this, though, and please:

what is only needed - the willingness to accept it's true when I say: THAT IS NOT WHAT I MEAN. That is all I need.


Fuzzy
 
Standard English.

Keep in mind you don't use it yourself, so railing against those who don't is somewhat hypocritical, no?
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Thank you.

And you- please keep in mind I never claimed to have prefect English, and I am not critizing anybody, either - I am telling the facts as they are in order to get problem solved - which is faulty communication due to the differences in English.

If you happened to be on the hypothetical English forum full of immigrants with various command of English, and you could tell some didn't get your message at all - after repeated failed attempts to set them straight -do you consider telling them that due to their less than perfect English comprehension they for sure didn't get it - critizing, or pointing to the root of the problem?

Fuzzy
 
RebelGirl said:
OHH.. I know what the problem is now... Audio doesn't SIGN! NO wonder why she doesn't understand the different cultures but her own! Who are you to JUDGE!?
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*nodding agreement*
 
It has nothing do with your written English but your disrespectful manner toward posters...
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whether or not someone is disrespectful or not, this is NO EXCUSE to say untrue things about him/her, or inaccurate, or flat out accuse of something that wasn't done. that is one.

two. I was disrespectful no more than anybody else toward me, and some other hearing posters- the rest is in your head. or should I say- some heads.
most of the time I was POLITELY stating my views. I was risking ban, remember?

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
How many more times do I have to tell you I do not expect anybody to be like me?

Fuzzy
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Now you UNDERSTAND how ADers includin' me feel when you kept talkin' about me, Cheri, Angel and Lieblin' about our written English/language.

If, you keep your mouth shut about our written English/language, then we all would be fine and get along great.

You still kept talkin' about it over and over and over - it gets to the point of nowhere. You are just like a little and harrassin' mouse. So picky ! You will NEVER find a nice and delicious cheese!

Why don't you just stop talkin' about our written English/language ? I can see that you are very obsessed over our written English/language. You don't know how to let it go.

Now, the question is : How come you can't let it go and MOVE ON ?? Learn to forget about our written English/language and say somethin' else instead ? You need to talk about YOURSELF, your experiences, your point of view what the topic is about, and all that - that related to yourself. It's not necessary for you to criticize ADers' written English or language. Just let them be them.

I just couldn't believe that you are really 50 years old - Gee, I just couldn't believe it !
 
Now you UNDERSTAND how ADers includin' me feel when you kept talkin' about me, Cheri, Angel and Lieblin' about our written English/language.

If, you keep your mouth shut about our written English/language, then we all would be fine and get along great.
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No, I don't.
NO I DON'T. you continually accuse me of wanting others to be like me. every time I say to you "NO, I DO NOT".

and I asked again:
How many more times do I have to tell you I do not expect anybody to be like me?
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and your reply is "Now you see?" NO I DON'T, sorry. I see an answer totally unrelated to what was discussed.

If I "keep my mouth shut"?? is that polite way to address someone, or DISRESPECTFUL?

Fuzzy
 
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