Are Drug Users Persecuted?

jillio said:
Taking excessive amounts isn't a crime. Doctor shopping and purchasing on the street is the crime. You don't seem to be able to grasp that.
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If opiates were legal, he wouldnt have to doctor shop or by them off the street. Buying injesting opiates is no more of a crime than buying alcohol and drinking it
 
Babyblue said:
Bold print.. Reminds me of an over confident drunk getting ready to drive a vehicle. You think your head is not muddled, which indeed your judgement clearly is!
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no one could ever tell I was taking them. I took testing for job interests. Interviewer said I was friendly and pleasant. The results were similar identical to test I took years ago.

Again, youre comparing alcohol to opiates. They are 2 very different things. If you want to compare alcohol to a prescription drug, xanax, valium, or ativan would be a better match
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Oh, boy- you've missed my whole point....
the comparison I've made was not about this but about how one day science says one thing and tomorrow the other.

That's why I am convinced I saw a physical withdrawal from marijuana use.
I know what I saw.

Just because science says otherwise today, doesn't mean years from now
my opinion can not actually be supported.
You understand now?

(SNIP)

Fuzzy
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I specifically said I understand science progresses... (said so in the post you snipped) what isn't clear is why you choose those 'examples' it would have been far easier to take a drug that is now pulled off the market for side-effects or causing dependency... or harming fetus... or -whatever-.

The topic would have still been 'drugs' and we could talk about the FDA's 'fast track' program that kills people...

I have seen (experienced) caffeine withdraw, I used -that- as an example as it is a legal substance... for all ages and in almost any dose...

I have seen (experienced) caffeine OD, it's not fun either.

In case it matters I have what are called "Migraines" also, but along with my "Asthma" mine have specific triggers that I avoid like the plague.

(the 'asthma' is any solid particle inhalant, specific visual stimulus for the 'migraines' also some foods)

[in quotes as the doctors say its not really 'X' unless 'Y' is true, so I have no treatment beside OTC for this...not even the rescue inhaler- it's a lot of fun :roll:]

Again, they recently thought all morbidly obese people overeat... this isn't true either...

But the examples seemed poorly chosen, a stretch if you will as you could have used Copernicus and his study of the planets and their motion, or Newton, or any broad and understood topic that 'science changes'.

You chose to use examples that are personal to you and that's why the defensiveness now- (IMHO)
 
Doug5 said:
If opiates were legal, he wouldnt have to doctor shop or by them off the street. Buying injesting opiates is no more of a crime than buying alcohol and drinking it
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Doug5 said:
no one could ever tell I was taking them. I took testing for job interests. Interviewer said I was friendly and pleasant. The results were similar identical to test I took years ago.

Again, you're comparing alcohol to opiates. They are 2 very different things. If you want to compare alcohol to a prescription drug, xanax, valium, or ativan would be a better match
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I might be a great thief, and nobody can tell- it's still illegal...

I might be great at (any illegal activity that does not cause direct harm to another person) and it's STILL illegal.

I might choose to drive at 5 MPH over the speed limit, and otherwise follow all traffic laws... it's still breaking the law...

People that disagree with laws should get organized and change the laws, not just break them willy-nilly.
 
you could have used Copernicus and his study of the planets and their motion, or Newton, or any broad and understood topic that 'science changes'.
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Exactly! and I just chose a different example, so what's the problem?
Because my point was not about drugs - my point was about science and how any thesis that seem to be presently very solid "oh, but cocaine and other narcotics addiction was studied for years!" - might be easily turned on it's head after more research
- tomorrow.

My point was there is no such thing as "sure thing" in science,

and just because general opinion TODAY says there is no physical withdrawal from drugs such as meth, marijuana, cocaine, does not necessarily mean it is 100% true.

Further discoveries into human brain and drug addictions may say something exactly opposite down the road years from now.

And how the science is so sure on one thing only to discover
it wasn't so -was my point,
not the drugs itself, and thus above examples are perfect for comparison - sorry you guys missed such a simple thing.

when you say:
But the examples seemed poorly chosen, a stretch if you will as you could have used .. .......
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You are attacking me, not my arguments :roll:
Exactly why YOUR Copernicus comparison happens to be better that my comparison of ulcers and H.Pylori?

My point was about how science says one thing for years, then turns about and says completely the other - here and here exactly the same thing transpired.

Again, they recently thought all morbidly obese people overeat... this isn't true either...
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No, there is a number of factors where morbid obesity is caused by medical conditions, genetic for example, this is true.
Keep in mind, thought, the percentage of those are very, very low comparing to those who are obese due to bad diet and general lifestyle - I've seen numbers as low as 3% obese due to medical reasons vs 97% due to overeating in various article stated.

So yes, mainly eating too much, eating wrong kinds of food and not moving enough is still the main reason for morbid obesity.

Have you ever seen any episodes of Brookhaven Obesity Clinic?
Ruby Gettinger at Brookhaven Obesity Clinic - Video - Oprah.com


Now, before I say anything, I want to say I feel for these people.
After watching a few episode, I understand eating is an addiction, too.
Very serious.

So, my point here is not about criticizing these people, no.
My point is about precisely why these people are obese- because they eat too much.

They are in the clinic fighting for their life,
thousands and thousand of money are being spent on professionals working
on their diets, physical therapy, psychotherapy on a daily basis
to help them lose weight.
yest some of them demand from their families to sneak up chocolate bars, fried greasy foods, humongous containers of sugary soft drinks.

Medical reasons?? no, EXCESSIVE CALORIES.


Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Oh, boy- you've missed my whole point....
the comparison I've made was not about this but about how one day science says one thing and tomorrow the other.

That's why I am convinced I saw a physical withdrawal from marijuana use.
I know what I saw.

Just because science says otherwise today, doesn't mean years from now
my opinion can not actually be supported.
You understand now?





You are forgetting I have migraine, and I researched the subject extensively for years, starting 30 years ago.

Some doctors believed migraine was neurological and only neurological in origin,
but before the invention of MRI the majority insisted it is psychosomatic.

I was told by many doctors to my face it's psychosomatic, sweetie.

The famous "it's all in your head" was patronizingly delivered to many patients like me, and many were blamed for the disease they suffered from.

Even today you can find an occasional quack who will say "you stress too much".
Yeah, sure. I stay home doing nothing and I have almost daily migraines,
while my friend's a VIP with tons of daily pressure and no single headache
ever, but it's me who "stresses too much". :roll:

Something to educate yourself better with, Jillio:



Migraines: Myth Vs. Reality

Fuzzy
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No one missed your point. We are simply telling you it is not applicable.
 
Doug5 said:
If opiates were legal, he wouldnt have to doctor shop or by them off the street. Buying injesting opiates is no more of a crime than buying alcohol and drinking it
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The opiates prescribed to him are legal. He wasn't satisfied with a medically therapeutic dose. He wanted more. He obtained them illegally. He stepped outside the bounds of the law. Oh, well.
 
@ Fuzzy

I do not want anyone to feel personally attacked so sorry- that that did sound like a personal attack, I should reread with 'fresh' eyes sometimes-

I have watched people, eating 1/3 the calories I consume still be unable to lose weight, still exercising as much as possible like water exercises 1hr a day alternating cardio and strength -(limited due to being crippled by genetic flaw of the hip structure).

I'm of the opinion (see any homosexual topic) that is ONE is innocent then the rest cannot be condemned with clean hands- so if .001% were due to medical reasons instead of caloric intake that would be enough for me to say, "not all morbidly obese people overeat,"

I -still- get science might change its mind tomorrow regarding what is and isn't physically or psychologically addicting.

Not sure how that changes the fact that some teen or adult (usually) willingly (usually) proceeded to take one or more doses (often) of an illegal substance -before they were hooked.

They were being criminals before they were hooked, now they are hooked criminals... too bad I guess.
 
I hope that genetic research leads to a medication that can help addicts. Determining the molecular pathway involved in a disorder has already led to new drugs.
 
sallylou said:
I hope that genetic research leads to a medication that can help addicts. Determining the molecular pathway involved in a disorder has already led to new drugs.
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That would be awesome...

"You have been convicted of possession and using (drug)... take this pill and go home"
 
People experiment with things. The difference between a person who tried it and an addict may be brain chemistry. Generally, I believe that shrinks should balance a person's brain chemistry when it's out of wack.
 
sallylou said:
People experiment with things. The difference between a person who tried it and an addict may be brain chemistry. Generally, I believe that shrinks should balance a person's brain chemistry when it's out of whack.
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True I guess, but are people addicted from only once?

Maybe, maybe not-

Not sure on that-

Besides it was illegal before they experimented... why not experiment on legal things?
 
sallylou said:
I hope that genetic research leads to a medication that can help addicts. Determining the molecular pathway involved in a disorder has already led to new drugs.
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I think it may be around the corner. BTW, so many drug users are self medicating because traditional medicine has not addressed their problems appropriately.
 
sallylou said:
People experiment with things. The difference between a person who tried it and an addict may be brain chemistry. Generally, I believe that shrinks should balance a person's brain chemistry when it's out of wack.
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See it all the time. Physician says, there is nothing wrong with you. You just need to stop using drugs, and I am not giving you anything mood altering.

Psychologist does a complete history. Psychologist says: "It appears that you have had an underlying depression since childhood. Have you ever been treated for that?"

Patient says: "No. The doc said there wasn't anything wrong with me except that I used drugs."
 
I'm so frustrated with doctors that I consider them useless at the moment. :roll:

I don't know if a person gets addicted to something after one use. Some people are more likely to get a certain result from a drug. Something to do with how a substance affects their brain chemistry. For example, some people are more likely to get addicted to nicotine. Smoking is common among the mentally ill. Something about a particular receptor. :hmm:
 
sallylou said:
I'm so frustrated with doctors that I consider them useless at the moment. :roll:

I don't know if a person gets addicted to something after one use. Some people are more likely to get a certain result from a drug. Something to do with how a substance affects their brain chemistry. For example, some people are more likely to get addicted to nicotine. Smoking is common among the mentally ill. Something about a particular receptor. :hmm:
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Yes, the nicotine receptors in the brain are affected by many psychotropics.

No, no one gets addicted after one use. A feature of addiction is the development of tolerance. You cannot develop tolerance after one use.

What generally happens with addiction is the person who is undiagnosed and untreated gets ahold of a substance, uses it, and thinks, "Damn! This is what everyone but me feels like all the time. This makes me normal. Let me try another dose!" Self medication.
 
Oh, yea, tolerance. The reason that I always want just one more cup of coffee. :lol:
 
Doug5 said:
no one could ever tell I was taking them. I took testing for job interests. Interviewer said I was friendly and pleasant. The results were similar identical to test I took years ago.

Again, youre comparing alcohol to opiates. They are 2 very different things. If you want to compare alcohol to a prescription drug, xanax, valium, or ativan would be a better match
Click to expand...

Yes, I am comparing alcohol to opiates. since they both act on the CNS. they both impare your judgement. Just like the Benzos do.
 
Babyblue said:
Yes, I am comparing alcohol to opiates. since they both act on the CNS. they both impare your judgement. Just like the Benzos do.
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And both impair many other things besides judgement. Like, reaction times, processing times, etc.
 
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