Hearies view on a CI kid... its a bummer

[Audiofuzzy]

A lot of hearing parents robbed a deaf child of ability to be deaf and don't believed that deaf children could live productive lives with various of communication to choose from. Nobody said anything about keeping the child in the deaf culture only, Many of us have said to exposed the child in both worlds. Don't start twisting words around.

A lot of deaf parents robbed a deaf child of ability to hear and speak and don't believed that deaf children could live productive lives with various of communication to choose from. Nobody said anything about keeping the child in the hearing culture only, Many of us have said to exposed the child in both worlds.

Don't start twisting words around

EXACTLY.

Most hearing parents are too lazy to spare the time and day to learn sign language as another form of communication with their child. They always seem to find the easy way out as having their child to reply on speech only because of that, that's what kind of language of communication they use in the household.

Most deaf parents are too lazy to spare the time and day to learn spoken and written language as another form of communication with their child. They always seem to find the easy way out as having their child to reply on sign only because of that, that's what kind of language of communication they use in the household.

It is important to understand the full nature of their child, not by "fixing me to be hearing" What's more important is to work with deaf children on language development by a speech-language specialist. A child can do that without even needed of an implant. If I learned it, any deaf can too.

It is important to understand the full nature of their child, not by "fixing me to be deaf" What's more important is to work with deaf children on language development by early implantation and a speech-language specialist. A child can do that FAR MORE BETTER with an implant. If many learned it, any deaf can too.

Fuzzy

 

[shel90]

A lot of deaf parents robbed a deaf child of ability to hear and speak and don't believed that deaf children could live productive lives with various of communication to choose from. Nobody said anything about keeping the child in the hearing culture only, Many of us have said to exposed the child in both worlds.
EXACTLY.




Most deaf parents are too lazy to spare the time and day to learn spoken and written language as another form of communication with their child. They always seem to find the easy way out as having their child to reply on sign only because of that, that's what kind of language of communication they use in the household.






It is important to understand the full nature of their child, not by "fixing me to be deaf" What's more important is to work with deaf children on language development by early implantation and a speech-language specialist. A child can do that FAR MORE BETTER with an implant. If many learned it, any deaf can too.

Fuzzy

What if the deaf parents were unable to develop spoken language??? My brother struggled in his first 5 years of life in an oral only environment to develop spoken language so he was unable to do so even if he tried. If he has kids, he wouldnt be able to communicate with them using spoken language but hearing parents CAN learn sign..all it takes at least one working hand!

U respect hearing people but what about respecting deaf people too?

Ok...if deaf parents are too lazy to learn how to use oral skills with their own deaf kids then hearing parents are too lazy to learn sign language with their own hearing kids.

The logic doesnt make sense so why should deaf parents follow the hearing way because hearing people say so? That's wrong on many levels.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

One of my students this year got implanted and she can easily use spoken language just as the same with my other student who was referred from the oral program who has no implant. He can speak well enough too.

My best friend is profoundly deaf since birth and she can talk on the phone. No implants. My other friend who was born deaf speaks fluent Spanish due to growing up in Puerto Rico..she has no implants. There are so many more..

Shel, you admitted to NOT KNOWING why some children in your program don't seem to have benefits from the CI.
And judging by what you just wrote, I see clearly that you have no knowldge why some deaf people can speak while some not. You just see it, you don't know WHY it is.
You have no clue about their full, detailed medical history, developmental history, even psychological history. YET YOU pass these cases as "proof. What kind of proof is that? it doesn't prove anything, and it's as good as garbage, I am sorry to say because I am 100% convinced if we started to dig deeper we would find out the WHY, and that finally would make sense.

A deaf person born with severe to profound hearing loss WILL NOT learn to speak just like that!!! there must be extraordinairy circumstances for that to happen.

My best friend is profoundly deaf since birth and she can talk on the phone.

Really? But how WELL?
I don't believe for a minute she can speak as any normal hearing person. Heck, I don't believe she understand 2/3 of what she hears. Guesses, yes but not HEARS.
I can talk on the phone too, so what? It's not easy, I don't get everything what is said, and it is very exhausting. But for someone standing from a distance I seem to be able to "talk on the phone".

If you intend to prove a deaf person without CI is as able to communicate verbally as a deaf person without CI, first get your facts backed up by something with substance- like having your examples presented with complete detailed medical and life history of that person.

I have seen deaf people "talking on the phone". And for every ONE person who can, there is 20 that CAN'T.

Yes, it makes it easier but if one's life's quality is measured on how well they can hear then that means there is the assumption that all deaf people who dont have implants lead a poor quality life. Interesting.

If somebody says "if you start exercising your quality of life will improve" - does that automatically means your life quality was only "poor" so far? Interesting.

Most members cannot hear. So without hearing, living in both worlds would be like being American, living in china, but only speaking english... Are you then really living in two worlds??

Excellent comparison, Cloggy. It's exactly like that.

You know those who can hear is like living life in a construction, Living the world of silence is much better than a noise pollution. Thank you very much.

yes, absolutely.....
not being able to hear your newborn first cry, not being able to hear the loving whispers of your loved one, not being able to hear music, not being able to participate in hearing conversation, not being able to hear your child first babbling, not being able to hear the birds sing, not being able to hear a warning bells, not being able to go to the doctor, lawyer, child's teacher, bank official, funeral director without an interpreter, having your child cry because it hurt itself and you didn't hear it calling you, feeling uncomfortably confused beacuse you can't understand when someone is talking to you, not to be able to watch any TV show because CC is not there, having everyone looking at you strangely, and many many more- it's juts terrific!!!! I love it!!!

It's how we manage our life to develop language communication to have connected to the world and we also have technological aids such as TTYs, captioning, fax machines, and vibrating or flashing alarms and interpreters.

yes, exactly - without all that we have NOTHING.

In the society, the fact they already have a population living among themselves black, Hispanic, Asiatic and native. Do they have to be white to live in the society?

You forgot something very important - people does not communicate thru skin color, people communciate verbally and thru writting. A gesturing porvide only very limited communication.
So even those Blacks, Hispanics, Asiatics and Natives in USA must speak English if they want to communicate well with each other.

I couldnt believe the comments that were made about how deaf people who are not implanted dont really have a choice of exploring both world. That was orginal!

Then explain to me how does swaying leaves SOUND, how does trickling water SOUND, how does batting an eye SOUND, how does a crow crows, how does a nightingale sings... the SOUND of cat purrs...

I'm glad you said that since your work involves deaf children who are implanted before AND after age 3 so you should know what you are talking about and I think your experience is worth a lot more then a lot of these pro CI studies.

Shel only knows her children "can or can not hear." She does not know WHY, she said that herself many times, and thus no, she she doesn't know FULLY what is she talking about.

Is that correct? I supposed my previous and presents jobs are based on one big lie huh?

Cloggy is talking abut an ability to HEAR, Cheri. Can you hear everything? can you in your job talk on the phone freely, talk to people from afar and without seeying their faces? You need no special accomodations?

U know it is funny..since I learned ASL and finally be around others like me, I dont face as much discrimination in the hearing world like before. Probably cuz of how I carry myself now...with confidence.

This is the only reason Shel - you gained confidence. If you were as confident before .you would felt differently too.

Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

U respect hearing people but what about respecting deaf people too?

U respect deaf people, but what about respecting hearing people too?

What if the deaf parents were unable to develop spoken language???

There is plenty of other people who can help - perhaps some hearing family members, and certainly friends, neighbours, professionals can help.
By the same token if the hearing parents have no gift for sign language , they still can provide deaf enviroment without learning to sign themselves.

The logic doesnt make sense so why should deaf parents follow the hearing way because hearing people say so? That's wrong on many levels.

The logic doesnt make sense so why should hearing parents follow the deaf way because deaf people say so? That's wrong on many levels.


Fuzzy

 

[Cheri]

How pathetic Fuzzy. You had to switched from "hearing" to "deaf" in every sentence I've posted?

Deaf people have sharp eyes and hearing people have sharp ears both groups can have a quality of life. If you think hearing is the only option to have a quality of life then you're an idiot.

There is nothing wrong with Deaf parents rejecting implant for their deaf children, hearing not only for communication, We have our hands we have our voice for communication. That gets us connect to the real world, that's all we need.

In China where hundreds of thousands of parents killed their newborn or infant daughters because they only want boys. Is that right for them to do that? You can't get what you want when it comes to having a child. This is what you get, live with it, deal with it. That's life, look around at all that you have and put a smile in your heart and on your face. The quality of life is not based on what we hear or see with our ears or eyes but what we are listening to with our heart.

If you have a positive attitude then you'll get far in life, If you have a negative attitude then you're looking for pity. It's not my problem that's your problem.

 

[shel90]

U respect deaf people, but what about respecting hearing people too?



There is plenty of other people who can help - perhaps some hearing family members, and certainly friends, neighbours, professionals can help.
By the same token if the hearing parents have no gift for sign language , they still can provide deaf enviroment without learning to sign themselves.


The logic doesnt make sense so why should hearing parents follow the deaf way because deaf people say so? That's wrong on many levels.


Fuzzy

Ok then my deaf brother should go back and spend hours in speech therapy again after he struggled with it for 5 years just to develop spoken language which may not happen anyway cuz he is too old as u implied that once a child is past a critical age, it is too late.


I see so many children who were deprived of a language because they werent able to pick up on spoken language cuz like you said , their parents wanted them to develop oral skills only but unfortunately, they werent able to do so and then introduce them to ASL at the age of 5 therefore delaying them even further in learning how to read and write. That is why I believe that all children should be exposed to ASL ALONG with spoken language. Nothing about following the deaf's way there..it is about ensuring that deaf children dont get deprived of a language and getting a CI doesnt guarantee that they will pick up on spoken language fully so that's where ASL comes in. Be a teacher of the deaf and try teaching children at age 9, 10, 11 who are so language delayed reading and writing..it is not a funny situation. U and your pals can laugh all u want but it really breaks my heart to see these children struggle cuz their parents want them to fit in their hearing world ONLY.

 

[shel90]

Shel, you admitted to NOT KNOWING why some children in your program don't seem to have benefits from the CI.
And judging by what you just wrote, I see clearly that you have no knowldge why some deaf people can speak while some not. You just see it, you don't know WHY it is.
You have no clue about their full, detailed medical history, developmental history, even psychological history. YET YOU pass these cases as "proof. What kind of proof is that? it doesn't prove anything, and it's as good as garbage, I am sorry to say because I am 100% convinced if we started to dig deeper we would find out the WHY, and that finally would make sense.

A deaf person born with severe to profound hearing loss WILL NOT learn to speak just like that!!! there must be extraordinairy circumstances for that to happen.





Really? But how WELL?
I don't believe for a minute she can speak as any normal hearing person. Heck, I don't believe she understand 2/3 of what she hears. Guesses, yes but not HEARS.
I can talk on the phone too, so what? It's not easy, I don't get everything what is said, and it is very exhausting. But for someone standing from a distance I seem to be able to "talk on the phone".

If you intend to prove a deaf person without CI is as able to communicate verbally as a deaf person without CI, first get your facts backed up by something with substance- like having your examples presented with complete detailed medical and life history of that person.

I have seen deaf people "talking on the phone". And for every ONE person who can, there is 20 that CAN'T.




If somebody says "if you start exercising your quality of life will improve" - does that automatically means your life quality was only "poor" so far? Interesting.





Excellent comparison, Cloggy. It's exactly like that.




yes, absolutely.....
not being able to hear your newborn first cry, not being able to hear the loving whispers of your loved one, not being able to hear music, not being able to participate in hearing conversation, not being able to hear your child first babbling, not being able to hear the birds sing, not being able to hear a warning bells, not being able to go to the doctor, lawyer, child's teacher, bank official, funeral director without an interpreter, having your child cry because it hurt itself and you didn't hear it calling you, feeling uncomfortably confused beacuse you can't understand when someone is talking to you, not to be able to watch any TV show because CC is not there, having everyone looking at you strangely, and many many more- it's juts terrific!!!! I love it!!!



yes, exactly - without all that we have NOTHING.




You forgot something very important - people does not communicate thru skin color, people communciate verbally and thru writting. A gesturing porvide only very limited communication.
So even those Blacks, Hispanics, Asiatics and Natives in USA must speak English if they want to communicate well with each other.






Then explain to me how does swaying leaves SOUND, how does trickling water SOUND, how does batting an eye SOUND, how does a crow crows, how does a nightingale sings... the SOUND of cat purrs...



Shel only knows her children "can or can not hear." She does not know WHY, she said that herself many times, and thus no, she she doesn't know FULLY what is she talking about.




Cloggy is talking abut an ability to HEAR, Cheri. Can you hear everything? can you in your job talk on the phone freely, talk to people from afar and without seeying their faces? You need no special accomodations?




This is the only reason Shel - you gained confidence. If you were as confident before .you would felt differently too.

Fuzzy

U keep saying that I dont know what I am talking about. Whatever..think whatever u want Fuzzy. The point is..those kids were deprived of language and if they had ASL in the first place, they wouldnt be several years delayed.

I have a Master's in Deaf Ed and minor in linguistics..I know a lot about language development and I was taught in my audiology classes that there might be some cases where for some reason some children do not benefit from their CIs. If I should know why, then why is one girl going back to the dr for a follow up surgery so he, THE DOCTOR, can find out why her CI is not working? U really do not have a clue what goes on in Deaf ed unless u are a teacher, audi, or school counselor yourself.

Besides many of these children's information prior to being referred to our school is confidential. I am only told what grade level they are performing at, what strengths and weaknesses are. If I was a licensed audiologist, I would have access to that info but I am just only a teacher so I dont have access to that info unless the parents share that with me. They always tell me that they dont know why soooo do I put a gun on their heads and force them to telll me?

Do not tell me that I dont know what I am talking about. I know more than what I show here. I would share more but with u and others putting me down, I dont feel it is worth it.

 

[Cheri]

Cloggy is talking abut an ability to HEAR, Cheri. Can you hear everything? can you in your job talk on the phone freely, talk to people from afar and without seeying their faces? You need no special accomodations?

I don't have to hear on my job and it's not even a requirement. There are some jobs that require hearing when working with telephones or customer service, but there are other jobs based on skills that you have and experiences.

I can communicate just fine with people at my job. Sure I can talk to people far away in distance with sign language.

I don't give a shit what Cloggy is talking about an ability to hear, The purpose of life is not all about hearing, Life is all about being happy, being healthy and being loved. Take it as a challenge.

 

[shel90]

I don't have to hear on my job and it's not even a requirement. There are some jobs that require hearing when working with telephones or customer service, but there are other jobs based on skills that you have and experiences.

I can communicate just fine with people at my job. Sure I can talk to people far away in distance with sign language.

I don't give a shit what Cloggy is talking about an ability to hear, The purpose of life is not all about hearing, Life is all about being happy, being healthy and being loved. Take it as a challenge.

I am with u on this one, Cheri! Some people value heairng and some dont. It is about respecting each other's preferences and I am not seeing that here in this thread.

 

[shel90]

U respect deaf people, but what about respecting hearing people too?



There is plenty of other people who can help - perhaps some hearing family members, and certainly friends, neighbours, professionals can help.
By the same token if the hearing parents have no gift for sign language , they still can provide deaf enviroment without learning to sign themselves.


The logic doesnt make sense so why should hearing parents follow the deaf way because deaf people say so? That's wrong on many levels.


Fuzzy

I respect the development of deaf children's language more than anything else. BTW...I am married to a hearing man so if I dont respect hearing people, I wouldnt be married to one. LOL!


How funny...u followed Cloggy's footsteps in by changing everyone's sentences. Dont have any orginal thoughts of your own?

 

[jillio]

Is was not the questions I found insulting but your comment that I "do not understand, as usual". Which in addition to being insulting was wrong on both counts.

So, do you want to argue or discuss--your choice.

Rick

Sorry, but you accused me of being insulting before I ever posted anything reaarding your lack of understanding. In fact, that is why I posted about your lack of understanding.

 

[jillio]

One of my students this year got implanted and she can easily use spoken language just as the same with my other student who was referred from the oral program who has no implant. He can speak well enough too.

My best friend is profoundly deaf since birth and she can talk on the phone. No implants. My other friend who was born deaf speaks fluent Spanish due to growing up in Puerto Rico..she has no implants. There are so many more..

Yes, it makes it easier but if one's life's quality is measured on how well they can hear then that means there is the assumption that all deaf people who dont have implants lead a poor quality life. Interesting.

Hey everyone, our quality of life depends on how well we can hear!!! Wow! I didnt know that!

That sums up the attitude being portrayed very nicely. Such superficial criteria to determine quality! A very shallow way of determining value.

 

[jillio]

Most members cannot hear. So without hearing, living in both worlds would be like being American, living in china, but only speaking english... Are you then really living in two worlds??

Children with CI really experience the hearing world. And if they choose, they can experience the deaf world as well. TO me that sounds like a REAL choice.

Fallicious argument. If you are going toattempt to support your position, please do so with valid comaprison.

 

[jillio]

These kinds of views like how CIs improve deaf people lives, deaf people without CIs dont really experience the hearing world or cant explore both worlds, and that deaf parents are selfish for not implanting their deaf children show utter lack of respect for those who dont have implants. I dont think u really have ever met successful and happy deaf people who dont have CIs. U all really dont have a clue about the Deaf community.

Again, it is the parents' or families' personal decision whether to implant the child or not and none of us should bash them which includes the ones who decide to implant AND the ones who decide not to implant.


All children whether implanted or not should be given the opportunity to experience both worlds and use both languages. That is MY belief. I do believe that will bring people together and the CI shouldnt be the deciding factor but with that view, it will be. :roll:

I see that it has now been decided that deaf parents who choose not to implant are being selfish. Wonder what the judgement is on hearing parents who decide not to implant?

 

[shel90]

I see that it has now been decided that deaf parents who choose not to implant are being selfish. Wonder what the judgement is on hearing parents who decide not to implant?

I know! I just love that one. That is like telling hearing parents to implant their own hearing kids to make them deaf. I cant wait to tell my deaf friends who have deaf kids that.

 

[jillio]

I'm glad you said that since your work involves deaf children who are implanted before AND after age 3 so you should know what you are talking about and I think your experience is worth a lot more then a lot of these pro CI studies. Many of which were conducted using animal models. Since humans and other animals react differantly a lot of what they come up with is not true anyway. For one thing in the case of most other animals they develop at a far greater rate, even taking into consideration their shortened lifespan.

I would be very curious to know from your own personal experience with your pupils have you noticed any cut off point after which a child fails to benifit from CI's?

Excellent point, dreama. The results obtained in laboratory settings are rarely the same results seen in real world situations.

 

[jillio]

So... you cannot answer the question I guess...
Can we fully experience deafness when we can hear. Can you really experience hearing when you are deaf??

No you can't. Not even with a CI.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

So... you cannot answer the question I guess...
Can we fully experience deafness when we can hear. Can you really experience hearing when you are deaf??

No you can't. Not even with a CI.

I would say - if you want to experience what's like to be deaf, put something in your ears for at least a week, make sure you truly can not hear anything. that will give you an inkling what it is like,
because to truly experience to be deaf one should have other senses heightened.

Likewise, if you are implanted with CI, you do hear sounds. You do hear.
If you can not hear any sound for any reason, then the true experience of the hearing world is simply not possible.


Fuzzy

 

[jillio]

I would say - if you want to experience what's like to be deaf, put something in your ears for at least a week, make sure you truly can not hear anything. that will give you an inkling what it is like,
because to truly experience to be deaf one should have other senses heightened.

Likewise, if you are implanted with CI, you do hear sounds. You do hear.
If you can not hear any sound for any reason, then the true experience of the hearing world is simply not possible.


Fuzzy

Ah, but "to hear" and to "be hearing" are two different experiences. Just ask the HOH indiviudal that "hears", but is constantly excluded from the experience of "being hearing".

 

[Audiofuzzy]

How pathetic Fuzzy. You had to switched from "hearing" to "deaf" in every sentence I've posted?

Oh, now I a pathetic, am I? And what that makes YOU, hmmm??
Didn't like the tables being turned, huh? don't like seeying yourself in a mirror, huh?
How come it's okay to insult and bash hearing parents only who just chose what they think it BEST for their children, yet NOT okay to bash deaf parents, who, if you think about it, are even more closed minded than the hearing?
more over, this fallacy "let the child decide" is also a sad, profound example of insufficient education on the part of deaf parents.
at least the hearing parents understand the neccessity of early implanting.

Deaf people have sharp eyes and hearing people have sharp ears both groups can have a quality of life. If you think hearing is the only option to have a quality of life then you're an idiot.

I would kindly ask you to refrain from insulting remarks.

And since I NEVER said that hearing is the only option to have quality life,
I could but won't tell what does that makes you.
I stated my position on the deaf children many times over on this forum. But obviously one needs to pay attention to know what it is. and understand written English.

There is nothing wrong with Deaf parents rejecting implant for their deaf children, hearing not only for communication, We have our hands we have our voice for communication. That gets us connect to the real world, that's all we need.

There is nothing wrong with hearing parents choosing na implant for their deaf children either. Deaf hands and voice is fully sufficient only in the deaf world. It connects with the real world but not fully.


I

n China where hundreds of thousands of parents killed their newborn or infant daughters because they only want boys. Is that right for them to do that?

That is completely different - what it is, is a murder, which is a CRIME and such example is a desperate, gross exaggeration, irrelevant to deafness and CI.

You can't get what you want when it comes to having a child. This is what you get, live with it, deal with it. That's life, look around at all that you have and put a smile in your heart and on your face. The quality of life is not based on what we hear or see with our ears or eyes but what we are listening to with our heart.

And how is CI preventing all the smiles, dealing with deafness, quality of life etc????

If you have a positive attitude then you'll get far in life, If you have a negative attitude then you're looking for pity. It's not my problem that's your problem.

true, but what does that has anything to do with the subject we are discussing? looks like you are grasping at straws.

I don't have to hear on my job and it's not even a requirement. There are some jobs that require hearing when working with telephones or customer service, but there are other jobs based on skills that you have and experiences.

I can communicate just fine with people at my job. Sure I can talk to people far away in distance with sign language.

I don't give a shit what Cloggy is talking about an ability to hear, The purpose of life is not all about hearing, Life is all about being happy, being healthy and being loved. Take it as a challenge.

Just as I suspected, you don't communicate by hearing at work, you don't understand what it is that Cloggy and I are trying to convey, and yet you think you know it all.
But we are the ones stupid. hmmm.

Ok then my deaf brother should go back and spend hours in speech therapy again after he struggled with it for 5 years just to develop spoken language which may not happen anyway cuz he is too old as u implied that once a child is past a critical age, it is too late.

I don't understand Shel why are you writing this. how about what I wrote here:

There is plenty of other people who can help - perhaps some hearing family members, and certainly friends, neighbours, professionals can help.

Didn't you read that? or you conveniently disregarded this, as many people here seem to do - disregard clearly stated sentences that are inconvenient to their anti-CI POV.

That is why I believe that all children should be exposed to ASL ALONG with spoken language.

And where I ever said any different?
this is perfect example of selective reading on the part of those who are opposed to CI.
Do you realize that you are arguing with people who are NOT opposed to CI and ASL together?

. U and your pals can laugh

Oh, so now I am laughing with my "pals" ... thanks for telling me, or I wouldn't be aware of that.

I have a Master's in Deaf Ed and minor in linguistics..I know a lot about language development and I was taught in my audiology classes that there might be some cases where for some reason some children do not benefit from their CIs. If I should know why, then why is one girl going back to the dr for a follow up surgery so he, THE DOCTOR, can find out why her CI is not working? U really do not have a clue what goes on in Deaf ed unless u are a teacher, audi, or school counselor yourself.

I am saying Shel you give plenty of examples against CI without ever explaing why this or that particular CI doesn't or didn't work,
you ASK "why is this child with HA being able to speak while this one with CI doesn't" - if you knew why, then you wouldn't ask, right? and I wouldn't assume you don't know.

Besides many of these children's information prior to being referred to our school is confidential.

That is exactly my point - you admit yourself you don't know the whys- that's all the more reason NOT to give it as proof that "some kids can and some can't".

If I was a licensed audiologist, I would have access to that info but I am just only a teacher so I dont have access to that info unless the parents share that with me.

That never was, is, or ever will be an issue. I do not expect you to do that - I just object to you making definite statements in certain situations without knowing all the facts behind your examples, but which are intended to prove that "it doesn't matter, Ci or HA, look here this child can talk on the phone with HA and this one with CI can't, so CI doesn't matter".

You don't WHY in the first place. Like I've said before, sometime JUST stating a bare fact is not enough.

Suppose I said "one does not have to have money to drive a Porsche. I know somebody who is poor and drives one".
Well, maybe that person owns a Porsche, or maybe is only taking it to the mechanic. Maybe the Porsche is stolen. Maybe the Porshe was won in a lottery. Maybe the Porsche was rebuild from scrap and costed peanuts. Hope you got my point?
Just seeying someone driving Porsche is not enough to know the full story.

I would share more but with u and others putting me down, I dont feel it is worth it.

Excuse me Shel but how do you think I feel when you are telling me for example:

Hey everyone, our quality of life depends on how well we can hear!!! Wow! I didnt know that!

and that is a very mild example.
you don't even bother to learn my gender, you seem to skip over my posts so you don't even really know my stance on CI, deafness, deaf children etc, you misconstrue many of my sentences,
and yet you have the audacity to tell me I am "putting you down". I am not putting you down - I defend myself.

How funny...u followed Cloggy's footsteps in by changing everyone's sentences. Dont have any orginal thoughts of your own?

I do and did just that, but since nobody seems to be paying attention to or understand what I write, I thought maybe they finally will if they see themselves in a mirror.
how do you like seeying yourself being portrayed the way you portray us?

Ah, but "to hear" and to "be hearing" are two different experiences. Just ask the HOH indiviudal that "hears", but is constantly excluded from the experience of "being hearing".

I am sorry, I must be getting tired, because I don't follow?? care to elaborate, please?

Fuzzy