Spelling words the way they sound (Oral habits)

Mountain Man said:
Please don't generalize. Some hearing folks are proficient spellers and some aren't, just as some Deaf folks are proficient spellers and some aren't.
Click to expand...

I think the deaf people tend to focus more on reading because for most of them, that's the only way to learn English. However, hearing people take for granted that they can hear English, and don't focus as much on reading. So I wouldn't be surprised if deaf people are better spellers than the hearing. Also knowing the word phonetically tends to confuse your spelling. Examples: hors d'oeuvres or rendezvous (I know they are french, but it was all I can think of at the moment.)

Sometimes I wonder if these mistakes would still apply for Spanish or another language where most, if not all, of the words are actually spelled what they sound like. We all know English sucks! :)
 
naisho said:
That's exactly what I was trying to start in my first post.. and you've noted even though they've already read your email address (or they should have), they still go and write it in the form most desirable to them.

Although names are a bad example to derive from, it's the MOST COMMON and obvious variant to draw this "pronunciation" thinking process from. A lot of hearing, or HOH people should have had a blunder or blooper with another's name. It's not a solid area to base my hypothesis this on, but like from your own name as you are aware people tend to spell it one way in particular, most closely with what they personally associate it the way they "feel" it should be, just as what I was trying to say about the pronunciation part of definitely-definately.

I have been called the same as well, as Vicky, Vicki and Vickie both as a (in feminine form) derogatory nickname in my childhood, and I have observed what you are describing. This is really all anecdotal until someone takes up the reins on the challenge in this project.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't think relying on a particular spelling for a name is so much a phonetic phenomenon, as it is one that has to do with heuristics. If we know someone with a certain name, we tend to spell it the way that person does because the schema we have for that name is the one that comes up when we hear it said. That is more of an experienced based cognitive process. Just like when you see the word chair, an image of a chair will come to mind. Everyone will have a chair come to mind, but the exact chair in our schema is dependent on our personal experience with chairs.
 
Mountain Man said:
Please don't generalize. Some hearing folks are proficient spellers and some aren't, just as some Deaf folks are proficient spellers and some aren't.
Click to expand...

Please don't tell me what to speak about until you know what I have observed over what period of time.

It is anecdotal evidence but my experience.

Actually don't ever tell me what to say.
 
Bottesini said:
Please don't tell me what to speak about until you know what I have observed over what period of time.

It is anecdotal evidence but my experience.

Actually don't ever tell me what to say.
Click to expand...

Ay dios mio! Ella tiene fuego!
 
deafskeptic said:
My real name is Ellen and a lot of hearing spell my name as Allen. I usually have to tell them my name begins with an e.
Click to expand...

You know what I thought, about the naming part? Not the person who hears it. The father/mother who determines their newborn's name.

Names are created by parents alone. They don't necessarily have to have a degree in english to write it "correctly" or a standardized way, I would not be surprised if some of them are naming their children the way they think it is pronounced, or orthographically legal when spelled. They are the source of why the child is named that in the first place. Obviously this doesn't apply to all as some parents maybe WANTED their child to be unique and gave them that special K over C, or extra letters in there.

Like say, Rudy. That's a general name. Some people might interpret it as Rudi or Rudie or even Rudii or Rudee OR Rudey to them depending on the way they themselves want to see it. Look at the Rudee form, this is definitely a phonetic thing where they used two ee's to substitute for the ie / y sound.

Just another :2c: to toss in.
 
Still say it has more to do with heuristics and schemas than with phonetics when you are talking about proper names, or nicknames, as in "Rudy".
 
How about this perspective. Daredevel's idea about spanish gave me an idea about Chinese, one that I am accustomed to, being of Asian-american descent.
Note that I am not saying at all, that this the conclusion to it. I am just drawing more ideas into this discussion, which I'm really finding interesting so far.

We all know names in Chinese written in english are one of the hardest things in the world for most foreigners with their tongues to pronounce. Some of them aren't even phonetically reasonable UNLESS you have a background of chinese yourself, then you can see why it is written the way it is.

When you say some of the following surnames in english:

Wang - this is really supposed to be said as WOH-ONG, not wa-ng they commonly mispronounce in english. The correct way should've been written as Wong.
Chang - there is actually no C sound, it's really a Z
Huang - not too sure on this one. Phonetically its supposed to be like Huu-wong.
Chou - same as chang, Z instead of C. It should phonetically be said like zh-oh
Hsiao (Xiao) - this is pronounced as shi-ow
Hsien - Really no H sound, it's more like Shi-en
Ching - hopefully most people get this right
Le - Some may think this is Li or Lee, but it's actually "luh"

I won't even get started on first names, that's like tier2 that you start to see more errors in.
When I observe non-native foreigners try to pronounce any asian name, they usually get it wrong because they try to pronounce it in the way they see it written to them in english. Ask any guy with a hard to pronounce asian name, I'm sure they will have a story to share with you shaking their heads in the process of storytelling.

Honestly, I already know the legal reasons to why Chinese in English form isn't the most accurate way of saying them phonetically. That is why there is a system tailored specifically for chinese-english language interactions.

This just goes to show that in english, others realize sometimes they mispell what they are saying.
 
naisho said:
How about this perspective. Daredevel's idea about spanish gave me an idea about Chinese, one that I am accustomed to, being of Asian-american descent.
Note that I am not saying at all, that this the conclusion to it. I am just drawing more ideas into this discussion, which I'm really finding interesting so far.

We all know names in Chinese written in english are one of the hardest things in the world for most foreigners with their tongues to pronounce. Some of them aren't even phonetically reasonable UNLESS you have a background of chinese yourself, then you can see why it is written the way it is.

When you say some of the following surnames in english:

Wang - this is really supposed to be said as WOH-ONG, not wa-ng they commonly mispronounce in english.
Chang - there is actually no C sound, it's really a Z
Huang - not too sure on this one
Chou - same as chang, Z instead of C. It should phonetically be said like zh-oh
Hsiao (Xiao) - this is pronounced as shi-ow
Hsien - Really no H sound, it's more like Shi-en
Ching - hopefully most people get this right
Le - Some may think this is Li or Lee, but it's actually "luh"

I won't even get started on first names, that's like tier2 that you start to see more errors in.
When I observe non-native foreigners try to pronounce any asian name, they usually get it wrong because they try to pronounce it in the way they see it written to them in english. Ask any guy with a hard to pronounce asian name, I'm sure they will have a story to share with you shaking their heads in the process of storytelling.

Honestly, I already know the legal reasons to why Chinese in English form isn't the most accurate way of saying them phonetically. That is why there is a system tailored specifically for chinese-english language interactions.

This just goes to show that in english, others realize sometimes they mispell what they are saying.
Click to expand...

Now you are talking about the sounds specific to a language that an infant acquires from birth. All infants are born with the capacity for all sounds in all languages. With time, the brain retains only those that are specific to their native language. That is why it is so difficult to speak a language like a native if one has not acquired it from birth, and why accents are so ingrained when speaking a foreign language, such as English spoken with a Chinese accent. That is a completely different topic.
 
True. Even deaf babies can babble literally every sound from every language possible in the world. Isn't that amazing?

Through sounds, babies (hearing, obviously) lose the sounds from languages they do not hear in their surroundings and retain the languages they hear.

Unfortunately, this tidbit doesn't pertain to spelling habits...as different parts of the brain deals with speech, speech recongition, and spelling. ; )
 
deafbajagal said:
True. Even deaf babies can babble literally every sound from every language possible in the world. Isn't that amazing?

Through sounds, babies (hearing, obviously) lose the sounds from languages they do not hear in their surroundings and retain the languages they hear.

Unfortunately, this tidbit doesn't pertain to spelling habits...as different parts of the brain deals with speech, speech recongition, and spelling. ; )
Click to expand...

Nope, that is an innate capacity, and what naisho is discussing is learned behaviors and learning strategies. Quite unconnected. But fascinating, none the less. At least to me. LOL.
 
I tend to spell words the way I hear them. And being HOH... I do not know if that is a good thing, or not, :lol:

I have to admit. I am a horrible speller.
 
Bottesini said:
Please don't tell me what to speak about until you know what I have observed over what period of time.

It is anecdotal evidence but my experience.

Actually don't ever tell me what to say.
Click to expand...
So you really think your generalized statement is accurate? That all hearing people are poor spellers? I appreciate that you've had your own experiences, but to apply those experiences to an entire group of people seems grossly unfair.

By the way, I appreciate your ability to discuss our disagreements in a civil manner. Thank you. :)
 
Daredevel7 said:
I wouldn't be surprised if deaf people are better spellers than the hearing. Also knowing the word phonetically tends to confuse your spelling.
Click to expand...
It would be an interesting study, wouldn't it, to see if statistically speaking Deaf people are better spellers than hearing, although there are many variables that would need to be considered.
 
Mountain Man said:
It would be an interesting study, wouldn't it, to see if statistically speaking Deaf people are better spellers than hearing, although there are many variables that would need to be considered.
Click to expand...

Oh, it's already been done if you read through with the whole topic. A study conducted by two professionals with that as the purpose of seeing if deaf ignore the phonetic spelling (orthographic) rules.

If you didn't see it, it's somewhere in posts #80-90.
 
naisho said:
Case 1
For one example, the word definitely is spelled definitely, correct? Do you tend to notice that some people spell it as definately?

Obviously when spoken in pronunciation form, it sounds as if there is an "a" where it is in the incorrect spelling, as definitely is literally pronounced "deaf-a-nate-ley", in my mind. Some others pronounce it as, "deaf-nate-ley"

What do you think?
Click to expand...

I can say on this one... I know I'm probably one of your 'suspects' b/c w/my southern accent I would most likely pronounce it 'deaf-n-ate-ley' so when I'm typing I have to REALLLLLLLLY concentrate to remember it's spelled different then how I 'hear' it... (because I KNOW I spell it incorrectly I will even go around that word so I don't have to use it -- by using other phrases in it's place~ most commonly-- I'll use 'most certainly')

And like one poster said sometimes she spells things wrong b/c she doesn't use spell check here-- I dont either and I'm usually typing on the fly, but if I notice it later I'll go back and fix it... however definitely is a problem for me b/c on autopilot I'll spell it as I hear it~~ I'm sorry :( :( :cry:
 
I don't mean to nitpick, but the phrase "most certainly" is an oxymoron. The word "most" isn't necessary to describe the word "certainly."

Or am I wrong?? :scratch:
 
Back
Top