cochlear implants

Grummer said:
Hi All,

This is fascinating, I will admit one thing before I go on, some of you will find my post rather choppy, so apologise for that, it is just intend to note a couple of things



just fascinating, like this reflects the faith in science, which is akin to normative ideology, in other words it is still the medicalisation of deafness. Observing that is when you say 'Options available" in this respect, it is to refer to the hearing way to deal with deafness. What I am trying to say is parents tend to quickly to jump to the hearist 'solutions' available. Ok I am aware you even let your girl learn signs and spend 3 days a week in deaf kindy, so from that I wish not to *lash* at you because I do recognise you Do care for her you want the *best* for her, and Are being open minded, it's good :) just wish to point out, that you sometimes need to avoid being careless to omit the available 'deaf' options... its mainly an unconscious way to say what *we know* or regarded in what we are exposed to understand.....



I find highland's vision even more interesting...

I can see how and why parents/doctors tend to rush their babies and children to receive implants, it is alot to do with language development ( and I dont mean just speech, signs too) there is what they call 'critical language acquisition period'.

as for that with more and more CI surgery is being carried out to little deaf children, its quite possible......that a societal mutation of the cultural kind within the deaf community could eventuate

cheers for now
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:gpost::gpost::gpost:
 
neecy said:
But the whole point for implanting a CI (and the medical criteria for it) is that there is not enough residual hearing to begin with to be of any benefit! If they remove a CI after implantation - nothing's been changed in terms of residual hearing because there was none to work with before the implant even occured. You can't damage what wasn't there.
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Since I have been on the board, I have read several posts about residual hearing and how much is enough and all that. How much do u consider not to be enough?

I have a 120 dB loss in both ears so my residual hearing is very very small but I depend greatly on them. Without my HAs, it is near impossible for me to communicate with hearing people but with my HAs, the difference is there so some people do make good use of very little residual hearing. My point of asking that is hwo much do we know if babies/children will use their residual hearing no matter how little it is. I understand that the earlier the child gets implanted the better but who are we to judge for that child on how much they will be able to use whatever residual hearing they have? That's why it is sticky for me due to my experience of working with children who couldnt benefit from their CIs to the degree they are supposed to work.
Maybe that is why my view is different from many of u cuz I was able to put my little residual hearing in good use. suppose I got a CI and it didnt work for me and my residual hearing is gone forever? That's another reason why I wont get it. For some, it doesnt matter but this could be why I view it differently. :dunno:
 
shel90 said:
Since I have been on the board, I have read several posts about residual hearing and how much is enough and all that. How much do u consider not to be enough?

I have a 120 dB loss in both ears so my residual hearing is very very small but I depend greatly on them. Without my HAs, it is near impossible for me to communicate with hearing people but with my HAs, the difference is there so some people do make good use of very little residual hearing. My point of asking that is hwo much do we know if babies/children will use their residual hearing no matter how little it is. I understand that the earlier the child gets implanted the better but who are we to judge for that child on how much they will be able to use whatever residual hearing they have? That's why it is sticky for me due to my experience of working with children who couldnt benefit from their CIs to the degree they are supposed to work.
Maybe that is why my view is different from many of u cuz I was able to put my little residual hearing in good use. suppose I got a CI and it didnt work for me and my residual hearing is gone forever? That's another reason why I wont get it. For some, it doesnt matter but this could be why I view it differently. :dunno:
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Although I do not have your degree of hearing loss (my loss was 115 dbs across most fequencies before the operation); I was able to make good use of my residential hearing but then I began to have problems with recruitment in my late teens and early twenties which made it very hard to wear my hearing aid. I had to force myself to wear it in the months before my operation as I had not worn it in a year and half. The only time I wore that hearing aid was when I had to see family.

If you got a CI and it didn't work? That's a risk you'd have to take. What are the odds of a cochlear implantation failure? Various sources say 3 to 5 percent. I was at a high risk for failure due to diabetes because if my cochlear or my cuts were infected and my diabetes were out of control, I'd be risking rejection and the healing would have taken much longer than it normally does.

However the benefits of my CI were greater than the risk of failure. At the very least, it would make it a lot easier to hear things and I wouldn't have to strain so hard to understand people.

Today I had to get my car towed to the Ford center; I have not seen the Ford people since my CI operation. I find that as long as I am not in the section where they drive in cars, it is easy to understand the Ford people and I didn't have to ask twice for the most part. In the past it was a struggle to understand them. It's really amazing the difference the implant makes.

Now what if my implant had failed? Well, I'd be back to square 1. I would have to remember my classmates who could not speak or lipread and follow their examples to get by. I would have missed being able to hear music but I'd have pointed out to myself that I couldn't listen to music for very long due to recruiment. I wouldn't have been happy about the failure but then I knew the risk when I got implanted.
 
deafskeptic said:
Although I do not have your degree of hearing loss (my loss was 115 dbs across most fequencies before the operation); I was able to make good use of my residential hearing but then I began to have problems with recruitment in my late teens and early twenties which made it very hard to wear my hearing aid. I had to force myself to wear it in the months before my operation as I had not worn it in a year and half. The only time I wore that hearing aid was when I had to see family.

If you got a CI and it didn't work? That's a risk you'd have to take. What are the odds of a cochlear implantation failure? Various sources say 3 to 5 percent. I was at a high risk for failure due to diabetes because if my cochlear or my cuts were infected and my diabetes were out of control, I'd be risking rejection and the healing would have taken much longer than it normally does.

However the benefits of my CI were greater than the risk of failure. At the very least, it would make it a lot easier to hear things and I wouldn't have to strain so hard to understand people.

Today I had to get my car towed to the Ford center; I have not seen the Ford people since my CI operation. I find that as long as I am not in the section where they drive in cars, it is easy to understand the Ford people and I didn't have to ask twice for the most part. In the past it was a struggle to understand them. It's really amazing the difference the implant makes.

Now what if my implant had failed? Well, I'd be back to square 1. I would have to remember my classmates who could not speak or lipread and follow their examples to get by. I would have missed being able to hear music but I'd have pointed out to myself that I couldn't listen to music for very long due to recruiment. I wouldn't have been happy about the failure but then I knew the risk when I got implanted.
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Thanks for sharing. :)
I guess the need to hear better is not that great enough for me to want CIs.
 
shel90 said:
...
I guess the need to hear better is not that great enough for me to want CIs.
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Exactly! This is really what it all comes down to in a nutshell. Nothing more...nothing less. Knowing one's need or desire goes a long way to achieving one's dreams. Unfortunately, many people never really figure this out...they are too busy fighting the alligators of life.
 
I have a 120 dB loss in both ears so my residual hearing is very very small but I depend greatly on them. Without my HAs, it is near impossible for me to communicate with hearing people but with my HAs, the difference is there so some people do make good use of very little residual hearing.
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How well do you understand with your HAs? can you hear without seeying face, can you hear with background noise? from afar?
And anyway how did you become deaf - you were born deaf, or you lost it over the years. hope you don't mind me asking.

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
How well do you understand with your HAs? can you hear without seeying face, can you hear with background noise? from afar?
And anyway how did you become deaf - you were born deaf, or you lost it over the years. hope you don't mind me asking.

Fuzzy
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Yes, I can hear with background noise, yes I can hear voices without seeing faces and if there is no background noise I can tell if it is a man or a woman talking. Sometimes, If I concentrate I can catch some words here and there. I can identify when airplanes are flying as opposed when a car is driving by. I was in hours and hours and hours of intensive speech therapy. I am not sure if I am grateful for it cuz growing up oral and mainstreamed, I was more isolated than I am now being in an ASL environment. I just use my HAs when I am in a non signing environment.

I was born deaf due to unknown reasons same as my brother.
 
shel90 said:
Yes, I can hear with background noise, yes I can hear voices without seeing faces and if there is no background noise I can tell if it is a man or a woman talking. Sometimes, If I concentrate I can catch some words here and there. I can identify when airplanes are flying as opposed when a car is driving by. I was in hours and hours and hours of intensive speech therapy. I am not sure if I am grateful for it cuz growing up oral and mainstreamed, I was more isolated than I am now being in an ASL environment. I just use my HAs when I am in a non signing environment.

I was born deaf due to unknown reasons same as my brother.
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I'd say that in your case, the chances of a CI not working would be low because you've already learned speech and that skill is transferable. But as you say, the need and motivation is not there since you operate mainly in a signing work/social environment and only use your HAs when not in it.
 
Yes, I can hear with background noise, yes I can hear voices without seeing faces and if there is no background noise I can tell if it is a man or a woman talking. Sometimes, If I concentrate I can catch some words here and there. I can identify when airplanes are flying as opposed when a car is driving by. I was in hours and hours and hours of intensive speech therapy. I am not sure if I am grateful for it cuz growing up oral and mainstreamed, I was more isolated than I am now being in an ASL environment. I just use my HAs when I am in a non signing environment.

I was born deaf due to unknown reasons same as my brother.
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Wow we have much in common. Altough I am probably not as skilled as you at hearing with face not visible, and background noise makes it very hard for me to understand.
If the car radio is on loud enough I can make out single words, too.
I wasn't in any speech therapy ever but I was losing my hearing slowly and grew up in hearing enviroment, it's a training in itself.

Like you I felt isolated even if I never was in any deaf culture. But I got used to it. I am grateful for being in hearing enviroment altough I wish I was also given an opportunity to be in deaf culture and learn sign language.

I use my HA all the time except when I go to bed, or when I am alone and don't feel like wearing them.
My brother and I probably were born with hearing impairment but it showed only years later - I started showing when I was 5, and it went down slowly whereas my brother lose all of his hearing in a matter of a year, at about same age.

I too think you would hear well with CI but of course if you feel no need then there is no need. I probably will want to have CI at some point because, as I've said, I am in hearing enviorment only.


Fuzzy
 
radiohead said:
Your completely right. That isn't a matter of opinion, that's a fact that's been documented and studied and published on, and seems to be a fact most Deaf people ignore. The brain develops neural pathways in response to sound at a very early age. After the age of 2 these pathways stop being formed. Therefore, waiting till they are older to implant them means they may not recieve as much benifit as they would if they were younger.

So why not implant them young and let them decide if they want to be Deaf or not as they get older? You can take it off and not have to wear it and be completely deaf. When I take mine off, I can't hear a thing. Why not give them full benifit of a CI and if they decide at an older age to be Deaf they can take it off, rather than forcing them to be Deaf and not be able to recieve much benifit from the CI.

If you think forcing them to be implanted is child abuse, then forcing them to be Deaf can be construed the same way. If you're all about choices, then implanting at an early age really DOES give them the full range of choices. Not vice versa- it's just a matter of logic.
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YES! EXACTLY! its SO simple you anti-ci people need to get to be more open-minded about it
 
I have something to say. I am the parent of 2 oral deaf teenagers both with cochlear implants. My son was implanted at the age of three years old. I know that there some people in the Deaf culture that say it was not my decision to make to implant my child at the age of three. It is my decision to make because they are my children. If my son would have wanted to get an implant when he was adult he would not have been able to developed the oral language he has. There is no way a person born deaf like my son was and later on as an adult decided to get implant would that person be where my son is. My son is fully included at our local high school in honors classes. I am not anti-signing but I know that if my son later on want to go just with signing he could just take off his implant and immerse himself in the Deaf culture and that would have be fine with me. I wanted my children to have the option. The best decision I have made as a parent to 2 deaf children has been to get them implanted.
 
My point of asking that is hwo much do we know if babies/children will use their residual hearing no matter how little it is. I understand that the earlier the child gets implanted the better but who are we to judge for that child on how much they will be able to use whatever residual hearing they have?
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Excellent point. That's the reason why I'm not exactly all "gung ho" for WICKED early implantion. Even with ABR, its very hard to tell exactly how well a dhh kid hears with hearing aids.
Yes, there are some kids who are totally off the bat canidates. Like with auditory nereopathy....but some others. I mean I've heard of kids who scored as "profoundly deaf" on ABR and on more traditional audi exams, they were more hoh, with a lot of residual hearing.
Besides just b/c a kid's profoundly or severe deaf, it doesn't mean that they can't use the residual hearing given to them by hearing aids.
 
Excellent point. That's the reason why I'm not exactly all "gung ho" for WICKED early implantion. Even with ABR, its very hard to tell exactly how well a dhh kid hears with hearing aids.
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You know what - I came to the conclusion that even if the child would hear relatively well with HA - a child with moderate sensori neural loss - it will still receive even more benefits with CI.

I use HA all my life and decided I wouldn't mind to have been implanted right away back then instead of all those unsatisfactory years with HA.

HAs - whatever way you look at it- it's just a sound amplifier. It does not enable to hear sounds that can not be hear. It only amplifies what can be hear.

Even if the child seem to be hearing with sich HA -from my own memory I know it's still struggling to hear. So what if I could put together the whole sentence because I understood 3 words out of 5? it was torture.
it always was, is, and always will be. I would much rather understand everything or at least 90%.

And since we are talking about "how well the kids hear with HA" - it's obvious not well enough. Bad enough to consider CI, anyway.

Fuzzy
 
If my son would have wanted to get an implant when he was adult he would not have been able to developed the oral language he has. There is no way a person born deaf like my son was and later on as an adult decided to get implant would that person be where my son is
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I agree and I think you did smart.

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
You know what - I came to the conclusion that even if the child would hear relatively well with HA - a child with moderate sensori neural loss - it will still receive even more benefits with CI.

I use HA all my life and decided I wouldn't mind to have been implanted right away back then instead of all those unsatisfactory years with HA.

HAs - whatever way you look at it- it's just a sound amplifier. It does not enable to hear sounds that can not be hear. It only amplifies what can be hear.

Even if the child seem to be hearing with sich HA -from my own memory I know it's still struggling to hear. So what if I could put together the whole sentence because I understood 3 words out of 5? it was torture.
it always was, is, and always will be. I would much rather understand everything or at least 90%.

And since we are talking about "how well the kids hear with HA" - it's obvious not well enough. Bad enough to consider CI, anyway.

Fuzzy
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Yes someone who thinks like I do. :h5: HA's are definatly not all they're cracked up to be. filling in the blanks is very stressful. I hated it. CI no longer leaves me filling in the blanks in every conversation. :)
 
jag said:
Yes someone who thinks like I do. :h5: HA's are definatly not all they're cracked up to be. filling in the blanks is very stressful. I hated it. CI no longer leaves me filling in the blanks in every conversation. :)
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Agree with you both.
It's all about giving a child the best possibilities there are...
 
jillio said:
Is a CI the only way to do that? And if so, from whose perspective?
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A CI is not the only way but it is one of the better ways of doing things if the goal is for the child to be able to develop oral language. I am not saying that all deaf children should develop oral language but I am saying if that is the decision to help the child develop oral language then a CI can help so much.
 
jackiesolorzano said:
A CI is not the only way but it is one of the better ways of doing things if the goal is for the child to be able to develop oral language. I am not saying that all deaf children should develop oral language but I am saying if that is the decision to help the child develop oral language then a CI can help so much.
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Agreed, still waiting for someone to say in the case of a profoundly deaf child who does not benefit from HAs what is better to help that child access sounds then a cochlear implant.
 
jackiesolorzano said:
A CI is not the only way but it is one of the better ways of doing things if the goal is for the child to be able to develop oral language. I am not saying that all deaf children should develop oral language but I am saying if that is the decision to help the child develop oral language then a CI can help so much.
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I agree with you that it does help the child access sound, and for some, it does help them to develop oral skills, both receptive and expressive. However, I still beleive that hearing is not necessary to access all of life's possibilities. And that was really the point of my question.
 
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