Observation

Hohtopics said:
My parents accommodated me even though they didn't know signs. They are more than one way to accommodate the deaf child and it doesn't only have to revolve around signing or the Deaf way.
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Sure they did.
 
Hohtopics said:
Exactly. That also applies to FJ's child as well. That's what some of us have been saying all along. Yet some of the AD'ers are insisting to see it only as an one way street.
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Misunderstood Banjo's post completely.
 
Hohtopics said:
Now, why is it okay for her to make that comment? Why that continued double standard in the forum? Why does it only have to be an one way street? That if some AD'ers or members read carefully rather than just letting the emotions get the best of them they'll actually see that most of the, as constructively put, "heated discussions" stems from the following:

"THERE'S ONLY ONE RIGHT WAY" vs "There isn't..."
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Again with your dichotomous thinking. It would appear that you don't grasp the meaning of "oralism" nor of "help" in the broader sense.
 
Hohtopics said:
Well, some of the deaf children did succeed taking the non-Deaf route, then what...
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There are always the outliers. We are talking about the accepted consequences for the majority. One or two exceptions do not discount what has been found in the majority. So...you may be different from the findings. So what? Still doesn't change the findings.
 
Looking back at the original post that created this thread and reviewing the hotly debate posts slowly derailing...

Majority is still that, majority of deaf population regardless of "My child doesn't do this..." psychology.

Things that we can't change are:

Parent's negligence to DO something with their deaf child, not willing to establish EFFECTIVE communication between parent/child.

Parent's mindless and crazy defensive mechanism, denying to be something different; OFTEN deny something that WORKS and trying to force deaf child to be part of norm.

Deaf schools not giving enough discipline, not giving enough pressure i.e. light homework, slow paced and what have you. Most teachers were (at my time) hearing, they have NO idea what it is like to be deaf. This reminds me of myself -- trying to understand autism until I watched "Temple Gradin" -- oh my oh my, the world in my mind turned completely upside down, finally made sense. It is about an Autistic PROFESSOR who struggled and succeed, introduced non autistic audience to HER WORLD. We should create a movie similar to that movie with DEAF PROFESSOR that might provide insights to deaf schools and parent of deaf child.

Majority of deaf children needs something of STRONG influence i.e. media for instance, something that can CHANGE the majority of deaf children.
 
LinuxGold said:
Looking back at the original post that created this thread and reviewing the hotly debate posts slowly derailing...

Majority is still that, majority of deaf population regardless of "My child doesn't do this..." psychology.

Things that we can't change are:

Parent's negligence to DO something with their deaf child, not willing to establish EFFECTIVE communication between parent/child.

Parent's mindless and crazy defensive mechanism, denying to be something different; OFTEN deny something that WORKS and trying to force deaf child to be part of norm.

Deaf schools not giving enough discipline, not giving enough pressure i.e. light homework, slow paced and what have you. Most teachers were (at my time) hearing, they have NO idea what it is like to be deaf. This reminds me of myself -- trying to understand autism until I watched "Temple Gradin" -- oh my oh my, the world in my mind turned completely upside down, finally made sense. It is about an Autistic PROFESSOR who struggled and succeed, introduced non autistic audience to HER WORLD. We should create a movie similar to that movie with DEAF PROFESSOR that might provide insights to deaf schools and parent of deaf child.

Majority of deaf children needs something of STRONG influence i.e. media for instance, something that can CHANGE the majority of deaf children.
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Well, it can be changed, but it takes a long time and a lot of effort. In the case of the parents, it takes a parent that is open-minded and child focused enough to want to change.

Re: the deaf professor: That is a great idea!!!
 
It can be changed.. open-mindness is what we need.

I personally feel this should be implemented in the registration when members register. "An open mind/heart is necessary to contribute in a healthy way in AllDeaf.com" otherwise the members that register will only come here to troll and throw the AD community in discord.

We've come a long way together and we've bonded as well. It's just not right and not fair for our community here to be thrown under the wheel so many times.
 
jillio said:
Advocate, advocate, advocate. Educate, educate, educate. Speak out anytime you see misperceptions.
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Plus a willingness to change oneself if necessary. That is the hardest part.
 
Beowulf said:
Plus a willingness to change oneself if necessary. That is the hardest part.
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Absolutely. People tend to think if they grow and broaden their perspectives, it somehow means that they have been "wrong" all the time prior. That is so untrue. It simply means that now that they have more information, they are learning a different way. It's growth. Just like a child that goes from reading single syllable words to multi-syllable words. Growth is a good thing.

I find it very frustrating when people just block out new information and refuse to incorporate it into their view.
 
jillio said:
Advocate, advocate, advocate. Educate, educate, educate. Speak out anytime you see misperceptions.
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United States have massive blood veins, complicated and very advanced. If you put a drop of medicine in the vein, it's gone somewhere in less than second. Advocating for something and won might be a drop in vein, but where are they now, long gone, out of memory, things went back into an eternal cycle.

We need to find stronger advocating tool that STICKS, something like chlorine cleaning detergent to a toilet bowl. Insert that device inside toilet bowl, you will see the blue detergent taking place in the bowl for a long while.

Our advocating tool should be like that, place it in Superior Vena Cava of the heart with LESS EFFORT, with heavily concentrated contents that will stay in the heart, leaking slowly into artery of heart, dissipating evenly throughout the nation. That way if we advocate, advocate, advocate, it will be seen EVERYWHERE.

What CAN be done to make THAT happen?
 
LinuxGold said:
United States have massive blood veins, complicated and very advanced. If you put a drop of medicine in the vein, it's gone somewhere in less than second. Advocating for something and won might be a drop in vein, but where are they now, long gone, out of memory, things went back into an eternal cycle.

We need to find stronger advocating tool that STICKS, something like chlorine cleaning detergent to a toilet bowl. Insert that device inside toilet bowl, you will see the blue detergent taking place in the bowl for a long while.

Our advocating tool should be like that, place it in Superior Vena Cava of the heart with LESS EFFORT, with heavily concentrated contents that will stay in the heart, leaking slowly into artery of heart, dissipating evenly throughout the nation. That way if we advocate, advocate, advocate, it will be seen EVERYWHERE.

What CAN be done to make THAT happen?
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Change the toilet. The old ones used to require 7 gallons per flush, and today we use about three gallons per flush. Still a lot of water being wasted. Using a chlorine detergent means that the toilet was used and must be cleaned, hmmm. If you take a toilet, scrub it, boil it. steam it, it is a CLEAN toilet. Then someone comes up to it and we say, Mods, someone did a kaka! Then you tell the person to keep it down or the toilet will be locked. That affects the majority, especially those who are drinking black coffee and eating bran muffins. It is the human element that gets us into hot water all the time, dang.
Not sure if that was one of your points? :D
 
LinuxGold said:
United States have massive blood veins, complicated and very advanced. If you put a drop of medicine in the vein, it's gone somewhere in less than second. Advocating for something and won might be a drop in vein, but where are they now, long gone, out of memory, things went back into an eternal cycle.

We need to find stronger advocating tool that STICKS, something like chlorine cleaning detergent to a toilet bowl. Insert that device inside toilet bowl, you will see the blue detergent taking place in the bowl for a long while.

Our advocating tool should be like that, place it in Superior Vena Cava of the heart with LESS EFFORT, with heavily concentrated contents that will stay in the heart, leaking slowly into artery of heart, dissipating evenly throughout the nation. That way if we advocate, advocate, advocate, it will be seen EVERYWHERE.

What CAN be done to make THAT happen?
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For one thing, we are going to have to come together as a group with that purpose. I am reminded of the years immediately following DPN. We saw some wonderful changes for the deaf. I even saw some changes in educational approaches from administrators in public schools as a result. That mass protest really got people thinking and paying attention. But we got comfortable and rested our laurels on those changes, and slowly, surely, things have gone back the way they were prior to DPN.

Additionally, the CI industry is infusing everyone with their rhetoric; making claims that the research simply does not support and playing off hearing parent's fears for their child. I think we need to push every single hospital social worker where implants are done to contact a deaf mentor for the parents and arrange a meeting where they can see that a deaf person without a CI can live a full and satisfying life. This needs to be done as simply a presentation of alternatives.
 
Beowulf said:
Change the toilet. The old ones used to require 7 gallons per flush, and today we use about three gallons per flush. Still a lot of water being wasted. Using a chlorine detergent means that the toilet was used and must be cleaned, hmmm. If you take a toilet, scrub it, boil it. steam it, is it a CLEAN toilet. Then someone comes up to it and we say, Mods, someone did a kaka! Then you tell the person to keep it down or the toilet will be locked. That affects the majority, especially those who are drinking black coffee and eating bran muffins. It is the human element that gets us into hot water all the time, dang.
Not sure if that was one of your points? :D
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Love the metaphor!:P
 
jillio said:
No one is insisting that there is only one way. It is your dichotomous thinking that is getting in the way of you really understanding what is being said.:cool2:
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Then why did you specifically say that "oralism in any form does not help our children"? That would mean that the oral route does not help our children, therefore if you choose oralism, you are not helping deaf children. Which means if you want to help the children, you must choose something other than oralism.....
 
Beowulf said:
Change the toilet. The old ones used to require 7 gallons per flush, and today we use about three gallons per flush. Still a lot of water being wasted. Using a chlorine detergent means that the toilet was used and must be cleaned, hmmm. If you take a toilet, scrub it, boil it. steam it, it is a CLEAN toilet. Then someone comes up to it and we say, Mods, someone did a kaka! Then you tell the person to keep it down or the toilet will be locked. That affects the majority, especially those who are drinking black coffee and eating bran muffins. It is the human element that gets us into hot water all the time, dang.
Not sure if that was one of your points? :D
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LOL! What I meant is -- advocating something that REMAINS in an eternal effect from somewhere with STRONG influence, becomes a "standard of procedure" EVERYWHERE. Providing effective options to those who seek for help and providing support for parents who are so defiant to being "something different".
 
faire_jour said:
Then why did you specifically say that "oralism in any form does not help our children"? That would mean that the oral route does not help our children, therefore if you choose oralism, you are not helping deaf children. Which means if you want to help the children, you must choose something other than oralism.....
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Like I said before, they tend to be more POLITICAL than necessary.
 
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