Is it ever ok for kids NOT to use ASL?

[shel90]

Honestly, sometimes, I feel like some Deaf people are against CI's because they think they don't work. The problem is that they do work, and they work very well. Parents are lulled in to thinking they don't need ASL because the kids do so well without it. We want Miss Kat to continue with ASL because we believe that she will need it in the future. She will need interpreters for high school and college, or maybe big meetings she will go to. And the only way to use an interpreter is to know ASL!

U would have to ask whoever said that to you directly. I think those ADers who are against CIs wont speak up here cuz of all the wars about them years ago.

 

[faire_jour]

U would have to whoever said that to you directly. I think those ADers who are against CIs wont speak up here cuz of all the wars about them years ago.

I'm just musing. No one has directly said that to me.

 

[Babyblue]

Honestly, sometimes, I feel like some Deaf people are against CI's because they think they don't work. The problem is that they do work, and they work very well. Parents are lulled in to thinking they don't need ASL because the kids do so well without it. We want Miss Kat to continue with ASL because we believe that she will need it in the future. She will need interpreters for high school and college, or maybe big meetings she will go to. And the only way to use an interpreter is to know ASL!

Some deaf people are against it and some are not. Gotta look on the bright side. You are Miss Kat's mom. Do not allow others to doubt what you are doing is wrong. You have taught and learned ASL as well to teach her to speak. Nothing wrong with what you are doing.

Hearing people and others are probably telling you the opposite of what some deaf are telling you. "Don't sign" or she will not learn to talk! etc..

But you are doing the best thing for your child..

You are exposing her to two languages.

Wonderful thing.

 

[shel90]

Some deaf people are against it and some are not. Gotta look on the bright side. You are Miss Kat's mom. Do not allow others to doubt what you are doing is wrong. You have taught and learned ASL as well to teach her to speak. Nothing wrong with what you are doing.

Hearing people and others are probably telling you the opposite of what some deaf are telling you. "Don't sign" or she will not learn to talk! etc..

But you are doing the best thing for your child..

You are exposing her to two languages.

Wonderful thing.

I agree...

Every parent is always going to be criticized by someone for what they do with their child....

only thing I am just mostly concerned with is that deaf children have full access to language, communication, and information just like hearing children have.

 

[dreama]

Let me put it this way; the way I see it.

How much does the safety of your child concern you?

The criminal mind looks for easy victims who cannot defend themselves or be able to describe what has been done to them. This is one reason you never leave a young, pre-lingual child unsupervised.

The sooner a child acquires language the safer it is.

The fastest language any child, hearing or deaf, can acquire is ASL.

Good post!

 

[dreama]

Neither you nor I have been a young CI user, mildly hoh, or post lingually deafened, so don't pretend that your opinion is more insightful than mine.

I was born mildly HOH. I wish I had been exposed to sign language from the very beginning.

When my hearing deteriated I struggled if the teacher did not write everything on the blackboard.

 

[Berry]

Ah.. but im talking about L1 language. The language that you start with. Some people think that a deaf person learning ASL then English is the same thing as a hearing person learning Spanish then English. I think it's a different situation given the uniqueness of how a deaf person acquires language.

Obviously, the more languages you know, the better. I was thinking in terms of during the period of acquring language, not post lingually

.

I also find it interesting that when very young d/Deaf children and languages are concerned there is always a discussion of which language is learned first, second, etc, much as you would discuss adults who learn languages sequentially.

Yet when very young hearing children are discussed the terms "crib languages" is used and it is taken for granted they can learn two, three, or more simultaneously as though they were all "L1" native languages.

Sharon Newman Solow discussed how her 9 month old baby would cry to get her attention, but would nudge her Deaf mother to get her attention. At nine months old she already understood two modes of communication, one to momma, another to gramma.

I once met an 11 year old girl who could speak English, Spanish, Punjabi, and Chinese. I'll bet she did not have a clue which one was her "native" tongue.

 

[dreama]

If a person said that all profoundly deaf children should be given a CI, or be required to use hearing aids, or must have speech or listening therapy, or lipreading training, people would be outraged. Why is it ok the other way? Why is anything REQUIRED for all deaf or hoh kids? Shouldn't they be individuals?

sign language is the basis of communication for deaf people. So is reading and writing.

If you asked if it was neccessary for a child to be illiterate, would you be surprised if everyone said no? Sure an illiterate child can survive same as a speaking deaf child can survive but they miss out. so it is neccessary.

CI/HA, tactile aids, or cued speech are just a method of introducing a child to speech but that should come 3rd. Signing and literacy are more important.

 

[deafdyke]

If hearing people want to force deaf parents to teach their children oral skills, then go for it. I do not have deaf children..


Many deaf parents do provide hearing aids and speech classes for the deaf children to see if they develop oral skills or not.

Yes, matter of fact, I think the percentage of Sign onliers is VERY small. Very few DODAs are Deaf seperatist...I think it's small enough to be less then 5% of the Deaf population.
If a Deaf parent posted here, I would encourage them to try hearing aids and CIs and oral training.
And yes, being oral doesn't mean that a kid magically melds into the greater society. It's very ironic. On oral deaf boards and things, you'll see a lot of posts by kids who were oral deaf and say things like " I never felt accepted socially" " I was always a loner" etc etc. Yet they yap on and on about how wonderful being Oral deaf is.

 

[Giulia]

faire_jour, I think it should be case by case. Of course we should give sign language to a child, but if he refuses to use it ? For me, if a child refuses to use sign language, it's no big deal !! He has a tool so he may or not use it.

Okay, I add my 2 cents but I have only unilateral deafness, so my opinion can be biaised.
I have been raised in a multilingual environment. Dad's wife is American, and because I had and still have difficult relationships with her, I refused to work in English at school and even to use it. But now, I discover again the pleasure to use the English language, to write and to learn this language.

 

[Daredevel7]

Yet when very young hearing children are discussed the terms "crib languages" is used and it is taken for granted they can learn two, three, or more simultaneously as though they were all "L1" native languages.

Sharon Newman Solow discussed how her 9 month old baby would cry to get her attention, but would nudge her Deaf mother to get her attention. At nine months old she already understood two modes of communication, one to momma, another to gramma.

I once met an 11 year old girl who could speak English, Spanish, Punjabi, and Chinese. I'll bet she did not have a clue which one was her "native" tongue.

Is the above statement common? Can a deaf one truly learn how to do ASL and speaking at the same time? If so, how common is it?

Are you saying a deaf child can easily acquire multiple languages as well as a hearing child? Personally, I don't believe so. Just because it happens does not mean it's easy for the majority.

A deaf girl I know was raised orally, but her mother taught her Spanish first instead of English because that is the norm in the Spanish culture in America. They teach children Spanish first then English before going off to school. Fast forward 20 years later, she still has a hard time with English......There's a lot to be said about L1 language.

 

[shel90]

Is the above statement common? Can a deaf one truly learn how to do ASL and speaking at the same time? If so, how common is it?

Are you saying a deaf child can easily acquire multiple languages as well as a hearing child? Personally, I don't believe so. Just because it happens does not mean it's easy for the majority.

A deaf girl I know was raised orally, but her mother taught her Spanish first instead of English because that is the norm in the Spanish culture in America. They teach children Spanish first then English before going off to school. Fast forward 20 years later, she still has a hard time with English......There's a lot to be said about L1 language.

U cant use one child as an example...

I know several deaf people who learned other languages in the countries they were born in and were still able to master English. Heck, one deaf guy who is an college English professor was born in Peru...he learned the sign language there (he was from a deaf family), read and wrote in Spanish, moved to America...learned ASL and then learned to read and write in English...now, he is going for his PhD.

 

[jillio]

Let me put it this way; the way I see it.

How much does the safety of your child concern you?

The criminal mind looks for easy victims who cannot defend themselves or be able to describe what has been done to them. This is one reason you never leave a young, pre-lingual child unsupervised.

The sooner a child acquires language the safer it is.

The fastest language any child, hearing or deaf, can acquire is ASL.

Well said. It all boils down to your priorities. Are your priorities oral language only in any circumstance, or is your priority the safety, well being, psychological, social, academic, and intellectual development of your child?

 

[Mrs Bucket]

Well said. It all boils down to your priorities. Are your priorities oral language only in any circumstance, or is your priority the safety, well being, psychological, social, academic, and intellectual development of your child?

Well said.

This is where the parents need to ask themselves..

"Am I worried about my child's needs or am I worried about what others think about my choices?"

 

[jillio]

I also find it interesting that when very young d/Deaf children and languages are concerned there is always a discussion of which language is learned first, second, etc, much as you would discuss adults who learn languages sequentially.

Yet when very young hearing children are discussed the terms "crib languages" is used and it is taken for granted they can learn two, three, or more simultaneously as though they were all "L1" native languages.

Sharon Newman Solow discussed how her 9 month old baby would cry to get her attention, but would nudge her Deaf mother to get her attention. At nine months old she already understood two modes of communication, one to momma, another to gramma.

I once met an 11 year old girl who could speak English, Spanish, Punjabi, and Chinese. I'll bet she did not have a clue which one was her "native" tongue.

Absolutely. We have known for quite some time that children are capable of learning languages cummulatively when exposed to such during the prime periods for language acquisition. It is also well known that when exposed to languages in this manner, a child will develop native fluency in all. They will also, as you described above, use these langauges approriately in different situations, code switching effortlessly as the situation demands.

Why so many refuse to capitalize on this amazing language acquisition ability in infants and young children is beyond me.

 

[jillio]

faire_jour, I think it should be case by case. Of course we should give sign language to a child, but if he refuses to use it ? For me, if a child refuses to use sign language, it's no big deal !! He has a tool so he may or not use it.

Okay, I add my 2 cents but I have only unilateral deafness, so my opinion can be biaised.
I have been raised in a multilingual environment. Dad's wife is American, and because I had and still have difficult relationships with her, I refused to work in English at school and even to use it. But now, I discover again the pleasure to use the English language, to write and to learn this language.

And we also need to consider the fact that simply because a child is not using sign expressively does not mean that they aren't continuing to use it receptively.

 

[jillio]

Well said.

This is where the parents need to ask themselves..

"Am I worried about my child's needs or am I worried about what others think about my choices?"

Unfortunately, it seems to be the latter in far too many cases.

 

[jillio]

Is the above statement common? Can a deaf one truly learn how to do ASL and speaking at the same time? If so, how common is it?

Are you saying a deaf child can easily acquire multiple languages as well as a hearing child? Personally, I don't believe so. Just because it happens does not mean it's easy for the majority.

A deaf girl I know was raised orally, but her mother taught her Spanish first instead of English because that is the norm in the Spanish culture in America. They teach children Spanish first then English before going off to school. Fast forward 20 years later, she still has a hard time with English......There's a lot to be said about L1 language.

My son managed to acquire ASL and English simultaneously. And many of his deaf friends managed the same task. It is all about environment. Provide a child with a bi-lingual environment, and the child will acquire the languages contained in that environment simultaneously.

 

[Daredevel7]

U cant use one child as an example...

I know several deaf people who learned other languages in the countries they were born in and were still able to master English. Heck, one deaf guy who is an college English professor was born in Peru...he learned the sign language there (he was from a deaf family), read and wrote in Spanish, moved to America...learned ASL and then learned to read and write in English...now, he is going for his PhD.

If Berry can do it, why can't I do it!? It's just not fair! *sobs*

obviously I know you can't use one child as an example. All I am saying is thinking that ASL as a L1 language couldn't possibly hold back ANY given deaf/HoH back is just not realistic.

 

[faire_jour]

Unfortunately, it seems to be the latter in far too many cases.

Hmmmm, That is interesting because I have never met a single parent who made a choice because of what others would think of them.
They do it because they think it is best for their child.